running in cold

On 12 Jan 2004 07:27:00 -0800, [email hidden] (Joel Markovitz)

Quoted message said:

Hello fellow runners,

I've been trying to maintain my running schedule as the weather has turned colder. I don't like
treadmills or the track, so I'm braving it and goung outside.

I've got all the right winter garb -- wicking base layers, a good jacket, hat, mask, etc. However,
last few times I went outside, like this past Saturday when it was only in the 30s,

I thought you said cold weather?

Quoted message said:

I get a cold the next day.

I was wondering what is the best way to breathe during the winter, thru the nose or mouth. I follow
my trainers advice to breathe in the nose and out the mouth but maybe that is what is causing me to
catch cold. Any advice would be most helpful. Thanks, Joel

On the more serious side, and not being a doctor, I'd like to hear from others on how
"catching a cold" and "running in the cold" could even be realated. Our mother always said
"don't go outside without a coat on or you'll catch a cold" Yet I find that hard to believe.
Seems that the only way to "catch a cold would be to find the cold virus(s), which is
unlikely floating around outside on your favorite running path. OTOH is it possible that
such actions like "getting cold" combined with running weaken our immune systems and make us
more susceptable to the cold virus(s)?

~Matt

In article said:

On the more serious side, and not being a doctor, I'd like to hear from others on how "catching a
cold" and "running in the cold" could even be realated. Our mother always said "don't go outside
without a coat on or you'll catch a cold" Yet I find that hard to believe. Seems that the only way
to "catch a cold would be to find the cold virus(s), which is unlikely floating around outside on
your favorite running path. OTOH is it possible that such actions like "getting cold" combined
with running weaken our immune systems and make us more susceptable to the cold virus(s)?

I think that's it. The cold alone doesn't do anything. Walk around in Antarctica without a coat and
you'll get frostbite, but no colds sice there aren't any viruses floating around there. Or so I've
been told.

--Harold Buck

"I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

- Homer J. Simpson

In article said:

On 12 Jan 2004 07:27:00 -0800, [email hidden] (Joel Markovitz) wrote:

Quoted message said:

On the more serious side, and not being a doctor, I'd like to hear from others on how
"catching a cold" and "running in the cold" could even be realated. Our mother always said
"don't go outside without a coat on or you'll catch a cold" Yet I find that hard to believe.

I think you're right. The reason the cold season is in fall/winter has to do with humidity (the
weather is more comfortable for the viruses). As far as prevention is concerned, a little hygeine
goes a long way:

niaid.nih.govcold.htmOpen ↗

Prevention

Handwashing is the simplest and most effective way to keep from getting rhinovirus colds. Not
touching the nose or eyes is another. Individuals with colds should always sneeze or cough into a
facial tissue, and promptly throw it away.

diet-and-health.netCommonCold.htmlOpen ↗

Although many people are convinced that a cold results from exposure to cold weather, or from
getting chilled or overheated, NIAID (National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)
grantees have found that these conditions have little or no effect on the development or severity
of a cold.

Quoted message said:

Seems that the only way to "catch a cold would be to find the cold virus(s), which is unlikely
floating around outside on your favorite running path.

Doubtful (see URLS)

Quoted message said:

OTOH is it possible that such actions like "getting cold" combined with running weaken our immune
systems and make us more susceptable to the cold virus(s)?

Not unless you're overtrained.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

You might want to look for a new trainer. Did you ask him/her what the reasonsing for that was? Why
that might have a beneficial effect on cold weather running? Sounds RIDICULOUS to me. The air you
breathe in when it is below freezing is warmed up dramatically as it enters your personal space. You
need have no worry about cold air causing you real physical problems, as far as the respiratory
system is concerned.

You may be suffering from dry air and your sinuses are becoming congested/inflamed as a
reaction/result. Try some of those nasal moisture sprays after running/the next day? Make sure your
house humidifier is working properly. But as for cold air giving you a cold
- nah - germs/viruses give you colds, and you encounter more of them indoors than out.

I run all winter long outdoors, I'll never run indoors/treadmill unless its sleeting/freezing rain.
This weekend I ran outdoors in temps down to 5F for an hour at a time - no problems. Been doing it
since I was 13. (38)

[email hidden] (Joel Markovitz) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Hello fellow runners,

I've been trying to maintain my running schedule as the weather has turned colder. I don't like
treadmills or the track, so I'm braving it and goung outside.

I've got all the right winter garb -- wicking base layers, a good jacket, hat, mask, etc. However,
last few times I went outside, like this past Saturday when it was only in the 30s, I get a cold
the next day.

