2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5 km

[serpico7]

I know the yellow jersey's team is supposed to "defend" the jersey and control the peloton, but I think that in the third week, you throw that out the window. Frank may be in yellow, but Cadel is the virtual yellow jersey factoring in the time trial. Even Menchov is ahead of Frank based on the same measure. Let Silence or Rabobank or somebody else pull at the front.

 

[serpico7]

Agreed. Despite Riis's musings, CSC for all there huffing and puffing haven't achieved a hell of lot. If the race was won on getting the most members of your team to the base of the final climb then they would have won hands down. That’s not the aim in this race thou.

Exactly. For such a stacked team, they are on their way to achieving nothing but the white jersey and third place.

C'mon CSC - ride smart!

 

[TheDarkLord]

I know the yellow jersey's team is supposed to "defend" the jersey and control the peloton, but I think that in the third week, you throw that out the window. Frank may be in yellow, but Cadel is the virtual yellow jersey factoring in the time trial. Even Menchov is ahead of Frank based on the same measure. Let Silence or Rabobank or somebody else pull at the front.

Yeah, why set the pace now and keep the break from going too far ahead? Don't they want to save their strength for the difficult parts of the race?

 

[serpico7]

Yeah, why set the pace now and keep the break from going too far ahead? Don't they want to save their strength for the difficult parts of the race?

Maybe their goal is maximizing sponsor air time.

 

[serpico7]

Given how the peloton is spread out, it seems CSC are setting a decent pace and wasting energy.

Evans and Menchov, virtual 1st and 2nd, couldn't be happier with CSC tactics thus far today. That should be a hint to Riis that he needs to change tactics.

 

[Scotttri]

Exactly. For such a stacked team, they are on their way to achieving nothing but the white jersey and third place.

C'mon CSC - ride smart!

Riding smart is riding different, if CSC want to win they cant set such a high constant pace, the pace they set yesterday was so high none of them could attack, they need to change the pace up and down with constant surges. Keeping a constant pace wont challenge cadel or menchov, there fantastic time trialists, and in that I mean fantastic at keeping a high constant pace.
I'm an Aussie and want cadel to win, so i'm happy if csc keep doin what there doin, but from a spectator point of view it'd be much better to see some great attacks.

 

[alvynmcq]

Maybe they are going to limit time to the breakaway then send someone up the road after them on the Galibier, Junior Schleck maybe? Then let someone else take over the pace making while they all rest during the descent, then exact same thing again raise the pace on the flat and send someone on the attack on the CDF, Sastre this time? Drop back from the pacemaking, rest on the descent then have Canc and Voigt hammer the pace on the flat and on the foot of climb then launch the Yellow jersey and if the break is still away and he can make it to them he will have J Schleck and Sastre to pace him.

Good thing I am not a tactician for a pro-cycling team, we would never win anything.

 

[Klodifan]

Maybe they are going to limit time to the breakaway then send someone up the road after them on the Galibier, Junior Schleck maybe? Then let someone else take over the pace making while they all rest during the descent, then exact same thing again raise the pace on the flat and send someone on the attack on the CDF, Sastre this time? Drop back from the pacemaking, rest on the descent then have Canc and Voigt hammer the pace on the flat and on the foot of climb then launch the Yellow jersey and if the break is still away and he can make it to them he will have J Schleck and Sastre to pace him.

Good thing I am not a tactician for a pro-cycling team, we would never win anything.

raising the pace on the flats hasnt worked for them thus far, so if they continue that tactic evans has won

 

[thoughtforfood]

Maybe they are going to limit time to the breakaway then send someone up the road after them on the Galibier, Junior Schleck maybe? Then let someone else take over the pace making while they all rest during the descent, then exact same thing again raise the pace on the flat and send someone on the attack on the CDF, Sastre this time? Drop back from the pacemaking, rest on the descent then have Canc and Voigt hammer the pace on the flat and on the foot of climb then launch the Yellow jersey and if the break is still away and he can make it to them he will have J Schleck and Sastre to pace him.

