A Lesson from Florida: It's Time for Regime Change!



And this has what to do with living in Florida or the S.W.?

"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]...
> To the Editor:
>
> The hurricanes in Florida teach an important lesson: there are some places
> where
> humans should not live! We are arrogant enough to believe that the entire
> Earth
> belongs to us, and that we have the right to go anywhere and do anything
> that we
> wish. But so far we haven't been smart enough to learn how to live
> sustainably.
>
> Humans can't live in Florida without massive aid from out of state. People
> in
> the desert Southwest can't survive without sucking whole rivers dry. Most
> Americans' lifestyles depend on a supply of fossil fuel from halfway
> around the
> world. And the ultimate in unsustainable living is space travel!
>
> George W. Bush's goal seems to be to prolong this profligate
> living-beyond-our-means as long as possible -- at least long enough for he
> and
> his rich friends to profit from it, and leave the nation holding the bag:
> the
> largest debt in our nation's history! For promoting nuclear weapons and
> the
> destruction of our environment, he represents the greatest living threat
> to life
> on Earth. We need to get rid of this usurper before he does any more
> damage!
> Please vote for John Kerry!
>
> For more information, see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
If you lot continue guzzeling oil at the rate you are most of Florida will
become a wild life sanctuary off limits to humans cos it will be under 2M of
sea water ! -desmodus
 
No it won't.


"DESMODUS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you lot continue guzzeling oil at the rate you are most of Florida
will
> become a wild life sanctuary off limits to humans cos it will be under 2M
of
> sea water ! -desmodus
>
>
 
On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:29:16 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
<[email protected]> wrote:

..On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:31 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..wrote:
..
..>The author must be mistaken. Only ALLIGATORS are native to Florida.
..
..You are mistaken. The American Crocodile is native to Florida, as well
..as other parts of the Americas. If you had the brains to know how to
..run a Google search, even you could find multiple authoritative
..sources that identify the American Crocodile as being indigenous or
..native to the Florida area. The alligator is not nearly as rare or as
..endangered as the American Crocodile.

I guess I was wrong about that (a first). I had heard long ago from a biologist
that only alligators are native to the U.S.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On 10 Sep 2004 17:06:02 -0700, [email protected] (**** Durbin) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
..
..> It's ALREADY unbearable, for the wildlife.
..
..The cardinals, chickadees, doves, and tufted titmice that live in my
..backyard don't find it unbearable. Neither does the possum that lives
..in the greenspace behind my house, or the squirrels that raid my bird
..feeders, or the armadillos that dig grubs in my yard, or the deer that
..eat my garden, or the flock of wild turkeys that lives in the woodlot
..next to Chiles High School, or the alligators in Lake Monkey Business
..in my subdivision, or the foxes that hunt rabbits in the power line
..easement up the street.

There are animals that TOLERATE the presence of humans, but most don't.

..**** Durbin
..Waiting for the hurricane in Tallahassee

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:16:48 -0700, Benjamin Flogged Daley
<[email protected]> wrote:

..I'm sorry, but who forced those people to live in Florida? I live in
..Southern California by my own choosing. I take the chances with
..earthquakes, but it was me who decided to continuing living in
..California after graduating from College.
..
..As it has been stated before, you live in the Bay area. It's also been
..stated that with current codes, you're living structure is safe. Okay,
..nice you're a betting man. What happens when the "Big" one happens and
..by chance, these structures that were built by code, aren't standing.
..
..About Bush and fossil fuels, well, the blame lies with both parties.
..That is a fact. I didn't see Clinton/Gore doing much in this matter.
..Carter had his renewable energy credits, which were good, but too bad
..there were contractors that jacked up their prices when these credits
..came in. Don't even talk about Kerry. He won't even admit that he owns
..a SUV-states that it belongs to the family. Come on, get real!!!
..
..Yea, it would be nice if we lived in a perfect societ. I'm a idealist
..too. But the facts are that reality is different. If we want to get
..off fossil fuels, we need to put more of a push into renewable energy
..and get back into NUCLEAR power. Yes, that awful "N" word. But it
..helps us get off the fossil fuels.
..
..It would be nice if San Diego had a light rail system going down the
..I-15 corridor (From the North County). I would jump on the chance to
..take that to work, but sadly, since I have to be at work at 5am, I
..drive my car. Much too early to ride my bike for me. Reality is
..different than what I want.

I wasn't aware that riding a bike is illegal before 5 am.

..Mike, being an idealist is nice, but it also can stress a person out
..when they can get others to follow their idealism. Reality wins.
..
..Ben Flogged Daley
..
[email protected]

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 18:05:22 -0700, "RickSL" <[email protected]> wrote:

..And this has what to do with living in Florida or the S.W.?

It's not sustainable. DUH!

