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Will a Chiropractic "Adjustment"...

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
28 January 2004
Last activity
10 February 2004
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kathy37
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  1. working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    That's what Donald E. Harte, a chiropractic doctor in Corte Madera, CA, asserts in today's Open
    Forum column in the San Francisco Chronicle. (Perhaps someone better than I can "link it" as I can't
    currently do so with my webtv system as far as I know).

    Anyway, the article is entitled "Alternative to the Sting of a Failed Flu Vaccine". He does use some
    imprssive numbers freom the 1918 Flu Epidemic, though Homeopatic Doctors used somehat the same
    impressive numbers for that 1918 Epidemic too, though their choices of cities was different.

  2. <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

  3. "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

    Please provide proof for your statement.

  4. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    That's what Donald E. Harte, a chiropractic doctor in Corte Madera, CA, asserts in today's Open
    Forum column in the San Francisco Chronicle. (Perhaps someone better than I can "link it" as I
    can't currently do so with my webtv system as far as I know).

    Anyway, the article is entitled "Alternative to the Sting of a Failed Flu Vaccine". He does use
    some imprssive numbers freom the 1918 Flu Epidemic, though Homeopatic Doctors used somehat the
    same impressive numbers for that 1918 Epidemic too, though their choices of cities was different.

    Are these figures supposedly showing the effectiveness of those modalities? If so, they are almost
    certainly completely fabricated. Properly designed studies were hardly known within mainstream
    medicine in those days. Chiropractic has NEVER performed any rigorous clinical studies, and
    homeopathy has only ever done so in the last decade or so, without very convincing results.

    Peter Moran

  5. "mdd" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

    Please provide proof for your statement.

    The thought that manipulating the spinal cord would do anything for viral diseases is too ridiculous
    to contemplate, it's like asking for proof the moon is not made of cheese.. So, no, I'm not going to
    indulge you.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

  6. "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "mdd" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...
    > working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

    Please provide proof for your statement.

    The thought that manipulating the spinal cord would do anything for viral diseases is too
    ridiculous to contemplate, it's like asking for proof the moon is not made of cheese.. So, no, I'm
    not going to indulge you.

    --
    Robert Bronsing


    In other words, you made your statement based on your own opinion and nothing more. Fair enough.

  7. Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden] Date: 1/28/2004 12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Chiropractic has NEVER performed any rigorous clinical studies, and homeopathy has only ever done
    so in the last decade or so, without very convincing results.

    Quoted message said:

    Peter Moran

    *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable* *significant* *credibile*
    *compelling*

    ZZzz.

    Truth is if it is not endorsed by *organized medicine*, Peter Moran won't believe it.

    God himself could tap Peter on the shoulder and declare otherwise, he would still be doubtful.

    Brainwashing is very powerful.

    Jan

  8. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden] Date: 1/28/2004 12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:

    <[email hidden]

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Chiropractic has NEVER performed any rigorous clinical studies, and homeopathy has only ever done
    so in the last decade or so, without very convincing results.

    Quoted message said:

    Peter Moran

    *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable* *significant*
    *credibile* *compelling*

    ZZzz.

    Truth is if it is not endorsed by *organized medicine*, Peter Moran won't believe it.

    God himself could tap Peter on the shoulder and declare otherwise, he


    would

    Quoted message said:

    still be doubtful.

    Brainwashing is very powerful...

    and Jan Drew is living proof of this.

  9. "mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing


    Please provide proof for your statement.

    (Citations corrected to reflect who said what).

    This question is asked by an individual who weaseled, waffled and whined when ask for proof of it's
    assertions.

    IOW, another graduate of the Jan Drew School of Internet Hypocrisy.

  10. "Mark ProbertJanuary 28, 2004" <[email hidden]> wrote
    in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Robert Bronsing" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...
    > working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    --
    Robert Bronsing


    Please provide proof for your statement.

    (Citations corrected to reflect who said what).

