Breaking Spokes

Roger Zoul said:

Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
the rear wheel and it got out of true. I got it fixed on
Wednesday at the LBS. I did another 30 miles on Thursday,
no problems, but the route was fairly easy in terms of
hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles out, I
popped another spoke on the rear wheel on a route similar
to the first one, but longer. I ended up walking home. The
LBS fixed it and trued the wheel again. The folks over
in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping
and that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I don't know
what that means yet).

I will be even more radical. Those wheels are good for show,
and for lighter riders. But they are a pain from several
aspects. If it were me, I would get a good set of custom
built wheels, with sufficient spokes and strength to handle
you and your riding style. Actually, it was me. The Rolfs
are in the storage area, and the custom made wheels (Open
Pro rims, Ultegra hubs) are on the bike.

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up hills (there
are a goodly amount of hills here in upstate SC -
Greenville) according to cadance, trying to keep it at or
above 60. I do end up shifting down as I go up the hill, as
it's sometimes hard to know what gear i really need to be
in (I find hills deceptive -- some look really hard but
turn out to be easy while others look easy but turn out to
be hard -- what's up with that?).

Poppycock. The problem is the wheel, not your riding style.
I ride a fair amount, and a lot of it is in the hills (6000-
8000 miles/year, 400K-500K ft of climbing). When climbing
you should be shifting so that you can turn a good cadence
and keeping your HR under control, not because it is better
for your wheels. If your riding style is the problem (which
I do not believe) then wheels that fit your riding style are
the solution; match the equipment to you, not you to the
equipment.

- rick

Roger Zoul said:

This is my bike: specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
?spid=5863&JServSessionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008

Nice bike!

Quoted message said:

My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
design high performance wheel set"

Only the paired spoke design is Rolf's, and that's really
over a century old. This design detail has nothing to do
with your wheel breaking spokes.

Quoted message said:

I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.

A little on the heavy side for a wheel with only 28 spokes,
but still not a cause for spokes to break.

Quoted message said:

The folks over
in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping

I agree.

Quoted message said:

and that I should have the wheel rebuilt

This shouldn't be necessary to stop spokes breaking if the
spokes are a reasonable fit in the hub holes. More below.

Quoted message said:

(I don't know what that means yet).

A rebuild is replacing the spokes, and the rim if it's
damaged, and re-tensioning the wheel.

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel.

Clearly, she doesn't know why spokes break. You should be
able to pedal as hard as you like and not break any spokes
by doing so.

Quoted message said:

Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
appreciated.

Unless there is some material flaw or dimensional anomaly in
your wheels, here's a sure fix to prevent broken spokes:

1. Measure the spoke elbow. If it's 6.5mm or less, the
spokes are a good fit in almost any hub's holes. If 7.0mm
or more, have them replaced.[1] Dimension E is what
you're measuring, shown here:
<http://www.cnspoke.com/products/measure.htm>

2. Replace any broken spokes.

3. Adjust hop, wobble, tension and dish. Aim for about 100
kg average tension on the right side spokes. Lube nipples
and spoke threads as needed. The shop can easily do this.

** And here's the secret ingredient to preventing broken
spokes: **
4. Stress relieve the wheel.[2] Basically, squeeze sets of
four spokes in your hands. Go around the wheel repeating
until every spoke has been momentarily over-tensioned
like this.

Many shop mechanic wheel builders squeeze spokes like this,
but few squeeze hard enough or know that this relieves
stress in the spokes and prevents broken spokes. The harder
the squeeze, the better the resistance to spoke breakage.

How hard?
- Wear padded leather gloves. It'll hurt your bare hands
otherwise.
- Squeeze hard to try and break any spokes that might be
about to break. Squeeze really hard. I dare you to break
a spoke! :-)

5. Readjust hop, wobble, tension and dish as above.

[6] More details on elbow length here:
<http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm>

[7] More details on stress relieving spokes here:
<yarchive.netstress relieve.htmlOpen ↗

Only one more thing to add - at 235 to 240 pounds, a 24/28
spoke wheel pair is probably too few. But, it is probably
cheaper to rebuild and stress relieve the wheels than to buy
new ones, so I would try that first. If you can remember,
did you hear any pinging noises coming from your wheels when
the bike was brand new? That is a telltale sign of an
improperly stress-releived wheel, and indicates spokes
seating and unwinding, the result of which is a wheel that
is at too low of tension.

