4x4

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message ...

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4? And out of those that do, who uses
it off-road?

That's almost a troll type post on this Ng Paul! :-)

Anyway, I have two 4x4's, both LandRovers, and both
elderly (see sig). They are ancestors of the Defender and
van types and used to carry our muddy tools, rotivators
etc to and from our allotments, exactly what they were
designed for. So, yes, they do go off-road but only into
the muddy field that is our allotment site. I have on
occasion tried them along a local bumpy "Green Lane" just
to test them after I've carried out work. With wide road
tyres and sports suspension the BMW is useless off-road,
even on flat wet grass.

Tyres are the key to going off-road, with the right tyres
even some soft-roaders will do OK on the muddy stuff but
with road tyres, no chance.

As for which to choose as someone asked, if you want to go
seriously off-road then it has to be a LandRover Defender
and there are lots of goodies available to improve it's off-
road performance with better axle articulation etc. The 90"
is the best off-road because of it's shorter wheelbase, but
the 110" does a good job and is the one for long distance
travel, expeditions, as it's big enough for camping, roof
tents, etc. They are tough which is why the Army use so
many. Neither of these are as good on-road as the normal
schoolrun 4x4's but they do have "character" unlike a lot of
modern vehicles. Of course if you're rich and don't mind
them getting damaged the Range Rover and Disco are excellent
off-road too. Cheaper for day use is the Suzuki Jimmy or
whatever it's called, very light so doesn't get bogged down,
skims over the mud, but needs the right tyres. Watch the
rust though.

Of course if you really want to go barking mad and annoy
those ramblers how about a 101 Forward Control........
101fc.netindex.htmOpen ↗

Imagine that coming at you down the track with it's 3.5 V8
rumbling away!
--
Regards Bob

1974 S111. 2.25 petrol. "88" H/top 1987 90. 2.5 petrol.
H/top 1998 328i SE

Chris Morriss said:

They are an excellent small 4x4, and give me about 38mpg on
the road. They have the advantage that they are light with
good ground clearance, and they don't tear up the track
like some 2000kg monster does.

On the other hand, the high-revving petrol engine isn't
ideal for the really tough stuff, and they can be a drag if
you have to do a long road journey in them. MUCH better
than the old SJs of course as the Jimny has decent
leading/trailing arm suspension with coil springs.

Yes - the reports I've read are good. Nice price too! I
think I'd like something a bit bigger though.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4? And out of those that do, who uses
it off-road?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th
September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

YTup

Landcruiser - big and heavy but awesome build and great
motor (4.2TD)

Great on-road - driving position etc.. Use it off-road - on
fields and fellside almost every weekend - I often cruise
gently past other people staggering along and wait for them
at the top - lol

Then again - I also walk for miles athe weekends on the
felltops... - on my legs - phhhewww

Peter

"Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4? And out of those that do, who uses
it off-road?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th
September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

YTup

Landcruiser - big and heavy but awesome build and great
motor (4.2TD)

Great on-road - driving position etc.. Use it off-road - on
fields and fellside almost every weekend - I often cruise
gently past other people staggering along and wait for them
at the top - lol

Then again - I also walk for miles athe weekends on the
felltops... - on my legs - phhhewww

Peter

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:00:06 +0100, "Bob Hobden" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Imagine that coming at you down the track with it's 3.5 V8
rumbling away!

I want one!

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>,
Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bob Hobden said:

Imagine that coming at you down the track with it's 3.5 V8
rumbling away!

I want one!

So do I, but have you seen the fuel consumption!

Of course, the real professionals use a Unimog.
--
Chris Morriss

Chris Morriss said:

In message <[email hidden]>,
Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bob Hobden said:

Imagine that coming at you down the track with it's 3.5
V8 rumbling away!

I want one!

So do I, but have you seen the fuel consumption!

Of course, the real professionals use a Unimog.

I've got a copy of What 4x4? 2004 edition - the 'specialist'
vehicles reviewed are utterly amazing. The Unimog is
featured. £80000 with all the options!

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]-
spam.co.uk> writes

Quoted message said:

"Nicknelsonleeds" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

About once a month, as part of a voluntary woodland
management group in

Leeds.

Why can't the wood manage itself? How are you managing it?
For the benefits of wildlife? For the benefits of easy
access for people? For timber? Just asking because several
areas I see regularly have been semi cleared of trees and
undergrowth recently (ranging from churchyard, to
cycletrack, to pretty large wood managed by a wildlife
trust) and I can't see what the benefits are.

