Triathlon · Public discussion

running in cold

Started by Joel Markovitz · · Last activity · 45 posts · 6,441 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
Triathlon
Published
12 January 2004
Last activity
21 January 2004
Original author
Joel Markovitz
Posts
45
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
6,441
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 41–45 of 45
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. Buud said:

    <MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Do you have any papers/Studies/articles on this? My understanding of asthma is that it is
    primarily caused by an inflamation in the lungs. I've never heard anyone suffereing from CO2
    induced asthma.

    Do a search for Buteyko - a Russian Doctor. He discovered that LACK of CO2 (by fractions of a
    percent) causes the breathing system to try to correct the problem by cutting down on breathing.
    First your nose blocks, then you get wheezy etc.

    I will do that. I also hope that Josh will comment on you statements here.

    Quoted message said:


    [Very little support for his theories in the West with the notable exception of Australia. Indeed
    there is a lot of hostility from the Asthma charities - usually a sign you are on the right track
    in my view. Indeed it exposes the corruption of the charities that are funded by drug companies -
    the Buteyko method requires no or substantially reduced drugs. ]

    It can also be a sign of just plain old quackery. Just because someone says that "science"
    doesn't support something does not mean they are trying to protect there cash flow.

    Quoted message said:


    If you have exercise induced asthma it is well worth trying - I know of noone who has tried it who
    has had no success. I know of cases where it works for other types of asthma although the success
    rate seems to be less.

    Quoted message said:

    With this quote:

    "On the other hand, there is no evidence that a person with stable asthma is constantly
    overbreathing."

    Indeed there is evidence - Buteyko did studies. You can do it yourself - watch any asthmatic - they
    tend to gulp in air, the yawn a lot as well.

    Well My wife is an asthmatic. At one time getting very severe. Using the "emergency",
    Ibutural<SP> inhaler up to 4-5 times a day just to get air. I never really noticed her
    "gulping" for air. And she yawns much less than I do. Since that tiem she has seen a
    specialist and is now on some "longer term" control she uses 2X a day and rarely has to use
    teh "Emergency" one now, maybe 2-3 x a week.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    As I said. Nose breathing obviously works, but not for CO2 reasons. Breathing thru the nose
    allows the air to warm longer and add moisture and causes less irritation to the lining of the
    lungs. The same goes for covering the mouth, which allows a greater retention of moisture and
    warmer air temps.

    Your view is the view put out by the traditional Western medics but there is very little evidence
    that this is a fundamental reason - it may assist once you have it but there is no evidence that
    people living in warm dry climates have less asthma than those in wet and cold. But, if it works
    why not use it.

    I can't say that there is or isn't evidence, I would guess there is as a proffesed MD,
    posted nearly identical opinion. OTOH experiance has shown this to be true for me and I
    don't have asthma. If I run in extremely cold weather without cover my mouth and or
    breathing thru my nose, my throat gets irritated and I eventually end up coughing. I would
    suspect that an ashmatic, whom I'm assuming has a more "sensitive" tissue lining, woudl be
    more suseptable to this effect. Just guessing though.

    Quoted message said:


    However according to Buteyko it is more than that and he bases his approach on a rigorous approach
    of breath control - by doing that, there are even greater benefits. The scientific evidence is
    clear - as any biologist knows, CO2 aids the transfer of O2 to the muscles and as someone else
    noted, CO2 is what causes you to breathe in the first place.

    Another question "CO2 helps the transfer fo O2 to the muscle"? How does that work? Yes CO2
    is the "Take a breath indicator" however it is a waste product is it not? Again how is it
    taht it help in transfering O2?

    Quoted message said:

    Overbreathing reduces
    CO2.

    Not breathing increases CO2, does that cause and ashmatic attack?

    Quoted message said:

    The easiest way to control breathing is to use the nose. However to get the maximum benefit you
    need to do more than that.

    I believe the easiest way to control breathing is to simply not breath so much. Second I
    believe we have a tendancy to breath thru the nose at various time for other reason that
    "breath control". Better, moisture adn temperature control come to mind. None the less I
    will make an attempt to look up the studies you have suggested and see what I can find out.
    I am as usual very skeptical though.

    ~Matt

  2. "Josh Steinberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Buud wrote:

    You are mixing up two completely different physiological phenomena.

    You can breath as deeply and quickly as you want, and your oxygen level


    will

    Quoted message said:

    not change a bit, always pO2 appx 100 mm in arterial blood, period.

    However, CO2 discharge from the body via breathing is proportional to how


    much

    Quoted message said:

    you breathe. Thus, if you breath deeply and quickly, moving much more air


    in

    Quoted message said:

    and out of the lungs than usual, you will "blow off" much more CO2 from


    your

    Quoted message said:

    body than usual. Oxygen level is unaffected. When you reduce the CO2 in


    your

    Quoted message said:

    blood, the acid-base balance is thrown off. Lose CO2, pH in blood goes up (more base, blood
    becomes alkalotic). pH disturbance is what makes you


    feel

    Quoted message said:

    woozy and dizzy when you blow off too much CO2 via "hyperventilating". If necessary, your body
    vigorously defends a proper acid-base balance by you passing out so that your mental will to
    hyperventilate stops, you return


    to

    Quoted message said:

    normal breathing rate and volume, and the pH balance is restored. Again,


    this

    Quoted message said:

    has nothing to do with oxygen.