    This question is asked by an individual who weaseled, waffled and whined when ask for proof of
    it's assertions.

    IOW, another graduate of the Jan Drew School of Internet Hypocrisy.


    Goose, gander. Don't like it eh? Well, blowbert, YOU may provide the proof, if you can.

  11. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Will a Chiropractic "Adjustment"...
    From: "Robert Bronsing" [email hidden]
    Date: 1/28/04 11:48 AM Eastern Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    Quoted message said:

    Robert Bronsing

    Of course it will.

    According to doctors who were testing the flu for "germ warfare" for the military in 1918 they were
    never able to make a healthy volunteer sick. The volunteers had to sit with, sleep, with and eat
    with the ill. They had their noses preped, their throats swabbed and so on. The ill were allowed to
    cough in the face of the volunteers. Yet, not one ever contacted the flu.

    At first they thought the disease was bacterial and caused by "Pfiffer's bacillus." We know better
    now because we have invented the virus to blame for the cause. Neither are correct.

    So, since neither bacteria nor made up viruses caused the flu of 1918 or the flu of today, then
    clearly chiropractic, homeopathy, or any reasonable treatment would "cure" the flu.

    DrC PhD When you know the truth the medical industry sucks

  12. The paragraph from Dr. Harte's "essay" concerning the 1918 Influenza
    Epidemic:

    "The Great Pandemic of 1918 ws the greatest plague of modern times. It is estimated to have killed
    between 25 million and 40 million people worldwide, about half a million in this country. History
    shows us that those under chiropractic car during the flu pandemic had a far better chance of
    survival. One example: medical doctors in Davenport Iowa treated 93,590 patients, with 6,116 deaths---
    in other words 1 out of 15 succumbed to the flu. At The Palmer College of Chiropractic in Davenport,
    1635 flu cases were adjustd, with only one fatility. Outside of Davenport, chiropractors adjusted
    4,735 flu cases, wit only six deaths--1 out of 866. In 1919, Palmer published "The Flu & You". The
    ratio of flu cases cared for versus deaths wee as follw: Medical care: 1 out of 17 died. Osteopathic
    care: 1 out of 36 died. Chiropractic care: 1 out of 886."

    My research: According to te 1920 US census, Iowa had a population of
    2.4 million citizens, while Davenport, Iowa had a population of approximately 54,000. Although I
    can't find how many "medical doctors" practiced in Davenport in 1918, it seems like it would have
    had to have been a pretty large number to "see" 93,590 patients over a perhaps a five month
    period, with the majority of cases popping up in maybe only three of those five months.

    Additionally, according to a recent article in the Des Moines, Iowa Register, there were
    approximatly 6,500 deaths attributed to the 1918 Influenza Epidemic in ALL of Iowa. If Dr. Harte's
    figures are correct than Davenport would have had to have been the "epicenter" of that calamity,
    with only 2% of the population, but 94% of the deaths.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,

    DRCEEPHD said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Will a Chiropractic "Adjustment"... From: "Robert Bronsing"
    [email hidden] Date: 1/28/04 11:48 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    Quoted message said:

    Robert Bronsing

    Of course it will.

    According to doctors who were testing the flu for "germ warfare" for the military in 1918 they were
    never able to make a healthy volunteer sick. The volunteers had to sit with, sleep, with and eat
    with the ill. They had their noses preped, their throats swabbed and so on. The ill were allowed to
    cough in the face of the volunteers. Yet, not one ever contacted the flu.

    I assume this story is as reliable as all of "Dr" Cee's other fairy tales, but at least it's new.
    I've never heard this one before.

    Anyone know where he got it? The notion that this flu couldn't be spread deliberately is quite
    implausible.

    Quoted message said:

    So, since neither bacteria nor made up viruses caused the flu of 1918 or the flu of today, then
    clearly chiropractic, homeopathy, or any reasonable treatment would "cure" the flu.

