Armstrong documentary

Nice work MJ... keeping the forum up to date with the lastest news ! You're the man ! 😎

MJtje said:

Oke as I posted on another thread the documentary can be found here:

nos.nllancearmstrondocu.htmlOpen ↗

Click on the right part of the page for the interview.

It's partly dutch, and his old teamboss hennie kuiper, dekker, boogerd, bruyneel, some belgian mechanic and ofcourse lance talkes a lot.

Boogerd and dekker are talking about their victories against lance in the amstel.

Boogerd had a funny story that armstrong was soooo driven in 1999 during the amstel, because he just came back after he had cancer. Boogerd wasn't allowed to ride.....and (quote boogerd) 'the one [censored] came after the other [censored] from lance he asked me a couple of times will you pleaaaaaaaaaaaase ride with me.....but after some time lance just stopped and just rode us two to the finish. 'LA was disappointed that he lost, but not mad at me. He said you will pay me back later in july'.

And as WBT allready said in another thread Hein revealed that LA gives money to the UCI to fight against doping. He also said that they wanted to buy a new machine for bloodsamples, but they couldn't afford it. LA gave money to buy it.

whiteboytrash said:

Nice work MJ... keeping the forum up to date with the lastest news ! You're the man ! 😎

I'm having trouble viewing this video. Every several seconds, it pauses and re-buffers, which takes several seconds. It is really annoying, along with the language barrier problem. Is anyone else have this problem, and is there a way to fix it?

Thanks!

Whiteboy: This ain't news. It is pre-race promotional spin. All sugar coated. I assume you mean keep up more amusing spin?

If Lance were anti-doping he could let Don Catlin test the [censored] out of him at "no charge' and call his bluff for a 'certified base-line bill of health' Then subsequent tests can be compared for variances.

He also would not critize [censored] Pound and WADA.

He would also help his ex-teammates who are still sick.

He would also never have hired Michele Ferrari (10+ years) NEVER.

It's all just a financial/imagery game of appearances.

whiteboytrash said:

Nice work MJ... keeping the forum up to date with the lastest news ! You're the man ! 😎

Flyer have you watched the last 2 minutes of the interview you would like that part. Go watch!

Flyer said:

Whiteboy: This ain't news. It is pre-race promotional spin. All sugar coated. I assume you mean keep up more amusing spin?

If Lance were anti-doping he could let Don Catlin test the [censored] out of him at "no charge' and call his bluff for a 'certified base-line bill of health' Then subsequent tests can be compared for variances.

He also would not critize [censored] Pound and WADA.

He would also help his ex-teammates who are still sick.

He would also never have hired Michele Ferrari (10+ years) NEVER.

It's all just a financial/imagery game of appearances.

Well the language barrier I can't help you with. And as far as the buffering goes I have ADSL sooooo that's fast internet. If you have that it's no prob!

Oke for you very fast update what is said in dutch:
-Boogerd, dekker talk about there wins in amstel
-Hein verbruggen reveals (although it was allready earlier in the press) that armstrong payed for a bloodmachine
-Hennie kuiper talks about armstrong, how he is always sooooo motivated.

spokeking said:

I'm having trouble viewing this video. Every several seconds, it pauses and re-buffers, which takes several seconds. It is really annoying, along with the language barrier problem. Is anyone else have this problem, and is there a way to fix it?

Thanks!

MJtje said:

As far as the buffering goes I have ADSL sooooo that's fast internet. If you have that it's no prob!

Oke for you very fast update what is said in dutch:
-Hein verbruggen reveals (although it was already earlier in the press) that armstrong payed for a bloodmachine

I have ADSL also, still having problems. This bloodmachine that they refer to, is it for blood doping?

Here is what Hein verbruggen said in that interview:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

spokeking said:

I have ADSL also, still having problems. This bloodmachine that they refer to, is it for blood doping?

Here is what former USPO Team doctor Dr. Prentice Steffen said about Lance Armstrong in today's San Francisco Chronicle.

'the whole Armstrong persona is fiction'

'I don't think the cancer changed him. It's a nice story, but it's fiction. It's marketing.'

There is more, good & bad from the article.

sfgate.comarticle.cgiOpen ↗

As for so-called drug testing---it worthless other than for a PR 'keeping up appearances' purpose;

See what Don Catlin says (WADA certified Lab Director at UCLA)

outside.away.comdrugs in sports 1.htmlOpen ↗

He does propose a reasonable solution, however.