Even experienced wheelbuilders fail to properly stress
revieve spokes - good advice from dianne..

dianne_1234 said:

Roger Zoul said:

This is my bike: specialized.comSBCBkModel.jsOpen ↗
p?spid=5863&JServSessionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008

Nice bike!

Quoted message said:

My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
design high performance wheel set"

Only the paired spoke design is Rolf's, and that's really
over a century old. This design detail has nothing to do
with your wheel breaking spokes.

Quoted message said:

I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.

A little on the heavy side for a wheel with only 28
spokes, but still not a cause for spokes to break.

Quoted message said:

The folks over
in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping

I agree.

Quoted message said:

and that I should have the wheel rebuilt

This shouldn't be necessary to stop spokes breaking if the
spokes are a reasonable fit in the hub holes. More below.

Quoted message said:

(I don't know what that means yet).

A rebuild is replacing the spokes, and the rim if it's
damaged, and re-tensioning the wheel.

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel.

Clearly, she doesn't know why spokes break. You should be
able to pedal as hard as you like and not break any spokes
by doing so.

Quoted message said:

Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
appreciated.

Unless there is some material flaw or dimensional
anomaly in your wheels, here's a sure fix to prevent
broken spokes:

1. Measure the spoke elbow. If it's 6.5mm or less, the
spokes are a good fit in almost any hub's holes. If
7.0mm or more, have them replaced.[1] Dimension E is
what you're measuring, shown here:
<http://www.cnspoke.com/products/measure.htm>

2. Replace any broken spokes.

3. Adjust hop, wobble, tension and dish. Aim for about 100
kg average tension on the right side spokes. Lube
nipples and spoke threads as needed. The shop can
easily do this.

** And here's the secret ingredient to preventing broken
spokes: **
4. Stress relieve the wheel.[2] Basically, squeeze sets of
four spokes in your hands. Go around the wheel
repeating until every spoke has been momentarily over-
tensioned like this.

Many shop mechanic wheel builders squeeze spokes like
this, but few squeeze hard enough or know that this
relieves stress in the spokes and prevents broken spokes.
The harder the squeeze, the better the resistance to spoke
breakage.

How hard?
- Wear padded leather gloves. It'll hurt your bare hands
otherwise.
- Squeeze hard to try and break any spokes that might be
about to break. Squeeze really hard. I dare you to
break a spoke! :-)

5. Readjust hop, wobble, tension and dish as above.

[1] More details on elbow length here:
<http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm>

[2] More details on stress relieving spokes here:
<http://yarchive.net/bike/stress_relieve.html>

i second all this from dianne, but add one thing: the
quality of the spoke is very important. no amount of "stress
relief" can compensate for poor material quality or
production practice by the spoke's manufacturer. stick to a
known brand. d.t. have the majority of the
u.s. custom build market - they make a good reliable spoke.
sapim have the majority of the european peloton and are
courageous enough to publish fatigue tables for their
products. choose your poison accordingly.

dianne_1234 said:

Roger Zoul said:

This is my bike: specialized.comSBCBkModel.jsOpen ↗
p?spid=5863&JServSessionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008

Nice bike!

Quoted message said:

My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
design high performance wheel set"

Only the paired spoke design is Rolf's, and that's really
over a century old. This design detail has nothing to do
with your wheel breaking spokes.

Quoted message said:

I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.

A little on the heavy side for a wheel with only 28
spokes, but still not a cause for spokes to break.

Quoted message said:

The folks over
in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping

I agree.

Quoted message said:

and that I should have the wheel rebuilt

This shouldn't be necessary to stop spokes breaking if the
spokes are a reasonable fit in the hub holes. More below.

Quoted message said:

(I don't know what that means yet).

A rebuild is replacing the spokes, and the rim if it's
damaged, and re-tensioning the wheel.

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel.

Clearly, she doesn't know why spokes break. You should be
able to pedal as hard as you like and not break any spokes
by doing so.