    Since the premise is false, you can derive any conclusion from it, but even if it were true, the
    conclusion still wouldn't follow.

    -- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
    correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
    shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

  14. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The paragraph from Dr. Harte's "essay" concerning the 1918 Influenza Epidemic:

    "The Great Pandemic of 1918 ws the greatest plague of modern times. It is estimated to have killed
    between 25 million and 40 million people worldwide, about half a million in this country. History
    shows us that those under chiropractic car during the flu pandemic had a far better chance of
    survival. One example: medical doctors in Davenport Iowa treated 93,590 patients, with 6,116 deaths---
    in other words 1 out of 15 succumbed to the flu. At The Palmer College of Chiropractic in
    Davenport, 1635 flu cases were adjustd, with only one fatility. Outside of Davenport,
    chiropractors adjusted 4,735 flu cases, wit only six deaths--1 out of 866. In 1919, Palmer
    published "The Flu & You". The ratio of flu cases cared for versus deaths wee as follw: Medical
    care: 1 out of 17 died. Osteopathic care: 1 out of 36 died. Chiropractic care: 1 out of 886."

    My research: According to te 1920 US census, Iowa had a population of
    2.4 million citizens, while Davenport, Iowa had a population of approximately 54,000. Although I
    can't find how many "medical doctors" practiced in Davenport in 1918, it seems like it would
    have had to have been a pretty large number to "see" 93,590 patients over a perhaps a five month
    period, with the majority of cases popping up in maybe only three of those five months.

    Additionally, according to a recent article in the Des Moines, Iowa Register, there were
    approximatly 6,500 deaths attributed to the 1918 Influenza Epidemic in ALL of Iowa. If Dr. Harte's
    figures are correct than Davenport would have had to have been the "epicenter" of that calamity,
    with only 2% of the population, but 94% of the deaths.

    Not surprising to see once again see such anomalies in the figures quoted to support dubious regimes
    such as chiropractic. We see it all the time.

    Even if the figures were sound there is no assurance that chiropractors diagnose the flu accurately,
    or that patients seriously ill with the flu would consider it wise to rely on spinal manipulation as
    the sole treatment.

    Having said that, there were no useful treatments for either viral infections or pheumonia or
    respiratory failure secondary to them in the early 1900s.

    Peter Moran

  15. "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden] Date: 1/28/2004 12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time Message-id:

    <[email hidden]

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Chiropractic has NEVER performed any rigorous clinical studies, and homeopathy has only ever done
    so in the last decade or so, without very convincing results.

    Quoted message said:

    Peter Moran

    *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut* *reasonable* *significant*
    *credibile* *compelling*

    ZZzz.

    Truth is if it is not endorsed by *organized medicine*, Peter Moran won't believe it.

    God himself could tap Peter on the shoulder and declare otherwise, he


    would

    Quoted message said:

    still be doubtful.

    Brainwashing is very powerful.

    So shall we add "spinal manipulation is a cure for influenza" to your nutty beliefs, Jan? OK.

    Peter Moran

    Quoted message said:


    Jan

  16. "DRCEEPHD" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: Will a Chiropractic "Adjustment"... From: "Robert Bronsing"
    [email hidden] Date: 1/28/04 11:48 AM Eastern Standard Time Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    working for preventing/treating the Flu?

    Of course not.

    Quoted message said:

    Robert Bronsing

    Of course it will.

    This is merely a reflection of your extreme ignorance in matters biological or medical.