MJtje said:

Here is what Hein verbruggen said in that interview:

cyclingnews.comnews.phpOpen ↗

Flyer said:

Here is what former USPO Team doctor Dr. Prentice Steffen said about Lance Armstrong in today's San Francisco Chronicle.

'the whole Armstrong persona is fiction'

'I don't think the cancer changed him. It's a nice story, but it's fiction. It's marketing.'

Let me get this straight, according to Dr. Steffen (a doctor who was fired from Postal BTW)

(1) Lance came back from cancer and...

(2) Instead of improving by losing 15lbs of upper body weight through chemotherapy, improved his performance by doping and...

(3) Managed to win 6 straight Tours, while never getting caught for doping, even though he has been "under the microscope" more than any other cyclist/athlete ever known???

Lets assume for a moment that this Dr. Steffen is right, which I find highly doubtful and just another case of sour grapes.

Why wouldn't his competitors be using the same doping methods, putting them on the same level as Lance???

Should we assume that Postal/Discovery is the only team with access and methods for doping without detection???

Either way, Lance is at a totally different level than anyone else in cycling. I say it's from a combination of the weight loss, extreme dedication, discipline, motivation, methodical training techniques, coupled with the a mental toughness rarely seen in mere mortals!

And, I say this Doctor Steffen is full of [censored]!

I caught out yet another novice LA fan. Gotta read the link before blowing your cover with your erroneous trash talk.

I love how your conclusions are supported by your warped bias----you NEVER read the article did you???

Dr. Prentice Steffen was referring to Lance's attitude and character---not his body transformation under the chemo and Michele Ferrari's anabolic rebuild.

He did not believe Lance's character changed whatsoever. (nice guy vrs bad guy image)

btw: Ferrari has now been convicted of malpractice for doping recommendation of other athletes. (October 2004)

We know you are a LA fan--which explains why you ignore the truth re: sick junior teammates, convicted blood doping doctor/trainer, Actovegin & Insulin discoveries and admissions and the growing list of 'jealous liars"; Greg Lemond, Emma O'Reilly, Stephen Swart, Mike Anderson, SCA Event Insurance, David Walsh, The London Times, Filippo Simeoni, Christopher Bassons, et al.....

Maybe the doctor is 100% correct and you are wrong!

Insofar as the way of the competitive world:
Doping is an arms race. Not all dopers are equal. Success and money get the best research drugs and methods. (NONE OF WHICH is tested) see Don Catlin's interview.

Few get Ferrari's help (he is super expensive) or have pharmaceutical industry friends.

Next time aim before firing.

spokeking said:

Let me get this straight, according to Dr. Steffen (a doctor who was fired from Postal BTW)

(1) Lance came back from cancer and...

(2) Instead of improving by losing 15lbs of upper body weight through chemotherapy, improved his performance by doping and...

(3) Managed to win 6 straight Tours, while never getting caught for doping, even though he has been "under the microscope" more than any other cyclist/athlete ever known???

Lets assume for a moment that this Dr. Steffen is right, which I find highly doubtful and just another case of sour grapes.

Why wouldn't his competitors be using the same doping methods, putting them on the same level as Lance???

Should we assume that Postal/Discovery is the only team with access and methods for doping without detection???

Either way, Lance is at a totally different level than anyone else in cycling. I say it's from a combination of the weight loss, extreme dedication, discipline, motivation, methodical training techniques, coupled with the a mental toughness rarely seen in mere mortals!

And, I say this Doctor Steffen is full of [censored]!

Flyer said:

Dr. Prentice Steffen was referring to Lance's attitude and character---not his body transformation under the chemo and Michele Ferrari's anabolic rebuild.

He did not believe Lance's character changed whatsoever. (nice guy vrs bad guy image)

and the growing list of 'jealous liars"; Greg Lemond, et al.....

Next time aim before firing.

Ok, let me aim this one! What does Lance's attitude, pre, post, during, etc, have to do with his performance as a cyclist. We were talking about doping. I've never said he was a nice guy, although I did meet him one time, and he was as friendly as could be to me. He's the greatest cyclist's of our generation, and along with that can come great ego's. Sue him! I went to the US Open last weekend, and Tiger Woods was the biggest [censored] I've ever met! That doesn't take away the fact that he's one of the best golfers to ever play the game!