Clearing undergrowth lets in more light, encourages growth
of flowers etc., thereby enhancing the area for butterflies
and so on. Creating clearings increases diversity- many
species thrive on woodland margins rather than within denser
areas. Cheers Richard
--
Richard Evans (richard[at]ra.evans.clara.co.uk to reply
by e-mail)

Hi

I drive a 4x4 regularly and occasionally off road as an
assistant ranger in a national park.

Rob "Paul Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4? And out of those that do, who uses
it off-road?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th
September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4?

Yep I have a Landrover Discovery & access to 4 x LR 110
Defender Mountain Rescue Ambulances.

Quoted message said:

And out of those that do, who uses it off-road?

Yes in anger under Blues (MR) and also socially (Discovery)
when I get the chance.

dave

"Paul Rooney" wrote in message ... and Chris Morriss also
said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I want one!

So do I, but have you seen the fuel consumption!

Well the person to speak to is the guy that owns Grumble,
Martyn is his name, he has a club register of all the 101's
so should know if any decent ones are for sale. I've only
driven in one once, a GS model with an open back with side
seats in The Gambia. Seemed unstoppable despite the sandy
tracks etc and was surprisingly comfortable in the back
fully loaded. And that V8 does grumble. If you convert it to
LPG it's a lot cheaper to run I'm told and "green".

--
Regards Bob

Use a useful Screen Saver...
setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edusetiathome.ssl.berkeley.eduOpen ↗ and find intelligent
life amongst the stars

In a recent message
<[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guardian.co.uk0,3604,1189220Open ↗
,00.html

[...]

Quoted message said:

I saw that. I'm thinking of getting a 4x4 but I can't
decide which one
- there are so many of them! I do a modest amount of
walking too, so I can see both sides of the argument.

[...]

What did you think of the article, by the way? To me, it
looked like a very fair summing-up of where things stand
just at the moment. In the paper, of course, the article was
accompanied by an atrocity picture.

Regards, Nick.

--
Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England
<[email hidden]

In article <[email hidden]>,
Paul Rooney "]<URL:[email hidden]> wrote: [snip]

Quoted message said:

Why would someone want a 4x4? I think the answer has
something to do with not slipping off the road, being able
to tackle rather more than the average car can manage, and
yes - image comes into it I suppose. I've lost count of
the number of times I've smacked the underneath of my car
on bumps. I also fancy something with a bit more view - a
nice high driving position. Also something that can cope
with my mud and my family's horse mess. And long enough to
sleep in. I'm currently restricted to sleeping in lay bys
or on grass verges etc. It would be good to get a bit
further afield.

My suggestion for what you've put above is a Subaru Legacy
Outback. Essentially a soft-roader estate that has plenty of
room in the back, a reasonable ground clearance, and
reasonable off-road ability yet essentially retaining on-
road driving characteristics of a family estate car. You see
a lot of these in use in rural areas of the alps. If you're
not so interested in the length of the boot for sleeping
then I would recommend the car I drive which is a Subaru
Forester. All models of Subaru are very common in rural
areas of the Alps because of their ability to cope with snow
on steep winding mountain roads.

In the UK I only occasionally use mine "off-road" e.g. on
lanes and by-ways to access caves or huts, but I more
frequently encounter snow and difficult road conditions when
travelling in the Alps, particularly in winter. However for
me when selecting a vehicle I'd rather not compromise on-
road motorway cruising too much or ability to handle
standard A-roads or B-roads at cruising speeds, because
that's where I'm going to be spending most of the time in
the vehicle. Having travelled long distances on motorways in
friends vehicles such as the LR Discovery and LR 110 I know
which type of vehicle I prefer.

Mike
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A
mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \>
| immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/
(_) | \corn computer user"

In article <[email hidden]>, Nick Hopton

url=''URL:/url said:

In a recent message
<[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guardian.co.uk0,3604,1189220,Open ↗
00.html

[...]

Quoted message said:

I saw that. I'm thinking of getting a 4x4 but I can't
decide which one - there are so many of them! I do a
modest amount of walking too, so I can see both sides of
the argument.

[...]

What did you think of the article, by the way? To me, it
looked like a very fair summing-up of where things stand
just at the moment. In the paper, of course, the article
was accompanied by an atrocity picture.

The point about the increase in sales of 4x4s from 8,000 to
200,000 per year essentilly sums up the problem. Over 5
recent years your're now looking at about 1 million 4x4s in
use (That is almost one in every 10 families has a 4x4). You
don't need to have a very high percentage of inconsiderate
users to generate quite frequent problems.