Good thing I am not a tactician for a pro-cycling team, we would never win anything.

I think they are just projecting power right now. They aren't working so hard that they are killing themselves yet. I also think that maybe the earlier the selection is made, they may feel the more likely Sastre and Schleck can gain more time with Cadel more worn down by the final climb.

 

[serpico7]

I think they are just projecting power right now. They aren't working so hard that they are killing themselves yet. I also think that maybe the earlier the selection is made, they may feel the more likely Sastre and Schleck can gain more time with Cadel more worn down by the final climb.

They're not killing themselves, but they are wasting energy that they could use later. If it's good for Evans and Menchov, it can't be good for CSC.

 

[TheDarkLord]

I think they are just projecting power right now. They aren't working so hard that they are killing themselves yet. I also think that maybe the earlier the selection is made, they may feel the more likely Sastre and Schleck can gain more time with Cadel more worn down by the final climb.

But that is the wrong strategy. Cadel is good at holding on to a steady pace even if it is fast. You would think that they would learn something from yesterday's stage. If they don't, well they deserve to lose the jersey and go home empty handed.

 

[Klodifan]

But that is the wrong strategy. Cadel is good at holding on to a steady pace even if it is fast. You would think that they would learn something from yesterday's stage. If they don't, well they deserve to lose the jersey and go home empty handed.

agreed. same tactic three stages in a row.

say what you want about JB, but he knows how to win. on american tv he is on the same page as many of us and sees csc's tactics as not being the best.

 

[Scotttri]

But that is the wrong strategy. Cadel is good at holding on to a steady pace even if it is fast. You would think that they would learn something from yesterday's stage. If they don't, well they deserve to lose the jersey and go home empty handed.

Exactly what i posted.


As for Andy, he's done alot of work the past two stages i'm not sure he's gonna have the legs all the way through the stage today, so they may not have him as a pace setter!! He is a fantastic rider though and a great chance at a win in the future

 

[thoughtforfood]

But that is the wrong strategy. Cadel is good at holding on to a steady pace even if it is fast. You would think that they would learn something from yesterday's stage. If they don't, well they deserve to lose the jersey and go home empty handed.

No, I think they will attack on the second climb and on the third. I dont think they want to give him a steady pace on the last two mountains. They want to wear him down earlier.

 

[serpico7]

But that is the wrong strategy. Cadel is good at holding on to a steady pace even if it is fast. You would think that they would learn something from yesterday's stage. If they don't, well they deserve to lose the jersey and go home empty handed.

Indeed.

Look at the last dominant team in the Tour - Discovery (let's set aside the doping for a moment). They were excellent at racing tactics, and I can't imagine JB playing into his competition's strengths the way Riis is.

 

[alvynmcq]

If I was BR I would order Frank Schleck to attack now, even if it dosen't stick just to see who will respond. Most of the Silence team are hanging off the back of the peleton. If they send Popo after him he will probably just work with him to try and get a stage win

 

[Klodifan]

i wonder whaat valverde is saying? your tactics suck?

 

[serpico7]

If I was BR I would order Frank Schleck to attack now, even if it dosen't stick just to see who will respond. Most of the Silence team are hanging off the back of the peleton. If they send Popo after him he will probably just work with him to try and get a stage win

An attack by Shleck on anything but the steeps is a wasted effort.

 

[serpico7]

i wonder whaat valverde is saying? your tactics suck?

 

[thoughtforfood]

If I was BR I would order Frank Schleck to attack now, even if it dosen't stick just to see who will respond. Most of the Silence team are hanging off the back of the peleton. If they send Popo after him he will probably just work with him to try and get a stage win

Now would be ballsy, but stupid.....unless your name is Floyd Landis and you are doped to the gills.

He isn't that much stronger. I do think the attacks should happen on the final climb from the very bottom, and I think they will if they believe they have worn down the others enough.