The two are totally unrelated.

Quoted message said:

I was wondering what is the best way to breathe during the winter, thru the nose or mouth. I
follow my trainers advice to breathe in the nose and out the mouth but maybe that is what is
causing me to catch

Your trainer is an idiot. You breath in and out through your mouth. In fact once you get going
fairly fast you'll find that you do breath in through your nose *and* mouth. Despite what Ozzie
posts and your trainer about nose breathing there is no real benefit while running to breathing in
through your nose. The nose has some ability to reduce particules that enter your lungs, the nose
cannot keep every germ from entering your body.

Quoted message said:

cold. Any advice would be most helpful. Thanks, Joel

You get a cold because you are exposed to a germ which your body tries to rid itself of. It does
that in numerous ways not limited to causing your lungs to produce phlem. You can't catch a cold
by going outside on a cold day. The only reason the two events are related are because during cold
weather humans tend to spend more time inside where the germs circulate. They infect one person
and that person sneezes or coughs and the germs get airborn at which point you breath them in and
get infected.

Often when we exercise outside we come back in with sniffles or coughs. This is just the body
reacting to exercise it isn't a cold.

If I got a cold whenever I went outside to run in the cold I'd have a cold that would last from
November through April.

my $0.02 Andy

Joel Markovitz said:

Hello fellow runners,

I've been trying to maintain my running schedule as the weather has turned colder. I don't like
treadmills or the track, so I'm braving it and goung outside.

I've got all the right winter garb -- wicking base layers, a good jacket, hat, mask, etc. However,
last few times I went outside, like this past Saturday when it was only in the 30s, I get a cold
the next day.

were you tired and your immune system broken down from other reasons? I think the last time I ran in
30F and above was in October, maybe early Nov. Most of my recent runs are in the -5F to +23F range
with windchills ranging down to -14F.

Quoted message said:

I was wondering what is the best way to breathe during the winter, thru the nose or mouth.

I breathe through mouth since nose doesn't usually have the capacity in winter. When it's cold (+10F
and below), I use a balaclava (loose weave in mouth area) to cover mouth and/or nose to help
preserve moisture and warm air.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

On 1/12/04 2:21 PM, in article, "AMH" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

You get a cold because you are exposed to a germ which your body tries to rid itself of. It does
that in numerous ways not limited to causing your lungs to produce phlem. You can't catch a cold
by going outside on a cold day. The only reason the two events are related are because during cold
weather humans tend to spend more time inside where the germs circulate. They infect one person
and that person sneezes or coughs and the germs get airborn at which point you breath them in and
get infected.

Often when we exercise outside we come back in with sniffles or coughs. This is just the body
reacting to exercise it isn't a cold.

OK, I'm going back to Mom's advice on this one. Not everyone else's mom - my mom - the one who is a
trained medical professional.

I must be the only kid alive who NEVER heard "don't go outside without a hat because you'll catch a
cold". Instead, mom has consistently insisted that the only reason winter is cold and flu season is
simply because people are inside breathing on each other all winter. This obviously makes the
transmission of viruses and "bugs" more common. Exposing your body to cold weather has nothing to
do with it.

Incidentally, she also insists there is no such thing as the "24 hour flu". Supposedly there is no
way a body can become infected, react, expel a virus, and recover in 24 hours. The thing we commonly
refer to as "24 hour flu" is actually your basic, run of the mill, mild case of food poisoning.

That's my opinion and mom is always right, so I'm sticking with it.

;-)

John

"AMH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thru the nose or mouth. I follow my trainers advice to breathe in the nose and out the mouth but
maybe that is what is causing me to catch

Your trainer is an idiot. You breath in and out through your mouth. In fact once you get going
fairly fast you'll find that you do breath in through your nose *and* mouth. Despite what Ozzie
posts and your trainer about nose breathing there is no real benefit while running to breathing in
through your nose.

Agree all the comments about colds - the virus doesn't know whether your mouth is open or not.

However, there is a fair bit of evidence that breathing through the mouth makes you more likely to
overbreathe and thereby more likely to get asthma. Certainly athletes who get exercise-induced
asthma (whatever its cause) can reduce or even eliminate it by breathing through the nose for as
long as possible - at least while warming up.

For those like me who usually get worse exercise-induced asthma in cold weather, nose breathing is
essential during training as well. Once CO2 levels build up then mouth breathing is possible with no
adverse effects.

