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Breaking Spokes

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Cycling Equipment
Published
29 May 2004
Last activity
12 July 2004
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Roger Zoul
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  1. Roger Zoul said:

    TBGibb wrote:
    :: In article <[email hidden]>, "Roger
    :: Zoul" <[email hidden]> writes:
    ::
    ::: The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I
    ::: ride up hills in too high a gear, and doing so puts a
    ::: lot of stress on the rear wheel.
    ::
    :: Interesting . . . do you put less stress on the wheel at
    :: the same speed but in a lower gear (but higher cadence)?
    ::
    :: Perhaps I should say "funny."
    ::
    :: Consider a 36 spoke 4X rear wheel. If it's properly
    :: built and stress relieved you can climb in any gear
    :: you want.

    Okay....so I can replace the rear wheel and keep the same
    front wheel (I can't see why not)? That might help
    cashflow...

    This is a 32 spoke wheel, but it's along the lines that you
    would do well with-

    cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dll
    8&item=3680352269&rd=1

  2. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about
    walking home


    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite
    nicely till you can get a chance for a replacement. In the
    past I have ridden over 30 miles with a broken spoke on my
    36 spoke hub, screwed in a replacement spoke and not had
    to mess around with retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

  3. "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    ::
    ::: I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a
    ::: notion that they are somehow designed for speed.
    ::
    :: Not really. They are designed to make you think of
    :: speed, the difference being only measurable with a stop
    :: watch at maximum effort. They aren't lighter nor are
    :: they pleasant to ride in winds.

    Why would they not be pleasant to ride in winds? Is there
    some design feature?.

    Deep dish rims (i.e., the height of the rim itself) are
    generally a pain in windy conditions. The deeper the rim,
    the more of a pain they become. All that extra surface
    area gives the wind that much more to push against. It's
    especially dangerous on the front wheel -- the wind
    pushing your front wheel around can make for some
    "interesting" steering.

  4. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about
    walking home


    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along
    quite nicely till you can get a chance for a
    replacement. In the past I have ridden over 30 miles
    with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    replacement spoke and not had to mess around with
    retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a
    problem wheel on my commuter, I ride home about once a month
    with a broken spoke (there seems to be a fair number of
    them, so without counting I'm guessing 36). But how do you
    "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to true after?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
    sfu.cawiredcola President, Fabrizio
    Mazzoleni Fan Club

  5. "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sun, 30 May 2004 10:59:04 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
    <[email hidden]> wrote:

    > With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry
    > about walking home
    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along
    quite nicely till you can get a chance for a
    replacement. In the past I have ridden over 30 miles
    with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    replacement spoke and not had to mess around with
    retrueing.


    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding
    them home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a
    problem wheel on my commuter, I ride home about once a
    month with a broken spoke (there seems to be a fair
    number of them, so without counting I'm guessing 36). But
    how do you "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to
    true after?


    Yes.

  6. Quoted message said:

    The owner of the LBS told me today that she thinks I ride
    up hills in

    She? That was the problem. Girls don't know bikes!

    Quoted message said:

    too high a gear, and doing so puts a lot of stress on the
    rear wheel.

    Cranking in the lower gears puts MORE torque on the
    wheel, not less.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  7. cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dll

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that
    prenups are bad!

    "My friend signed a pre-nup and now his wife left him with
    nothing. He had an Ultegra CoMotion bike with 100-200 miles
    on it. I will be selling it in parts.. other auctions so
    that he has rent and money for his kids while he gets things
    back together."

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training

  8. ZeeExSixAre said:

    cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dll
    098&item=3680352269&rd=1

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that
    prenups are bad!

    Must have been a [censored] prenup.

    Greg

  9. ZeeExSixAre said:

    cgi.ebay.comeBayISAPI.dll
    098&item=3680352269&rd=1

    If you learn anything from that auction, learn that
    prenups are bad!

    This good “prenup” has been around for a while - does anyone
    know who the author is?

    PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENT FOR THE BIKER

    This agreement acknowledges that the forthcoming marriage is
    an arrangement that accepts the perpetual continuity of pre-
    existing relationship between the first two parties and that
    a three-way coexistence shall be created consisting of the
    following participants: Spouse A (the non-biking loved one)
    hereafter referred to as NBLO; Spouse B (biking loved one)
    hereafter referred to as BLO, and; The Bike (the glorious
    one) hereafter referred to as TB.