Quoted message said:

Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
appreciated.

Unless there is some material flaw or dimensional
anomaly in your wheels, here's a sure fix to prevent
broken spokes:

1. Measure the spoke elbow. If it's 6.5mm or less, the
spokes are a good fit in almost any hub's holes. If
7.0mm or more, have them replaced.[1] Dimension E is
what you're measuring, shown here:
<http://www.cnspoke.com/products/measure.htm>

2. Replace any broken spokes.

3. Adjust hop, wobble, tension and dish. Aim for about 100
kg average tension on the right side spokes. Lube
nipples and spoke threads as needed. The shop can
easily do this.

** And here's the secret ingredient to preventing broken
spokes: **
4. Stress relieve the wheel.[2] Basically, squeeze sets of
four spokes in your hands. Go around the wheel
repeating until every spoke has been momentarily over-
tensioned like this.

Many shop mechanic wheel builders squeeze spokes like
this, but few squeeze hard enough or know that this
relieves stress in the spokes and prevents broken spokes.
The harder the squeeze, the better the resistance to spoke
breakage.

How hard?
- Wear padded leather gloves. It'll hurt your bare hands
otherwise.
- Squeeze hard to try and break any spokes that might be
about to break. Squeeze really hard. I dare you to
break a spoke! :-)

5. Readjust hop, wobble, tension and dish as above.

[1] More details on elbow length here:
<http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm>

[2] More details on stress relieving spokes here:
<http://yarchive.net/bike/stress_relieve.html>

Roger Zoul said:

This is my bike:

specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008

I take it you meant:

tinyurl.com2lo5vOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

which I bought last September. I had about 200 miles on it
until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles. I've been
riding a fair amount recently.

Quoted message said:

My bike has these wheels:

Quoted message said:

"Rolf design 700c twin spoke design high performance
wheel set"

Quoted message said:

I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a notion
that they are somehow designed for speed.

Not really. They are designed to make you think of speed,
the difference being only measurable with a stop watch at
maximum effort. They aren't lighter nor are they pleasant to
ride in winds.

Quoted message said:

I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.

Work on that.

Quoted message said:

Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
the rear wheel and it got out of true. I got it fixed on
Wednesday at the LBS. I did another 30 miles on Thursday,
no problems, but the route was fairly easy in terms of
hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles out, I
popped another spoke on the rear wheel on a route similar
to the first one, but longer. I ended up walking home. The
LBS fixed it and trued the wheel again. The folks over in
.misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping and
that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I don't know what
that means yet).

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up hills (there
are a goodly amount of hills here in upstate SC -
Greenville) according to cadence, trying to keep it at or
above 60.

The guy doesn't understand bicycles. The torque in a rear
wheel is independent of gear ratio for any given speed in
the flat and is smoother with lower peaks for hill climbing
in big gears (low cadence). Therefore, he is making this up
as a cover for his poor wheel building. I suspect he doesn't
understand stress relieving spokes after building a wheel.

Quoted message said:

I do end up shifting down as I go up the hill, as it's
sometimes hard to know what gear I really need to be in (I
find hills deceptive -- some look really hard but turn out
to be easy while others look easy but turn out to be hard
-- what's up with that?).

I think you are confusing the effects of short hills with
long ones, or ones that you approach rested or already near
your limit. RR under- or over-passes are steep hills but
insignificant as climbs. All that has nothing to do with
the reliability of your wheels. Just the same, low spoke
count wheels are not as durable as conventional 36 spoke
road wheels.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

This is my bike:

specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008

Quoted message said:

which I bought last September. I had about 200 miles on it
until April

17,

Quoted message said:

now I have almost 800 miles. I've been riding a fair
amount recently.

My bike has these wheels:

"Rolf design 700c twin spoke design high performance
wheel set"

I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a notion
that they are somehow designed for speed 🙂

I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.

Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
the rear wheel

and

Quoted message said:

it got out of true. I got it fixed on Wednesday at the
LBS. I did

another

Quoted message said:

30 miles on Thursday, no problems, but the route was
fairly easy in terms

of

Quoted message said:

hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles out, I
popped another

spoke

Quoted message said:

on the rear wheel on a route similar to the first one, but
longer. I

ended

Quoted message said:

up walking home. The LBS fixed it and trued the wheel
again. The folks

over

Quoted message said:

in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping
and that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I don't know
what that means yet).