    I think you are doing the mixing up. I was talking about transfer to the muscles that is affected by
    CO2 levels.

    Quoted message said:


    And nothing to do with asthma. Asthmatics do not live with low CO2


    levels,

    Quoted message said:

    they live with normal CO2 levels. If they are having an attack and


    breathing

    Quoted message said:

    poorly, they move less air, therefore discharge less CO2, and thus CO2


    rises.

    Quoted message said:

    (then they get less oxygen, their metabolism becomes anaerobic, they make


    more

    Quoted message said:

    lactic acid, and their HCO3 is consumed to buffer the acid, thus CO2


    levels

    Quoted message said:

    eventually fall; point is, there is no predictable CO2 change in


    asthmatics,

    Quoted message said:

    and when well controlled, CO2 is perfectly normal.)

    There you are totally wrong. Studies in Australia have shown the reverse to be true when not having
    an attack. Your reaction is typical of many Doctors - to criticise something without having read the
    evidence and not being open-minded about alternative explanations. Medicine still has a long way to
    go in terms of its ability to search for new ways of doing things that are not subject to the
    corruption of the drug companies.

  3. Buud said:

    <MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Do you have any papers/Studies/articles on this? My understanding of asthma is that it is
    primarily caused by an inflamation in the lungs. I've never heard anyone suffereing from CO2
    induced asthma.

    Do a search for Buteyko - a Russian Doctor. He discovered that LACK of CO2 (by fractions of a
    percent) causes the breathing system to try to correct the problem by cutting down on breathing.
    First your nose blocks, then you get wheezy etc.

    Ok did a little, very little, research. Other than several "infomercials" I found
    this study.

    mja.com.aubowler.html

    After reading the study, I must admit that it doesn't completely rule out the possibility that
    Asthma is CO2 induced. However even though large reduction of, inhaled medication was noticed,
    apparently both groups had similar oral medication throughtout.

    The "Discussion" section was interesting as it pointed out several flaws in the study itself and
    pointed out other potential reasons for the reduction in inhaled medication.

    All in all I'm by no means convinced yet, but as Tim, I believe, stated since we don't know a whole
    lot about what is going on it's probably too early to rule out your method.

    OTOH this study, IMO, hardly qualifies as a glowing reccommendation for BBT.

    Another point is this was a fairly small study on a fairly specific group. Total particpants 39,
    19 control 20 BBT. These were selected out of a larger group of which some were rejected for
    various reasons.

    None the less I'm still looking.

    ~Matt

  4. Slightly different thread perhaps, but my coach always told me that immediately after exercising
    your immune system takes a bit of a dip and you are particularly vulnerable to picking up colds. One
    of his suggestions is to avoid crowded places for an hour or so after exercising, such as bars,
    buses and trains. I train before work most days and then used to use public transport
    (underground/subway followed by a bus) to get to work and was constantly picking up colds. Since I
    switched to using a motorbike to get to work about a year ago I have noticed that I hardly ever get
    ill anymore.

    (and before anyone says I should be cycling to work I have to carry a laptop most days, work in a
    lot of different locations where there aren't always showers or lockers and have to wear a suit. I
    tried cycling and it just got too complicated!)

    [email hidden] (Joel Markovitz) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Is it this "nose running" that has you thinking you have a cold?

    // Thats exactly it, but it doesn't start right away. I was fine the evening // after my run --
    didn't start having nasal issues until the next day.

    Your "faucet" may take longer to turn off than others. Are you getting

    Quoted message said:

    stuffy? Might be exposure to dry outside air - maybe you have a hypersensitivity to cold,
    dry air.

    Might be a nasal spray. After experimenting with just a saline

    Quoted message said:

    spray - give Afrin a shot or two, it might not solve the problem, but reduce the symptoms.

    Hope this helps some.

    // Actually, your two postings have help a lot. From what people have posted // here and what I've
    found out from fellow runner friends off-line, nasal // passages are more susceptible to
    irritation and inflammation when breathing // cold, dry air through the nose. I think this is what
    happened to me. I'm // runny, got the sinus pressure thing going on, and the throat is still a bit
    // raw. But I bought some nasal spray and that helps it feel better. In // cold runs I'll remember
    to go through the mouth. I have the EI Asthma and // know that its (apparantly??) better to
    breathe through the nose, however, // I'll do that in the summer.

  5. <MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Sat, 17 Jan 2004 14:52:28 GMT, "Buud" <[email hidden]> wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    After reading the study, I must admit that it doesn't completely rule out the possibility that
    Asthma is CO2 induced. However even though large reduction of, inhaled medication was noticed,
    apparently both groups had similar oral medication throughtout.

    The "Discussion" section was interesting as it pointed out several flaws in the study itself and
    pointed out other potential reasons for the reduction in inhaled medication.

    All in all I'm by no means convinced yet, but as Tim, I believe, stated since we don't know a
    whole lot about what is going on it's probably too early to rule out your method.

    Agreed - the National Asthma Campaign in the UK said they would do a study but that was 2 years ago.
    I am not aware of anyone else conducting a study except for one GP in Glasgow who has had fantastic
    results but it is not a perfect trial. My own info is that everyone I know who has exercise induced
    asthma including myself has found this works most of the time. Not all of the time in my case if
    there is a lot of air pollution. But it is enough evidence to be worth trying.

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.