Donovan Rebbechi said:

In article said:

On 12 Jan 2004 07:27:00 -0800, [email hidden] (Joel Markovitz) wrote:

Quoted message said:

On the more serious side, and not being a doctor, I'd like to hear from others on how
"catching a cold" and "running in the cold" could even be realated. Our mother always said
"don't go outside without a coat on or you'll catch a cold" Yet I find that hard to believe.

I think you're right. The reason the cold season is in fall/winter has to do with humidity (the
weather is more comfortable for the viruses). As far as prevention is concerned, a little hygeine
goes a long way:

niaid.nih.govcold.htmOpen ↗

Prevention

Handwashing is the simplest and most effective way to keep from getting rhinovirus colds. Not
touching the nose or eyes is another. Individuals with colds should always sneeze or cough into a
facial tissue, and promptly throw it away.

diet-and-health.netCommonCold.htmlOpen ↗

Although many people are convinced that a cold results from exposure to cold weather, or from
getting chilled or overheated, NIAID (National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases)
grantees have found that these conditions have little or no effect on the development or severity
of a cold.

Quoted message said:

Seems that the only way to "catch a cold would be to find the cold virus(s), which is unlikely
floating around outside on your favorite running path.

Doubtful (see URLS)

Quoted message said:

OTOH is it possible that such actions like "getting cold" combined with running weaken our immune
systems and make us more susceptable to the cold virus(s)?

Not unless you're overtrained.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

I read an article somewhere about a doctor that "joking" could predict when the "Ironman"
season was close as upper respiratory infections in his "athletic" patients rose
prescipitously. I guess you could say these guess are "overtrained" continuosly though. So
how's this for an explanation of the cold. A person goes on a a run in the cold. Gets back
home and enters the dry cool air of the home were the cold virus(s) seem to flourish. The
runners nose is running at first, from being cold, so He/She is constantly blow/wiping. Soon
however the dry air combined with the thinner runnier mucous caused by running, of the nose
dries out leaving the nose dryer than normal and less protected. The nasal passages are now
ripe for virual infection? Dry because of rapid change from runny to dry and presented with
unusually high amount of the virus due to wiping/blowing. Just as WAG though.

~Matt

Buud said:

"AMH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thru the nose or mouth. I follow my trainers advice to breathe in the nose and out the mouth
but maybe that is what is causing me to catch

Your trainer is an idiot. You breath in and out through your mouth. In fact once you get going
fairly fast you'll find that you do breath in through your nose *and* mouth. Despite what Ozzie
posts and your trainer about nose breathing there is no real benefit while running to breathing
in through your nose.

Agree all the comments about colds - the virus doesn't know whether your mouth is open or not.

However, there is a fair bit of evidence that breathing through the mouth makes you more likely to
overbreathe

What is "overbreathing?"

Quoted message said:

and thereby more likely to get asthma. Certainly athletes who get exercise-induced asthma
(whatever its cause) can reduce or even eliminate it by breathing through the nose for as long as
possible - at least while warming up.

For those like me who usually get worse exercise-induced asthma in cold weather, nose breathing is
essential during training as well. Once CO2 levels build

Once CO2 levels build up? In what? Your blood? I'd hope not?

Quoted message said:

up then mouth breathing is possible with no adverse effects.

My wife has excercised induced asthma. What she's discoverd is that it has nothing to due
with nose or mouth breathing but rather air temperature. Breathing thru the mouth allows
larger volumes of air to get to the lungs sooner and at a colder temperature than breathing
thru the nose. Simply running at a slow enough pace and or wearing a scarf or mouth cover of
some sort aids and or eliminates with the asthma symptoms. I think the issue is that the
lining of the lungs are simply prone to irritation and cold air helps that along. I'm not
sure what you're speaking of when you say "Once CO2 levels build up then mouth breathing is
possible with no adverse effects." My wife will slowly deteriorate if not properly outfitted
for cold weather and or tries to run to hard. If she continues to push it eventually the
asthma will become so bad that she must stop running and do her inhaler. No level of
"warming up" seems to alleviate the problem. The colder the temperature the worse the
problem becomes.

~Matt

Thanks for all this advice. Sounds like there are some hard-core winter runners out there. I'll
admit, I hate the cold but detest treadmills/tracks even more, so I'm trying to get this cold
weather running down. I think it was 'Old Timer' who suggested that I don't really have a cold, but
perhaps just nasal inflammation. I'll try some spray and try breathing thru the mouth. Haven't been
out in really cold (less than 20) because I was getting over the last bout when we had the cold snap
here in Chicago. Thanks again folks!!