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up hills (there
are a goodly amount of hills here in

upstate

Quoted message said:

SC - Greenville) according to cadance, trying to keep it
at or above 60.

I

Quoted message said:

do end up shifting down as I go up the hill, as it's
sometimes hard to

know

Quoted message said:

what gear i really need to be in (I find hills deceptive
-- some look

really

Quoted message said:

hard but turn out to be easy while others look easy but
turn out to be hard -- what's up with that?).

Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
appreciated.

I have had lots of problems with breaking rear wheel spokes.
My advice is to look at the Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels. I
replied to another post earlier today with my results with
36 spoke hand built wheels. The summary is that I have had
horrible results with them but great results with the
Ksyrium Elites. It know that this goes completely against
the overall feelings of most of the vocal members of this
group but the Ksyrium Elite wheel has lasted more that three
times longer than any of the hand built wheels...and it had
made zero trips to the LBS to get trued. Before anyone says
that I just got a bad builder I had the wheel built at three
different places. Each time I spoke to the owner, or lead
tech, to explain my situation and asked that the wheel be
built by their best wheel builder.

roger-<< This is my bike:

specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0md o1uybug.j27008 >><BR><BR> << I had about 200
miles on it until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles.
I've been riding a fair amount recently.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

<< My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
design high performance wheel set" >><BR><BR> << I weigh 235
to 240 lbs. >><BR><BR> << Last Tuesday, after riding 30
miles, I popped a spoke on the rear wheel and it got out of
true. >><BR><BR>

<< The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel. >><BR><BR>

The bike shop owner is clueless, particularly if she sold
you the bicycle. Go to her, in private, and tell her she
needs to have an appropriate for you wheelset built. Shimano
hubs onto a 36 hole rim, built well. If she won't, ask for
your money back and go to a bike shop that has a clue. Also
call Specialized.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

bobmc-<< It know that this goes completely against the
overall feelings of most of the vocal members of this group
but the Ksyrium Elite wheel has lasted more that three times
longer than any of the hand built wheels.. >><BR><BR>

Then ya still need a new wheelbuilder.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali
costruite eccezionalmente bene"

dianne_1234 wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 18:00:52 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: This is my bike:
:::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008
::
:: Nice bike!
::
::: My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
::: design high performance wheel set"
::
:: Only the paired spoke design is Rolf's, and that's really
:: over a century old. This design detail has nothing to do
:: with your wheel breaking spokes.
::
::: I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.
::
:: A little on the heavy side for a wheel with only 28
:: spokes, but still not a cause for spokes to break.
::
::: The folks over
::: in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping
::
:: I agree.
::
::: and that I should have the wheel rebuilt
::
:: This shouldn't be necessary to stop spokes breaking
:: if the spokes are a reasonable fit in the hub holes.
:: More below.
::
::: (I don't know what that means yet).
::
:: A rebuild is replacing the spokes, and the rim if it's
:: damaged, and re-tensioning the wheel.
::
::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
::: lot of stress on the rear wheel.
::
:: Clearly, she doesn't know why spokes break. You should be
:: able to pedal as hard as you like and not break any
:: spokes by doing so.

Thanks a lot for the helpful comments, Dianne. I'm still
working through all of it...I'm going to look into getting
the wheels rebuilt and then I'll likely go to a new wheel
set, either selling the Rolf's or storing them. I just
feel a lack of confidence in riding long distances with
such a great possibility of wheel failure and having to
"limp" home.