Even if he is a "mean" person, as you maintain, the fact that he has taken a lousy situation (getting cancer), and started an organization to help people fight and treat it, shows that he has a good heart. I believe him when he says it changed his life. My sister died of cancer when she was 30 years old. I know first hand how this disease can change a person's perspective on things.

How would Greg Lemond (someone I used to admire, until he made a complete ass out of himself by making accusations without any proof) know Lance was doping? He's just mad because his career was cut short. More sour grapes. If you don't have proof, STFU!

I have friends that do drugs, and other things I don't approve of, does that make me a user by association?

I would assume that people such as: Emma O'Reilly, Greg Lemond, Stephen Swartz, Prentice Steffen and Mike Anderson are in a much better position than a fan--to understand doping.

They also know LA and his Michele Ferrari lead posse.

You do not.

Perhaps we ought to consider that they have a point.

spokeking said:

Ok, let me aim this one! What does Lance's attitude, pre, post, during, etc, have to do with his performance as a cyclist. We were talking about doping. I've never said he was a nice guy, although I did meet him one time, and he was as friendly as could be to me. He's the greatest cyclist's of our generation, and along with that can come great ego's. Sue him! I went to the US Open last weekend, and Tiger Woods was the biggest [censored] I've ever met! That doesn't take away the fact that he's one of the best golfers to ever play the game!

Even if he is a "mean" person, as you maintain, the fact that he has taken a lousy situation (getting cancer), and started an organization to help people fight and treat it, shows that he has a good heart. I believe him when he says it changed his life. My sister died of cancer when she was 30 years old. I know first hand how this disease can change a person's perspective on things.

How would Greg Lemond (someone I used to admire, until he made a complete ass out of himself by making accusations without any proof) know Lance was doping? He's just mad because his career was cut short. More sour grapes. If you don't have proof, STFU!

I have friends that do drugs, and other things I don't approve of, does that make me a user by association?

Flyer have you allready watched the last 2 minutes of the interview............little sarcastic! (and who knows maybe true)

Flyer said:

I would assume that people such as: Emma O'Reilly, Greg Lemond, Stephen Swartz, Prentice Steffen and Mike Anderson are in a much better position than a fan--to understand doping.

They also know LA and his Michele Ferrari lead posse.

You do not.

Perhaps we ought to consider that they have a point.

MTtje:

I confess that I have not viewed the video you refer to. What was said?

However, I am always inclined to believe the words of industry insiders over uninformed fans--and the commercial persona's promoted to sell products.

Especially, when the industry insiders are Greg Lemond and backed up by so many others with absolutely nothing to gain except grief---including former junior teammates and admitted victims of forced injections (3-time National Champion Greg Strock and Erich Kaiter, sick--as well as Gerrik Latta and David Francis, not sick)

And especially when your blood doping expert is convicted of malpractice. (Ferrari in Oct. 2004)

These are not rumors or jealous lies. They are brutal facts and point directly to doping and deception.

And again----per Don Catlin---no tests are performed for unknown substances (research or designer drugs) NONE. and the EPO and T/E tests can be defeated too, despite the current test.

Never tested positive is meaningless!

Cheers, MJtje Happy 4th!

MJtje said:

Flyer have you allready watched the last 2 minutes of the interview............little sarcastic! (and who knows maybe true)

Flyer said:

MTtje:

I confess that I have not viewed the video you refer to. What was said?

However, I am always inclined to believe the words of industry insiders over uninformed fans--and the commercial persona's promoted to sell products.

Especially, when the industry insiders are Greg Lemond and backed up by so many others with absolutely nothing to gain except grief---including former junior teammates and admitted victims of forced injections (3-time National Champion Greg Strock and Erich Kaiter, sick--as well as Gerrik Latta and David Francis, not sick)

And especially when your blood doping expert is convicted of malpractice. (Ferrari in Oct. 2004)

These are not rumors or jealous lies. They are brutal facts and point directly to doping and deception.

And again----per Don Catlin---no tests are performed for unknown substances (research or designer drugs) NONE. and the EPO and T/E tests can be defeated too, despite the current test.

Never tested positive is meaningless!

Cheers, MJtje Happy 4th!

What I can't figure out is why you bother being a fan of this sport when you believe it's all doping. I mean you seem to believe this with all the fervor of someone who believes in ghosts or UFO's. Is this what it's all about? Are you the one who keeps seeing ghosts when we all don't? Have aliens invaded planet Earth? It gets kind of old hearing all these general unfounded rumors. Perhaps we should start up that doping thread again. There are many of us who don't like to keep reading about ghosts. We're tired of it.