John Hardt <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Incidentally, she also insists there is no such thing as the "24 hour flu". Supposedly there is no
way a body can become infected, react, expel a virus, and recover in 24 hours. The thing we
commonly refer to as "24 hour flu" is actually your basic, run of the mill, mild case of food
poisoning.

The first day or two of the infection, you didn't feel the effects. Then it hits hard in one day
just before your immune system manages to defeat it. So yes, there's no 24 hour flu.

[email hidden] (Joel Markovitz) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like there are some hard-core winter runners out there.

Ken Davico, any cold weather running advice from you?

"AMH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

thru the nose or mouth. I follow my trainers advice to breathe in the nose and out the mouth but
maybe that is what is causing me to catch

Your trainer is an idiot. You breath in and out through your mouth. In fact once you get going
fairly fast you'll find that you do breath in through your nose *and* mouth. Despite what Ozzie
posts and your

I have found that if I breath too much through my mouth while running I get side cramps. Where as if
I concentrate more on breathing in through my nose/out through my mouth the cramps subside and
disappear.

Not very scientific - it's just perception. Don't know what it would prove even if it was done
"scientifically".

-CF

This topic was on my brain last night, so I did a little (very little) bit of research. I couldn't
do any empirical testing because it was very nearly 50F when I ran yesterday, but it'll be very cold
before the end of the week.

When you exercise, your nasal passages open up. I'm no doctor, but exercise has a vasoconstricting
effect on the tissues in your sinuses. I REALLY know about this because a face plant into a car
during a bike vs. car accident caused me to have a permanent closure in the right side of my nose -
no air ever gets through - except when exercising - the passages open up a bit.

Additionally, exposure to cold air causes more mucus to be produced to counteract the drying effect
of moving all of that additional air over the surfaces of your nasal cavity and throat/mouth, and to
protect the nasal passages from cold damage.

Most every runner has noticed the effect. Sometimes when running in the cold your nose will run
like a faucet. Indeed, its just a reaction to cold air, you don't need to be exercising to notice
it - just sit outside and watch a football game in the cold, or walk the dog. Your nose will
start to run.

Is it this "nose running" that has you thinking you have a cold? Your "faucet" may take longer to
turn off than others. Are you getting stuffy? Might be exposure to dry outside air - maybe you have
a hypersensitivity to cold, dry air.

But you can't get a cold simply from running outside. Ever had a cold that lasted only one day? Real
colds don't last a day.

Might be that you just need regular exposure and your body will adjust. Might be a nasal spray.
After experimenting with just a saline spray - give Afrin a shot or two, it might not solve the
problem, but reduce the symptoms.

Hope this helps some.

"Buud" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

However, there is a fair bit of evidence that breathing through the mouth makes you more likely to
overbreathe and thereby more likely to get asthma. Certainly athletes who get exercise-induced
asthma (whatever its cause) can reduce or even eliminate it by breathing through the nose for as
long as possible - at least while warming up.

For those like me who usually get worse exercise-induced asthma in cold weather, nose breathing is
essential during training as well. Once CO2 levels build up then mouth breathing is possible with
no adverse effects.

I have exercise/allergy induced asthma and the cold defiantly makes a difference. However I have not
had to use my inhaler once since being on advair.

I can't talk about the cold this winter as I have decided that this January and February would be
better spent in the weight room and swimming pool than trying to keep a running schedule.

-CF

<MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:03:19 GMT, "Buud" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

What is "overbreathing?"

Taking in more oxygen than your body can cope with - contrary to popular belief and even medical
opinion in the UK, there is a limit to the amount of oxygen your body can cope with. Ask any
biologist.

Quoted message said:

Once CO2 levels build up? In what? Your blood? I'd hope not?

Yes - in your blood - if you overbreathe, then you increase O2 and reduce
CO2. Once CO2 gets too low your body responds by trying to cut the flow of O2 - hence why
asthmatics noses block and ultimately your alveoli do too. You actually need CO2 to survive -
for example it is CO2 levels that control breathing rates. Asthmatics tend to live with too
low CO2 levels because they overbreathe (gulping air in the mouth and yawning are examples).

Quoted message said:

My wife has excercised induced asthma. What she's discoverd is that it has nothing to due with
nose or mouth breathing but rather air temperature. Breathing thru the mouth allows larger volumes
of air to get to the lungs sooner and at a colder temperature than breathing thru the nose. Simply
running at a slow enough pace and or wearing a scarf or mouth cover of some sort aids and or
eliminates with the asthma symptoms. I think the issue is that the lining of the lungs are simply
prone to irritation and cold air helps that along. I'm not sure what you're speaking of when you
say "Once CO2 levels build up then mouth breathing is possible with no adverse effects." My wife
will slowly deteriorate if not properly outfitted for cold weather and or tries to run to hard. If
she continues to push it eventually the asthma will become so bad that she must stop running and
do her inhaler. No level of "warming up" seems to alleviate the problem. The colder the
temperature the worse the problem becomes.