    Condition I: Acknowledgment NBLO shall henceforth recognize
    that BLO and TB have forged a long standing and unbreakable
    relationship and shall never attempt to permanently divide,
    or otherwise separate the two.

    Condition II: Cohabitation NBLO and BLO shall agree upon
    comfortable and equal living quarters for TB, its related
    service equipment and riding gear. TB shall only be exposed
    to the elements of nature during rides.

    All other times TB shall have access to warm, dry, low
    traffic living space. If at any time there should be
    conflict w/ NBLO, BLO or furniture, TB shall have preference
    as to where it stays. In NBLO’s absence TB shall be
    permitted bedroom space (if not already arranged).

    Condition III: Exclusivity and Infidelity At no time shall
    NBLO, BLO, or TB be loaned out to be ridden by anyone
    outside the three-way relationship. NBLO must request from
    BLO permission to ride, fondle or otherwise physically
    contact TB and only do so in the presence of BLO.

    Condition IV: Equal Time NBLO shall be guaranteed quality
    time equivalent to TB unless it conflicts with TB in which
    case TB gets preference. Service time shall be guaranteed
    and considered a separate requirement. In the event of
    emergency, i.e. NBLO stranded, child sets hair on fire etc,
    BLO shall complete whatever TB related activity as soon as
    possible and attend said emergency.

    In the event of an in-law visit or should for any reason,
    BLO become depressed, or otherwise in need of stress relief,
    BLO shall be permitted as much time w/TB or TB related
    activities, magazines, books, events etc as needed until
    such time BLO feels better.

    Condition V: Parts NBLO and BLO will agree that BLO be
    permitted and encouraged to purchase any and all TB related
    equipment at any and all times, whether they be repairs,
    replacements, upgrades, or just plain Chi-Chi.

    Any replaced parts shall be considered cherished spares and
    provided appropriate storage space equivalent to that
    provided for TB, preferably under the bed, favorite closet
    or on coffee table as a conversation item. New Items
    immediately installed shall require TB to be put on
    prominent display (i.e. in front of TV).

    Newly purchased items not immediately installed shall be
    put on display as a centerpiece during the day and they
    shall be kept under the pillow of BLO at bedtime, unless it
    is potentially dangerous to said part. This shall be for no
    less than 5 days or until they are installed whichever
    comes first.

    Condition VI: Finance All household finance shall be
    considered separate from TB finance. If conflict should
    arise then TB gets preference.

    Condition VII: Disposition In the event NBLO has a
    compatible bike BLO can offer spare parts to be temporarily
    installed for use by NBLO until such time BLO requires their
    use on TB. No prior notice is required.

    All equipment and The Bike they are installed upon or
    intended for, shall remain the property of BLO come hell or
    high water, and shall not be relinquished under any
    circumstance including death, in which case the surviving
    party will be obligated to complete the upgrades (expressed,
    implied or dreamed of) and bury the bike with the departed,
    unless TB or BLO requests a separate grave in which case
    they shall be buried side by side and NBLO shall not be
    buried between them.

    Condition VIII: Protected Communications All TB related
    communications intended for BLO, be they voice (phone
    messages, visitors); print (mail-order catalogues, etc.); or
    electronic (e-mail, buddies calling to ride, etc.) shall be
    forwarded and delivered to BLO as expediently as possible.
    Furthermore, no censorship of said communications shall
    occur, and NBLO agrees to refrain from making disparaging
    comments about the content of these communications and/or
    their source(s).

    Extended Conditions: TB shall never be the focus of an
    argument nor brought up as part of one. TB shall never be
    discussed w/ in-laws unless said discussion is in praise
    or defense of TB. No retaliation shall ever be taken
    against TB.

    All of the above is to be considered iron-clad and in
    stone and non negotiable, unless of course, the nonbiker
    says so. Bicycle proliferation TB must be permitted to be
    fruitful and multiply. After all, there can never be too
    many bicycles.

    Each and every bicycle, whether it be TB1, TB2 ... TB5 ...
    TB9 etc, must be permitted comfortable and equal living
    quarters as per Condition II above. NBLO shall not be
    permitted to complain about the number of TB’s or how much
    of the precious housing square-footage they consume! The
    more the merrier!