What do ghosts have to do with injecting synthetic hormones into 16 and 17 years olds (Lance's teammates in 1990)----or into Tour de France competitors? Or AIS alumni?

We are not at the Disneyland's Haunted Mansion.

Get it through your skull--this is how elite sports are operated---and because you are unaware and unconcerned about it despite impressive public interviews by Greg Lemond, Don Catlin, Marco Pantani's life, Jesus Manzano, Philippe Gaumont--- whistleblowing makes doping disclosure ever more important and relevant.

As long as athletes continue to use illegal and undetectable drugs, doping will be a permanent discussion point.

Let's face it, doping and doping methods makes the greatest performance difference when natural athletes are only 1% different in talent. Michele Ferrari bases his entire practice on this notion.

btw: Nothing is more boring or tiresome than pretending that our heroic athletes are clean. Or that we should trust the commercial persona put forth by OLN and/or the sponsors. Shills for sales.

That's is just more theater of the absurd!

Asked and answered yet again!

gntlmn said:

What I can't figure out is why you bother being a fan of this sport when you believe it's all doping. I mean you seem to believe this with all the fervor of someone who believes in ghosts or UFO's. Is this what it's all about? Are you the one who keeps seeing ghosts when we all don't? Have aliens invaded planet Earth? It gets kind of old hearing all these general unfounded rumors. Perhaps we should start up that doping thread again. There are many of us who don't like to keep reading about ghosts. We're tired of it.

Wow you are living in a fools paradise, eh?

Michele Ferrari would appreciate your call advising him to renew his Italian medical license. He was under the impression it had been suspended.

Johan Museeuw can get that Director Job and salary now---not in another two years.

Marco Pantani can rise up from the dead.

Greg Strock & Erich Kaiter can resume normal lives, return to racing and win the Tur de France as, in your world are not ill. Never were. It was all just a jealous rumor.

Lance can take his corticosteroid TUE back from the 1999 TDF as it was unnecessary paperwork despite his never having yet won a Tour.

Lance can ignore the Actovegin & Insulin stories because the dossier was kept secret.

Lance can move back to Nice because the police promise not to harrass him.

Greg Lemond can kiss and make up.

Emma O'Reilly can return to Discovery with a big salary increase.

Prentice Steffen can return to work with Tyler Hamliton because, presumably he has found the error in his ways---and Tyler has too.

Mike Anderson can get that Trek franchise.

What you consider rumors are cold hard facts. Full of foundation.

So when you read 'EPO Lance' spray painted onto the mountain roads in this year's Tour ---do not be surprised.

Tous Dope!

[quote="gntlmn"]

It gets kind of old hearing all these general unfounded rumors.

Flyer said:

What do ghosts have to do with injecting synthetic hormones into 16 and 17 years olds (Lance's teammates in 1990)----or into Tour de France competitors? Or AIS alumni?

We are not at the Disneyland's Haunted Mansion.

Get it through your skull--this is how elite sports are operated---and because you are unaware and unconcerned about it despite impressive public interviews by Greg Lemond, Don Catlin, Marco Pantani's life, Jesus Manzano, Philippe Gaumont--- whistleblowing makes doping disclosure ever more important and relevant.

As long as athletes continue to use illegal and undetectable drugs, doping will be a permanent discussion point.

Let's face it, doping and doping methods makes the greatest performance difference when natural athletes are only 1% different in talent. Michele Ferrari bases his entire practice on this notion.

btw: Nothing is more boring or tiresome than pretending that our heroic athletes are clean. Or that we should trust the commercial persona put forth by OLN and/or the sponsors. Shills for sales.

That's is just more theater of the absurd!

Asked and answered yet again!

If doping is so rampant in sports and everyone is "pretending that our heroic athletes are clean" why do you consistently point the finger at LA? I havent read all your posts on here but the ones I have read mostly include LA doping issues. Do you feel the same about Barry Bonds and MLB, NFL, NBA etc? If doping is so rampant in cycling why dont you provide facts about all the other cyclists? Where are you from?

2 questions, try to answer them directly without ad hominum attacks or off-on-a-tangent tirades...for once.

1) If you are inclined to believe "industry insiders" why do always ignore the comments that claim Lance is clean?

2) How do you explain that none of the saved urine or blood of Lance that has been save for the last six years, tested and retested has not come up positive with all of the advances in testing?