::
::: Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
::: appreciated.
::
:: Unless there is some material flaw or dimensional anomaly
:: in your wheels, here's a sure fix to prevent broken
:: spokes:
::
:: 1. Measure the spoke elbow. If it's 6.5mm or less, the
:: spokes are a good fit in almost any hub's holes. If
:: 7.0mm or more, have them replaced.[1] Dimension E is
:: what you're measuring, shown here:
:: <http://www.cnspoke.com/products/measure.htm>
::
:: 2. Replace any broken spokes.
::
:: 3. Adjust hop, wobble, tension and dish. Aim for about
:: 100 kg average tension on the right side spokes. Lube
:: nipples and spoke threads as needed. The shop can
:: easily do this.
::
:: ** And here's the secret ingredient to preventing broken
:: spokes: **
:: 4. Stress relieve the wheel.[2] Basically, squeeze sets
:: of four spokes in your hands. Go around the wheel
:: repeating until every spoke has been momentarily over-
:: tensioned like this.
::
:: Many shop mechanic wheel builders squeeze spokes like
:: this, but few squeeze hard enough or know that this
:: relieves stress in the spokes and prevents broken spokes.
:: The harder the squeeze, the better the resistance to
:: spoke breakage.
::
:: How hard?
:: - Wear padded leather gloves. It'll hurt your bare hands
:: otherwise.
:: - Squeeze hard to try and break any spokes that might be
:: about to break. Squeeze really hard. I dare you to
:: break a spoke! :-)
::
:: 5. Readjust hop, wobble, tension and dish as above.
::
:: [1] More details on elbow length here:
:: <http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/DTspokes.htm>
::
:: [2] More details on stress relieving spokes here:
:: <yarchive.netstress relieve.htmlOpen ↗

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
:: roger-<< This is my bike:
::
::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0md
:: o1uybug.j27008 >><BR><BR> << I had about 200 miles on it
:: until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles. I've been
:: riding a fair amount recently.
:::: <BR><BR>
:: << My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
:: design high performance wheel set"
:: >><BR><BR> << I weigh 235 to 240 lbs. >><BR><BR>
:: << Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke
:: on the rear wheel and it got out of true. >><BR><BR>
::
::
:: << The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
:: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot
:: of stress on the rear wheel. >><BR><BR>
::
:: The bike shop owner is clueless, particularly if she sold
:: you the bicycle. Go to her, in private, and tell her she
:: needs to have an appropriate for you wheelset built.
:: Shimano hubs onto a 36 hole rim, built well. If she
:: won't, ask for your money back and go to a bike shop that
:: has a clue. Also call Specialized.

That's a really good idea, Peter, thanks.

Rick Warner wrote:
:: On Sat, 29 May 2004 18:00:52 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::
::: Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
::: the rear wheel and it got out of true. I got it fixed on
::: Wednesday at the LBS. I did another 30 miles on
::: Thursday, no problems, but the route was fairly easy in
::: terms of hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles
::: out, I popped another spoke on the rear wheel on a route
::: similar to the first one, but longer. I ended up walking
::: home. The LBS fixed it and trued the wheel again. The
::: folks over
::: in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping
::: and that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I don't
::: know what that means yet).
::
:: I will be even more radical. Those wheels are good for
:: show, and for lighter riders. But they are a pain from
:: several aspects. If it were me, I would get a good set of
:: custom built wheels, with sufficient spokes and strength
:: to handle you and your riding style. Actually, it was me.
:: The Rolfs are in the storage area, and the custom made
:: wheels (Open Pro rims, Ultegra hubs) are on the bike.

What about this Peter White guy? He offers lifetime if you
go with what he suggests...I want this problem to go away...

::
::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
::: lot of stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up
::: hills (there are a goodly amount of hills here in
::: upstate SC - Greenville) according to cadance, trying to
::: keep it at or above 60. I do end up shifting down as I
::: go up the hill, as it's sometimes hard to know what gear
::: i really need to be in (I find hills deceptive -- some
::: look really hard but turn out to be easy while others
::: look easy but turn out to be hard -- what's up with
::: that?).
::
:: Poppycock. The problem is the wheel, not your riding
:: style. I ride a fair amount, and a lot of it is in the
:: hills (6000-8000 miles/year, 400K-500K ft of climbing).
:: When climbing you should be shifting so that you can turn
:: a good cadence and keeping your HR under control, not
:: because it is better for your wheels. If your riding
:: style is the problem (which I do not believe) then wheels
:: that fit your riding style are the solution; match the
:: equipment to you, not you to the equipment.

I agree 100%. The suggestion that I always shift to granny
gear on any hill to protect my wheels is nuts, imo.