    --
    Tom Sherman – Quad City Area

  10. Roger Zoul said:

    Rick Warner wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    ::
    :: I will be even more radical. Those wheels are good for
    :: show, and for lighter riders. But they are a pain from
    :: several aspects. If it were me, I would get a good set
    :: of custom built wheels, with sufficient spokes and
    :: strength to handle you and your riding style. Actually,
    :: it was me. The Rolfs are in the storage area, and the
    :: custom made wheels (Open Pro rims, Ultegra hubs) are on
    :: the bike.

    What about this Peter White guy? He offers lifetime if
    you go with what he suggests...I want this problem to
    go away...

    Peter does a great job. I have a wheel in the other room
    he built for
    me. Works great. His warranty is dependent on you getting
    what he believes is a strong enough wheel for you and
    your riding style. But that points out one of his
    strengths - he talks to you, asks questions, and makes
    recommendations based on that information.

    That said, there are a lot of builders who can do the same.
    I have never had Peter Chisolm build a wheel for me, but I
    would bet he builds great wheels. Lots of others, too, just
    not so publically visible. These days I build my own, but I
    know a couple of local guys who do a great job. Pick someone
    with a good repuation, and talk to them about your problem.
    My only suggestion is to be skeptical of the shop where they
    try to blame your climbing technique for the problem.

    - rick

  11. Quoted message said:


    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rcousine-
    [email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...
    > On Sun, 30 May 2004 10:59:04 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
    > <[email hidden]> wrote:
    >
    >> With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry
    >> about walking home
    > even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along
    > quite nicely till you can get a chance for a
    > replacement. In the past I have ridden over 30 miles
    > with a broken spoke on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a
    > replacement spoke and not had to mess around with
    > retrueing.
    >
    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them
    home.

    You did? Details please.

    Because I am really lazy and have not properly respoked a
    problem wheel on my commuter, I ride home about once a
    month with a broken spoke (there seems to be a fair
    number of them, so without counting I'm guessing 36). But
    how do you "ruin" the rim? Did it become impossible to
    true after?


    Yes.


    The rim I was using was a single wall light duty 36 spoke 32
    mm wheel. When the spoke broke the wheel did not warp enough
    to even be felt in the brake pads. After replacing the spoke
    and tightening it to the same torque as the other spokes the
    small warp disappeared and the wheel ran true when I checked
    it against the brake pad.

    You may have been using a narrower lighter duty racing wheel
    or had a real mismatch of spoke tension. If one spoke breaks
    and it was holding an inordinate amount of tension you could
    see moderate warping with a 36 spoke wheel. Otherwise if all
    the spokes are evenly tensioned and make the same sound when
    plucked, breaking just one spoke does not make the bike
    unrideable.

  12. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    :: roger-<< Did your handbuilt wheel come with a lifetime
    :: guarantee?
    :: >><BR><BR>
    ::
    :: What that means is free truing for the useful life of the
    :: rim. If ya dent a rim, he won't fix it for free. We offer
    :: the same thing.

    Yeah, that's reasonable. If I dent a rim, I don't expect to
    get that fixed for free. However, I would like to buy a
    wheel from someone who at least thinks that I won't have
    more problems with spokes popping and the wheel getting out
    of true, assuming it's not the result of a crash or
    something which results in physical damage.

    Thinking back on it, I supposed that the second spoke
    popping could have been the result of the two spills I had
    on Saturday, but given the fact that the lady apparently
    (and I see this only because I saw lateral movement and she
    saw radial movement while spinning the wheel -- which
    resulted in her working on it some more) did not do a good
    job truing the wheel, I'm not so certain.

  13. Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
    :: roger-<< If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you
    :: suggest I proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about
    :: Peter White? He offers lifetime if you go with his
    :: suggestions. I like to notion of that since obviously he
    :: intends to back up what he does. >><BR><BR>
    ::
    :: Peter White is a good choice as is Andy Muzi, Sheldon
    :: Brown, the wheel guys at ChainReaction(Mike J) and
    :: ......me.
    ::

    Great. I'm going to check local first, just because that
    would be easier. If that doesn't work, I'll be contacting
    someone from your list...thanks.

  14. Bob Mc B said:

    I have had lots of problems with breaking rear wheel
    spokes. My advice is to look at the Mavic Ksyrium Elite
    wheels. I replied to another post earlier today with my
    results with 36 spoke hand built wheels. The summary is
    that I have had horrible results with them but great
    results with the Ksyrium Elites. It know that this goes
    completely against the overall feelings of most of the
    vocal members of this group but the Ksyrium Elite wheel
    has lasted more that three times longer than any of the
    hand built wheels...and it had made zero trips to the LBS
    to get trued.