    --
    Robert Bronsing

  17. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    The paragraph from Dr. Harte's "essay" concerning the 1918 Influenza Epidemic:

    "The Great Pandemic of 1918 ws the greatest plague of modern times. It is estimated to have killed
    between 25 million and 40 million people worldwide, about half a million in this country. History
    shows us that those under chiropractic car during the flu pandemic had a far better chance of
    survival. One example: medical doctors in Davenport Iowa treated 93,590 patients, with 6,116 deaths---
    in other words 1 out of 15 succumbed to the flu. At The Palmer College of Chiropractic in
    Davenport, 1635 flu cases were adjustd, with only one fatility. Outside of Davenport,
    chiropractors adjusted 4,735 flu cases, wit only six deaths--1 out of 866. In 1919, Palmer
    published "The Flu & You". The ratio of flu cases cared for versus deaths wee as follw: Medical
    care: 1 out of 17 died. Osteopathic care: 1 out of 36 died. Chiropractic care: 1 out of 886."

    My research: According to te 1920 US census, Iowa had a population of
    2.4 million citizens, while Davenport, Iowa had a population of approximately 54,000. Although I
    can't find how many "medical doctors" practiced in Davenport in 1918, it seems like it would
    have had to have been a pretty large number to "see" 93,590 patients over a perhaps a five month
    period, with the majority of cases popping up in maybe only three of those five months.

    Additionally, according to a recent article in the Des Moines, Iowa Register, there were
    approximatly 6,500 deaths attributed to the 1918 Influenza Epidemic in ALL of Iowa. If Dr. Harte's
    figures are correct than Davenport would have had to have been the "epicenter" of that calamity,
    with only 2% of the population, but 94% of the deaths.

    Kathy, you are to be commended for an excellent analysis of the basic claims made in the article and
    showing how they are rubbish.

    Note that a true Altie dismisses you analysis by claiming that they are a mere technicality.

  18. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:40188cbd$0$832$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-

    Quoted message said:


    Having said that, there were no useful treatments for either viral infections or pheumonia or
    respiratory failure secondary to them in the early 1900s.

    Peter Moran


    Did China have a problem with the "Great Flu Epidemic"? If not, why? Might it be that the Chinese
    had effective methods to deal with such?

  19. "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden] Date: 1/28/2004 12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:


    <[email hidden]

    Quoted message said:

    <snip>

    Quoted message said:

    Chiropractic has NEVER performed any rigorous clinical studies, and homeopathy has only ever
    done so in the last decade or so, without very convincing results.

    Quoted message said:

    Peter Moran

    *Substantial* *real* *solid* *convincing* *hard* *clear-cut*


    *reasonable*

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    *significant* *credibile* *compelling*

    ZZzz.

    Truth is if it is not endorsed by *organized medicine*, Peter Moran


    won't

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    believe it.

    God himself could tap Peter on the shoulder and declare otherwise, he


    would

    Quoted message said:

    still be doubtful.

    Brainwashing is very powerful.

    So shall we add "spinal manipulation is a cure for influenza" to your


    nutty

    Quoted message said:

    beliefs, Jan? OK.

    Peter Moran

    Quoted message said:


    Jan


    Dear Mr. Moran, have you ever seen anyone who was treated with Chiropractic, while suffering the
    "Flu"? If you have not, then you simply blow smoke, as you have NO evidence to the contrary.

  20. "mdd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:40188cbd$0$832$61c65585@uq-127creek-reader-

    Quoted message said:


    Having said that, there were no useful treatments for either viral infections or pheumonia or
    respiratory failure secondary to them in the early 1900s.

    Peter Moran


    Did China have a problem with the "Great Flu Epidemic"? If not, why? Might it be that the Chinese
    had effective methods to deal with such?

    However, according to:

    chnm.gmu.edulisteningtowwith.html

    "The Spanish influenza was not limited to the United States and Europe. It took hold in North Africa
    as early as May, Russia in June, India in July, and then China, New Zealand, and the Philippines in
    the next few months."

    You should do a bit of reading on the net and see that it seems that China is the source of most
    flu strains.

    (No, I will not give you another URL, as you have yet to demonstrate that you even bother to
    read them.)

    Now, can YOU document that the Flu Pandemic was as you claim in China? Remember, this is a claim
    that YOU made, and your proof is to be readily available, and verifiable. "My mommy told me so" is
    not proof.

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