.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:p[email protected]...
..> To the Editor:
..>
..> The hurricanes in Florida teach an important lesson: there are some places
..> where
..> humans should not live! We are arrogant enough to believe that the entire
..> Earth
..> belongs to us, and that we have the right to go anywhere and do anything
..> that we
..> wish. But so far we haven't been smart enough to learn how to live
..> sustainably.
..>
..> Humans can't live in Florida without massive aid from out of state. People
..> in
..> the desert Southwest can't survive without sucking whole rivers dry. Most
..> Americans' lifestyles depend on a supply of fossil fuel from halfway
..> around the
..> world. And the ultimate in unsustainable living is space travel!
..>
..> George W. Bush's goal seems to be to prolong this profligate
..> living-beyond-our-means as long as possible -- at least long enough for he
..> and
..> his rich friends to profit from it, and leave the nation holding the bag:
..> the
..> largest debt in our nation's history! For promoting nuclear weapons and
..> the
..> destruction of our environment, he represents the greatest living threat
..> to life
..> on Earth. We need to get rid of this usurper before he does any more
..> damage!
..> Please vote for John Kerry!
..>
..> For more information, see http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..>
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:44:42 -0400, "Birdman42" <[email protected]> wrote:

..It's plain to see. Some of you cannot live without Mikey, who is destined to
..become a usenet legend.

Already happened.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:44:42 -0400, "Birdman42" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> .It's plain to see. Some of you cannot live without Mikey, who is destined
> to
> .become a usenet legend.
>
> Already happened.

Actually,it was USNET KOOK!
The only place you will ever be a legend is in your own mind.
> ===
> SNIP <
 
OOPS, my bad, spelled usenet wrong, must fix mistake.
"Rosco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p585d.495550$M95.298156@pd7tw1no...
>
> "Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 05:44:42 -0400, "Birdman42" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> .It's plain to see. Some of you cannot live without Mikey, who is
>> destined to
>> .become a usenet legend.
>>
>> Already happened.
>
> Actually,it was USNET KOOK!
Should have read "Actually, it was USENET KOOK!"
> The only place you will ever be a legend is in your own mind.
>> ===
>> SNIP <
>
>
 
"Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:29:16 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:31 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
> .wrote:
> .
> .>The author must be mistaken. Only ALLIGATORS are native to Florida.
> .
> .You are mistaken. The American Crocodile is native to Florida, as well
> .as other parts of the Americas. If you had the brains to know how to
> .run a Google search, even you could find multiple authoritative
> .sources that identify the American Crocodile as being indigenous or
> .native to the Florida area. The alligator is not nearly as rare or as
> .endangered as the American Crocodile.
>
> I guess I was wrong about that (a first). I had heard long ago from a
> biologist
> that only alligators are native to the U.S.

Which leads one to wonder, just how much of your research and conclusions
are colored by such mistakes.
>
> ===
> SNIP <
 
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 06:38:33 GMT, "Rosco" <[email protected]> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
..news:[email protected]...
..> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 14:29:16 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
..> <[email protected]> wrote:
..>
..> .On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:37:31 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
..> .wrote:
..> .
..> .>The author must be mistaken. Only ALLIGATORS are native to Florida.
..> .
..> .You are mistaken. The American Crocodile is native to Florida, as well
..> .as other parts of the Americas. If you had the brains to know how to
..> .run a Google search, even you could find multiple authoritative
..> .sources that identify the American Crocodile as being indigenous or
..> .native to the Florida area. The alligator is not nearly as rare or as
..> .endangered as the American Crocodile.
..>
..> I guess I was wrong about that (a first). I had heard long ago from a
..> biologist
..> that only alligators are native to the U.S.
..
..Which leads one to wonder, just how much of your research and conclusions
..are colored by such mistakes.

No one has yet found a single error. You don't get a Ph.D. by making mistakes.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> There are animals that TOLERATE the presence of humans, but most don't.

Those are the ones that will flourish. The ones who can't tolerate
human presence or adapt to tolerate it will retreat to areas where
they can survive. What is critical is that those enclaves be
protected an be large enough to ensure sufficient population to
maintain genetic diversity or that the enclaves be connected to allow
interbreeding between the groups.

The question is how do we retrofit land ownership in America to
accomplish that? Let me give you a hypothical scenario. South
Florida has pockets of land that have a few Florida Panthers on them.
These areas are separated by orange groves or sugar cane fields.

Ideally, we would like to see these enclaves interconnected to prevent
inbreeding by the limited number of panthers that remain, but the
farmers are not willing to give up their land for an animal they have
never seen except in a zoo. How do we convince them that the land
should be set aside for the welfare of the animals? Big Sugar has
never been exactly altruistic when it comes to the environment.