    How did you assess the abilities of these shops and their
    understanding of wheelbuilding and what causes spoke
    failures? Just pleasantly talking to a person does not
    reveal their ability. Certain questions need to be answered
    to discover that.

    Quoted message said:

    Before anyone says that I just got a bad builder I had the
    wheel built at three different places. Each time I spoke
    to the owner, or lead tech, to explain my situation and
    asked that the wheel be built by their best wheel builder.

    If that isn't the case, then how DID the spokes break,
    assuming spokes of equal quality were used in your preferred
    wheels and the failing ones. Your endorsement doesn't
    convince me, especially since I have been riding ordinary 36
    spoke wheels with good reliability for several 100K miles.

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  15. Roger Zoul said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I don't know anything about Rolf but I'm getting a
    notion that they are somehow designed for speed.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not really. They are designed to make you think of speed,
    the difference being only measurable with a stop watch at
    maximum effort. They aren't lighter nor are they pleasant
    to ride in winds.

    Quoted message said:

    Why would they not be pleasant to ride in winds? Is there
    some design feature?.

    If you have not ridden in strong winds you probably cannot
    imagine how they affect steering. It is like someone putting
    their hand on the end of your bars and pushing a bit one way
    or the other. Strong winds, even from behind, are turbulent
    and have cross components to the direction of travel. Of
    course direct cross winds are worse. The point is that aero
    wheels have far larger surfaces for the wind to attack than
    conventional wheels.

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  16. Roger Zoul said:

    If I need to find a wheel builder, how do you suggest I
    proceed? I live in Greenville SC. What about Peter White?
    He offers lifetime if you go with his suggestions. I like
    to notion of that since obviously he intends to back up
    what he does.

    Build your own. If you can follow instructions, you can
    probably build abetter wheel than you can get from most
    bicycle shops.

    avocet.comwheelbook.html
    tinyurl.com22lrv

    Available at many bicycle shops including ones who can't
    build a good wheel. They don't need no steenking books. They
    already know all about the subject... they think.

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  17. Bob Mc B said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    With a 36 spoke wheel you would not have to worry about
    walking home

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    even if you did break a spoke. They will roll along quite
    nicely till you can get a chance for a replacement. In
    the past I have ridden over 30 miles with a broken spoke
    on my 36 spoke hub, screwed in a replacement spoke and
    not had to mess around with re-truing.

    Quoted message said:

    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding them home.

    You didn't say how much you weigh and what sort of terrain
    you crossed. I know of many riders who didn't bother with a
    broken spoke for more than 100 miles with no ill effects to
    the wheel. What was ruined on your rims?

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  18. Roger Zoul said:

    Thinking back on it, I supposed that the second spoke
    popping could have been the result of the two spills I had
    on Saturday, but given the fact that the lady apparently
    (and I see this only because I saw lateral movement and
    she saw radial movement while spinning the wheel -- which
    resulted in her working on it some more) did not do a good
    job truing the wheel, I'm not so certain.

    That should not compromise spoke life although it might
    damage the rim so that it cannot be made as true as a new
    one, or maybe not at all if it was collapsed, but that
    should not affect spoke life. Spoke life is shortened by not
    stress relieving and from kinks caused by foreign objects
    against them to cause kinks. Even smooth bends have
    practically no effect on spoke life. Replacement spokes must
    often be bent to insert them into the hub. The main thing is
    to stress relieve them after truing. That's what assures
    durability for high quality spokes.

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  19. Bob Mc B said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Not true. I ruined two 36 spoke rims by riding
    them home.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    You did? Details please.

    Quoted message said:

    Yes.

    Yes what?

    Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

  20. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Bob Mc B said:

    How did you assess the abilities of these shops and their


    understanding of wheelbuilding and what causes spoke
    failures? Just pleasantly talking to a person does not
    reveal their ability. Certain questions need to be
    answered to discover that.

    Funny you should ask. In the New Hampshire Seacoast area I
    asked riders for recommendations for a good shop. I went to
    three shops to explain my situation with breaking rear
    wheels spokes and asked for their recommendations. I also
    asked them "if I didn't have the wheel built at their shop,
    who should I get to build it?" Two of the shops recommended
    the third so I had the wheel built at that shop.

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