Mike <URL:http://www.path.cam.ac.uk/~mrc7/>
--
o/ \\ // |\ ,_ o Mike Clark <\__,\\ // __o | \ / /\, "A
mountain climbing, cycling, skiing, "> || _`\<,_ |__\ \>
| immunology lecturer, antibody engineer and ` || (_)/
(_) | \corn computer user"

On Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:07:39 +0100, Nick Hopton <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In a recent message
<[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney
<[email hidden]> wrote.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

guardian.co.uk0,3604,1189220,Open ↗
00.html

[...]

Quoted message said:

I saw that. I'm thinking of getting a 4x4 but I can't
decide which one
- there are so many of them! I do a modest amount of
walking too, so I can see both sides of the argument.

[...]

What did you think of the article, by the way? To me, it
looked like a very fair summing-up of where things stand
just at the moment. In the paper, of course, the article
was accompanied by an atrocity picture.

Regards, Nick.

I thought the article was OK. At some point some people are
going to have to live with a compromise, I suppose.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

Mike Clark said:

My suggestion for what you've put above is a Subaru Legacy
Outback. Essentially a soft-roader estate that has plenty
of room in the back, a reasonable ground clearance, and
reasonable off-road ability yet essentially retaining on-
road driving characteristics of a family estate car. You
see a lot of these in use in rural areas of the alps. If
you're not so interested in the length of the boot for
sleeping then I would recommend the car I drive which is a
Subaru Forester. All models of Subaru are very common in
rural areas of the Alps because of their ability to cope
with snow on steep winding mountain roads.

In the UK I only occasionally use mine "off-road" e.g. on
lanes and by-ways to access caves or huts, but I more
frequently encounter snow and difficult road conditions
when travelling in the Alps, particularly in winter.
However for me when selecting a vehicle I'd rather not
compromise on-road motorway cruising too much or ability to
handle standard A-roads or B-roads at cruising speeds,
because that's where I'm going to be spending most of the
time in the vehicle. Having travelled long distances on
motorways in friends vehicles such as the LR Discovery and
LR 110 I know which type of vehicle I prefer.

Mike

Thanks - it does look good.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗

Following up to Paul Rooney

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4? And out of those that do, who uses
it off-road?

Yes and yes, but not in UK.

I didn't like the rock hard suspension of the little
Susukis. Patrol, Land Cruiser, Pajero, Shogun, Terrano (or
whatever called in UK) and all that top end Japanese stuff
are all fine. Jeep Wrangler great fun but tiring on road,
although still fun. Jeep Cherokee, three out of three broke
down. Frontera I liked. Never driven any LRs as you dont get
them as hire cars in Spain.

Jaguar X 2.5 was nice :-)
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site
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all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Roger Chapman

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Who here drives a 4x4?

I do. I think a good 4 x 4 is a safer bet than all those
dreadful front wheel drive cars that the modern driver has
been brainwashed into thinking are the bees knees. :-)

Front wheel drive? Don't like it.

Have you compared braking distances between a lot of 4x4s
and cars? Then there is pedestrian safety and crumple zones.
Those three together make me regard a 4x4 for a road car as
seriously compromised.
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "fell-walker.co.ukfell-walker.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- dontuse@
all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Paul Rooney

Quoted message said:

I saw that. I'm thinking of getting a 4x4 but I can't
decide which one
- there are so many of them! I do a modest amount of
walking too, so I can see both sides of the argument. I
suspect most owners don't ever stray off the road in
them, and I might not venture very far into the
wilderness myself, but it would be nice to have
something that wasn't going to get stuck every time the
tarmac ended.

How far off road do you want to go? A 4x4 *car* will deal
with snow fairly well (as will a set of chains) and grass
but you need ground clearance for rutted tracks. I don't
drive one in UK because they don't steer well on tarmac,
brake poorly and are generally worse than a car, not being
designed for the job of thrashing up motorways. The ones
that do this fairly well, (the SUVs) don't really do the mud
plugging well. Also I never come across anywhere I need one.
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site
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all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Chris Morriss

Quoted message said:

In the Guardian! Oh dear me no, one does NOT read the
Guardian.

its a good idea to read a cross section of the press.
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site
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Following up to Paul Rooney

Quoted message said:

Ha ha! In fact, one of our most eminent regulars drives a
Beemer, and I might very well drive one if I had the dosh.

I drive a "Beemer" (and would not change) but not sure
eminent would fit :-)
--
Mike Reid "Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Walk-Photo-Wasdale-Thames- Walk-eat-drink-London
"fellwalk.co.ukfellwalk.co.ukOpen ↗" <-- you can email us@ this site
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