I am not aware of studies that support your wife's theory but that is not to say it is wrong. I
think if it works for her then carry on. But she might like to try focussing on nose breathing or
certainly avoid gulping in air which many asthmatics and even athletes do. See bibh.orgbibh.orgOpen ↗

Buud said:

<MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:03:19 GMT, "Buud" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

What is "overbreathing?"

Taking in more oxygen than your body can cope with

Never heard it called "overbreathing" always "hyperventalation".

Quoted message said:

- contrary to popular belief and even medical opinion in the UK, there is a limit to the amount of
oxygen your body can cope with. Ask any biologist.

Seems obvious that taking in too much oxygen is a possibility. Ask any anyone who used to breath
alot and nearly passed out before trying to make a new "breath holding" record as a kid. I just have
a hard time believing this as a "trigger" for ashtma.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Once CO2 levels build up? In what? Your blood? I'd hope not?

Yes - in your blood - if you overbreathe, then you increase O2 and reduce
CO2. Once CO2 gets too low your body responds by trying to cut the flow of O2 - hence why
asthmatics noses block and ultimately your alveoli do too. You actually need CO2 to survive -
for example it is CO2 levels that control breathing rates. Asthmatics tend to live with too
low CO2 levels because they overbreathe (gulping air in the mouth and yawning are examples).

Do you have any papers/Studies/articles on this? My understanding of asthma is that it is
primarily caused by an inflamation in the lungs. I've never heard anyone suffereing from CO2
induced asthma. I'm not an expert on the subject but a quick search pulled this page up.

asthma.org.ukfactsheet01.phpOpen ↗

With this quote:

"On the other hand, there is no evidence that a person with stable asthma is constantly
overbreathing."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My wife has excercised induced asthma. What she's discoverd is that it has nothing to due with
nose or mouth breathing but rather air temperature. Breathing thru the mouth allows larger
volumes of air to get to the lungs sooner and at a colder temperature than breathing thru the
nose. Simply running at a slow enough pace and or wearing a scarf or mouth cover of some sort
aids and or eliminates with the asthma symptoms. I think the issue is that the lining of the
lungs are simply prone to irritation and cold air helps that along. I'm not sure what you're
speaking of when you say "Once CO2 levels build up then mouth breathing is possible with no
adverse effects." My wife will slowly deteriorate if not properly outfitted for cold weather and
or tries to run to hard. If she continues to push it eventually the asthma will become so bad
that she must stop running and do her inhaler. No level of "warming up" seems to alleviate the
problem. The colder the temperature the worse the problem becomes.

I am not aware of studies that support your wife's theory but that is not to say it is wrong. I
think if it works for her then carry on. But she might like to try focussing on nose breathing or
certainly avoid gulping in air which many asthmatics and even athletes do. See bibh.orgbibh.orgOpen ↗

As I said. Nose breathing obviously works, but not for CO2 reasons. Breathing thru the nose
allows the air to warm longer and add moisture and causes less irritation to the lining of
the lungs. The same goes for covering the mouth, which allows a greater retention of
moisture and warmer air temps.

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Is it this "nose running" that has you thinking you have a cold?

// Thats exactly it, but it doesn't start right away. I was fine the evening // after my run --
didn't start having nasal issues until the next day.

Your "faucet" may take longer to turn off than others. Are you getting

Quoted message said:

stuffy? Might be exposure to dry outside air - maybe you have a hypersensitivity to cold, dry air.

Might be a nasal spray. After experimenting with just a saline

Quoted message said:

spray - give Afrin a shot or two, it might not solve the problem, but reduce the symptoms.

Hope this helps some.

// Actually, your two postings have help a lot. From what people have posted // here and what I've
found out from fellow runner friends off-line, nasal // passages are more susceptible to irritation
and inflammation when breathing // cold, dry air through the nose. I think this is what happened to
me. I'm // runny, got the sinus pressure thing going on, and the throat is still a bit // raw. But I
bought some nasal spray and that helps it feel better. In // cold runs I'll remember to go through
the mouth. I have the EI Asthma and // know that its (apparantly??) better to breathe through the
nose, however, // I'll do that in the summer.