[email hidden] wrote:

::
::: I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a
::: notion that they are somehow designed for speed.
::
:: Not really. They are designed to make you think of speed,
:: the difference being only measurable with a stop watch at
:: maximum effort. They aren't lighter nor are they pleasant
:: to ride in winds.

Why would they not be pleasant to ride in winds? Is there
some design feature?.

::
::: I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.
::
:: Work on that.

Absolutely...

::
::: Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
::: the rear wheel and it got out of true. I got it fixed on
::: Wednesday at the LBS. I did another 30 miles on
::: Thursday, no problems, but the route was fairly easy in
::: terms of hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles
::: out, I popped another spoke on the rear wheel on a route
::: similar to the first one, but longer. I ended up walking
::: home. The LBS fixed it and trued the wheel again. The
::: folks over in .misc think that these spokes ought not to
::: be popping and that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I
::: don't know what that means yet).
::
::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
::: lot of stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up
::: hills (there are a goodly amount of hills here in
::: upstate SC - Greenville) according to cadence, trying to
::: keep it at or above 60.
::
:: The guy doesn't understand bicycles. The torque in a rear
:: wheel is independent of gear ratio for any given speed in
:: the flat and is smoother with lower peaks for hill
:: climbing in big gears (low cadence). Therefore, he is
:: making this up as a cover for his poor wheel building. I
:: suspect he doesn't understand stress relieving spokes
:: after building a wheel.

Likely...

::
::: I do end up shifting down as I go up the hill, as it's
::: sometimes hard to know what gear I really need to be in
::: (I find hills deceptive -- some look really hard but
::: turn out to be easy while others look easy but turn out
::: to be hard -- what's up with that?).
::
:: I think you are confusing the effects of short hills with
:: long ones,

No doubt...it's usually the long ones that look fearful but
are easier and the short ones that look hard but are
relatively hard.

:: or ones that you approach rested or already near
:: your limit.

Yes, you are correct, I think.

RR
:: under- or over-passes are steep hills but insignificant
:: as climbs. All that has nothing to do with the
:: reliability of your wheels. Just the same, low spoke
:: count wheels are not as durable as conventional 36 spoke
:: road wheels.

Noted.

RWM wrote:
:: "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: "]news:[email hidden]...
::: This is my bike:
:::
:::
::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0mdo1uybug.j27008
:::
::: which I bought last September. I had about 200 miles on
::: it until April
:: 17,
::: now I have almost 800 miles. I've been riding a fair
::: amount recently.
:::
::: My bike has these wheels:
:::
::: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke design high performance
::: wheel set"
:::
::: I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a
::: notion that they are somehow designed for speed 🙂
:::
::: I weigh 235 to 240 lbs.
:::
::: Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke on
::: the rear wheel
:: and
::: it got out of true. I got it fixed on Wednesday at the
::: LBS. I did
:: another
::: 30 miles on Thursday, no problems, but the route was
::: fairly easy in terms
:: of
::: hills. Today, while on a ride at about 25 miles out, I
::: popped another
:: spoke
::: on the rear wheel on a route similar to the first one,
::: but longer. I
:: ended
::: up walking home. The LBS fixed it and trued the wheel
::: again. The folks
:: over
::: in .misc think that these spokes ought not to be popping
::: and that I should have the wheel rebuilt (I don't
::: know what that means yet).
:::
::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
::: lot of stress on the rear wheel. I generally ride up
::: hills (there are a goodly amount of hills here in
:: upstate
::: SC - Greenville) according to cadance, trying to keep it
::: at or above 60.
:: I
::: do end up shifting down as I go up the hill, as it's
::: sometimes hard to
:: know
::: what gear i really need to be in (I find hills deceptive
::: -- some look
:: really
::: hard but turn out to be easy while others look easy but
::: turn out to be hard -- what's up with that?).
:::
::: Any comments/advice/suggestion would be greatly
::: appreciated.
::
:: I have had lots of problems with breaking rear wheel
:: spokes. My advice is to look at the Mavic Ksyrium Elite
:: wheels. I replied to another post earlier today with my
:: results with 36 spoke hand built wheels. The summary is
:: that I have had horrible results with them but great
:: results with the Ksyrium Elites. It know that this goes
:: completely against the overall feelings of most of the
:: vocal members of this group but the Ksyrium Elite wheel
:: has lasted more that three times longer than any of the
:: hand built wheels...and it had made zero trips to the LBS
:: to get trued. Before anyone says that I just got a bad
:: builder I had the wheel built at three different places.
:: Each time I spoke to the owner, or lead tech, to explain
:: my situation and asked that the wheel be built by their
:: best wheel builder.