**** Durbin
 
On 25 Sep 2004 11:05:25 -0700, [email protected] (**** Durbin) wrote in
message <[email protected]>:

>> There are animals that TOLERATE the presence of humans, but most don't.
>Those are the ones that will flourish...

Missed your opportunity ;-)

There are newsgroups that TOLERATE the presence of Vandemann, but most
don't.

alt.troll being the obvious exception.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University
 
On 25 Sep 2004, Mike Vandeman offered up this insight:

> .> I guess I was wrong about that (a first). I had heard long ago from
> a .> biologist
> .> that only alligators are native to the U.S.
> .
> .Which leads one to wonder, just how much of your research and
> conclusions .are colored by such mistakes.
>
> No one has yet found a single error. You don't get a Ph.D. by making
> mistakes.

Mike, you've been refuted on this before. You HAVE to make mistakes to get
a Ph.D. It's REQUIRED. It's how people learn. Which means one of two
things: a> you're not human, or b> you're incapable of learning.

Personally, I'm leaning towards 'b', but 'a' does have appeal.

--
__ __ _ ___ ___
/ _|/ _/ |_ _|_ _|
\_ ( (( o | | | |
|__/\__\_/|_| |_|

[email protected]
 
Mike Vandeman said:
No one has yet found a single error. You don't get a Ph.D. by making mistakes.
Click to expand...

If people get Ph.D's by not making mistakes, you must have stolen yours.
Because when you make a mistake you just ignore the response.

Your problem is that you think a piece of paper makes you perfect. You only have a Ph.D in psychology, yet medical doctors with far more schooling than you can make mistakes. Engineers that are smarter than you make mistakes.

Smart people have the ability to admit that they are wrong, and learn from their mistakes. You have no such ability.

And people with Ph.D's play golf.
 
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:07:52 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
>I wasn't aware that riding a bike is illegal before 5 am.


It's nice to see that Mike agreed with everything else I wrote.

Why I won't ride a bike that early? I don't want to be hit again. I'm
still suffered from the effects of a car vs bike (me) accident. The Dr
goes into my shoulder about every 4 years to clean it up-all related
to the accident.

Ben Flogged Daley

[email protected]
 
Mike Vandeman said:
To the Editor:

The hurricanes in Florida teach an important lesson: there are some places where
humans should not live! We are arrogant enough to believe that the entire Earth
belongs to us, and that we have the right to go anywhere and do anything that we
wish. But so far we haven't been smart enough to learn how to live sustainably.

Humans can't live in Florida without massive aid from out of state. People in
the desert Southwest can't survive without sucking whole rivers dry. Most
Americans' lifestyles depend on a supply of fossil fuel from halfway around the
world. And the ultimate in unsustainable living is space travel!

George W. Bush's goal seems to be to prolong this profligate
living-beyond-our-means as long as possible -- at least long enough for he and
his rich friends to profit from it, and leave the nation holding the bag: the
largest debt in our nation's history! For promoting nuclear weapons and the
destruction of our environment, he represents the greatest living threat to life
on Earth. We need to get rid of this usurper before he does any more damage!


Please vote for John Kerry!
Click to expand...
I'm not against Kerry, but i missed the part of his campaign where he said he would make people stop living in Florida or the desert. I missed the part where he said he was going to end our dependence on fossil fuels. (i've heard he as a fleet of SUV's). And I don't think he said he's against space travel (not sure on this one though).
MV said:

he (Bush) represents the greatest living threat to life
on Earth.
Click to expand...
Ok I have no argument against that one.
 
On 25 Sep 2004 11:05:25 -0700, [email protected] (**** Durbin) wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
..> There are animals that TOLERATE the presence of humans, but most don't.
..
..Those are the ones that will flourish. The ones who can't tolerate
..human presence or adapt to tolerate it will retreat to areas where
..they can survive.

What an idiot. There are no such areas left, since humans have commandeered
every square inch of the Earth. It is our moral obligation to make sure they
have areas where they can survive -- namely, human-free areas. That is required
by teh ESA.

What is critical is that those enclaves be
..protected an be large enough to ensure sufficient population to
..maintain genetic diversity or that the enclaves be connected to allow
..interbreeding between the groups.

Where are they? We have monopolized every area.

..The question is how do we retrofit land ownership in America to
..accomplish that? Let me give you a hypothical scenario. South
..Florida has pockets of land that have a few Florida Panthers on them.
..These areas are separated by orange groves or sugar cane fields.
..
..Ideally, we would like to see these enclaves interconnected to prevent
..inbreeding by the limited number of panthers that remain, but the
..farmers are not willing to give up their land for an animal they have
..never seen except in a zoo. How do we convince them that the land
..should be set aside for the welfare of the animals?

We don't have to convince them. Eminent domain will take care of that. We do it
for other government priorities.

Big Sugar has
..never been exactly altruistic when it comes to the environment.
..
..**** Durbin

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
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