Did your handbuilt wheel come with a lifetime guarantee?
That guy Peter White offers such if you go with his
suggestions. I'd rather not have to keep working through
various solutions on wheels to arrive at one that finally
works. I need this problem to go away so I can devote my
attention to riding and trying to improve.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
:: roger-<< This is my bike:
::
::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
ssionIdroot=0md
:: o1uybug.j27008 >><BR><BR> << I had about 200 miles on it
:: until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles. I've been
:: riding a fair amount recently.
:::: <BR><BR>
:: << My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin spoke
:: design high performance wheel set"
:: >><BR><BR> << I weigh 235 to 240 lbs. >><BR><BR>
:: << Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke
:: on the rear wheel and it got out of true. >><BR><BR>
::
::
:: << The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
:: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot
:: of stress on the rear wheel. >><BR><BR>
::
:: The bike shop owner is clueless, particularly if she sold
:: you the bicycle. Go to her, in private, and tell her she
:: needs to have an appropriate for you wheelset built.
:: Shimano hubs onto a 36 hole rim, built well. If she
:: won't, ask for your money back and go to a bike shop that
:: has a clue. Also call Specialized.
::

I'm concerned that no one at this bikeshop really knows
anything about wheelbuilding (obviously the owner doesn't).
The very young lady who trued my wheel the first time had to
put it back on the machine because even I could see it was
not true laterally and she saw that it wasn't true radially.
I don't know who trued the wheel the second time, but I had
no problems today on a short 25-mile ride -- I was lacking
confidence that I'd wouldn't break down and end up with
another long stroll, which would have been in a
thunderstorm, as it turns out.

If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White?
He offers lifetime if you go with his suggestions. I like
to notion of that since obviously he intends to back up
what he does.

Thanks for your comments.

:

Roger Zoul said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
:: roger-<< This is my bike:
::
::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
essionIdroot=0md
:: o1uybug.j27008 >><BR><BR> << I had about 200 miles on it
:: until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles. I've been
:: riding a fair amount recently.
:::: <BR><BR>
:: << My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin
:: spoke design high performance wheel set"
:: >><BR><BR> << I weigh 235 to 240 lbs. >><BR><BR>
:: << Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke
:: on the rear wheel and it got out of true. >><BR><BR>
::
::
:: << The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
:: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
:: lot of stress on the rear wheel. >><BR><BR>
::
:: The bike shop owner is clueless, particularly if she
:: sold you the bicycle. Go to her, in private, and tell
:: her she needs to have an appropriate for you wheelset
:: built. Shimano hubs onto a 36 hole rim, built well. If
:: she won't, ask for your money back and go to a bike shop
:: that has a clue. Also call Specialized.
::

I'm concerned that no one at this bikeshop really knows
anything about wheelbuilding (obviously the owner doesn't).
The very young lady who trued my wheel the first time had
to put it back on the machine because even I could see it
was not true laterally and she saw that it wasn't true
radially. I don't know who trued the wheel the second time,
but I had no problems today on a short 25-mile ride -- I
was lacking confidence that I'd wouldn't break down and end
up with another long stroll, which would have been in a
thunderstorm, as it turns out.

If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White?
He offers lifetime if you go with his suggestions. I like
to notion of that since obviously he intends to back up
what he does.

Thanks for your comments.

:

Lifetime warranty sounds like a good idea. Back when I was
up around 240 pounds a few years ago I was breaking spokes
on a 36 spoke rim. Always on the drive side of the rear
wheel and always shortly after riding hard up steep
overpasses. My local bike shop said I should buy what he
called a double rim, I decided to retension and stress
relieve the wheel as well as lose weight instead. There is
more stress on spokes pushing hard up a hill with extra
weight, it takes a lot less torque to maintain your speed up
hills once you lose weight. In the meantime a warranty might
help with your peace of mind, although any well built 36
spoke wheel should handle your extra weight.

Roger Zoul said:

If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White?
He offers lifetime if you go with his suggestions. I like
to notion of that since obviously he intends to back up
what he does.

I'd be hesitant to get wheels from New Hampshire while I
lived in South Carolina, or even while I lived in New
Jersey, simply because of a warranty. Shipping bicycle
wheels is not cheap.

For a local builder, are there any local bike clubs or
organizations? Racing groups? Ask around and ask for
recommendations.

Along with Peter White, there are other excellent wheel
builders around the country. Including people who post here
regularly, like Peter Chisholm. You might start a new thread
about how to find and evaluate wheel builders?

Bicycle wheels should not be a source of constant worry! I
couldn't deal with your situation, wondering each time I
headed out if I was going to have a breakdown. In all my
years of cycling I haven't had a spoke break after I took
the time to learn how to work on my own wheels. A suggestion-
find a mid-priced traditional bike wheel- mail order sale,
local used, whatever- and learn how to true and tension on
it. And then plan on building a wheel. In the meantime, find
some quality well-built wheels and go out and enjoy your
rides without worrying!

In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger Zoul"

Quoted message said:

The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of
stress on the rear wheel.

Interesting . . . do you put less stress on the wheel at the
same speed but in a lower gear (but higher cadence)?

Perhaps I should say "funny."

Consider a 36 spoke 4X rear wheel. If it's properly built
and stress relieved you can climb in any gear you want.

Tom Gibb <[email hidden]

Roger Zoul said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
:: roger-<< This is my bike:
::
::
specialized.comSBCBkModel.jspOpen ↗
essionIdroot=0md
:: o1uybug.j27008 >><BR><BR> << I had about 200 miles on it
:: until April 17, now I have almost 800 miles. I've been
:: riding a fair amount recently.
:::: <BR><BR>
:: << My bike has these wheels: "Rolf design 700c twin
:: spoke design high performance wheel set"
:: >><BR><BR> << I weigh 235 to 240 lbs. >><BR><BR>
:: << Last Tuesday, after riding 30 miles, I popped a spoke
:: on the rear wheel and it got out of true. >><BR><BR>
::
::
:: << The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
:: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
:: lot of stress on the rear wheel. >><BR><BR>
::
:: The bike shop owner is clueless, particularly if she
:: sold you the bicycle. Go to her, in private, and tell
:: her she needs to have an appropriate for you wheelset
:: built. Shimano hubs onto a 36 hole rim, built well. If
:: she won't, ask for your money back and go to a bike shop
:: that has a clue. Also call Specialized.
::

I'm concerned that no one at this bikeshop really knows
anything about wheelbuilding (obviously the owner doesn't).
The very young lady who trued my wheel the first time had
to put it back on the machine because even I could see it
was not true laterally and she saw that it wasn't true
radially. I don't know who trued the wheel the second time,
but I had no problems today on a short 25-mile ride -- I
was lacking confidence that I'd wouldn't break down and end
up with another long stroll, which would have been in a
thunderstorm, as it turns out.

With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about
walking home even if you did break a spoke. They will roll
along quite nicely till you can get a chance for a
replacement. In the past I have ridden over 30 miles with a
broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a replacement
spoke and not had to mess around with retrueing.

Quoted message said:

If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White?
He offers lifetime if you go with his suggestions. I like
to notion of that since obviously he intends to back up
what he does.

Thanks for your comments.

:

TBGibb wrote:
:: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger
:: Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:
::
::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
::: lot of stress on the rear wheel.
::
:: Interesting . . . do you put less stress on the wheel at
:: the same speed but in a lower gear (but higher cadence)?
::
:: Perhaps I should say "funny."
::
:: Consider a 36 spoke 4X rear wheel. If it's properly built
:: and stress relieved you can climb in any gear you want.

Okay....so I can replace the rear wheel and keep the same
front wheel (I can't see why not)? That might help
cashflow...