SPD Agony!

Artemisia said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
which I nearly did the other day). I thought this would be the
ultimate comfort ride as there is none of the pain in the crotch or
wrists that used to terminate previous rides on two wheels. But that
pain was trifling in comparison to this foot agony.

The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.
Every pedal stroke is so excrucuating that I have to stop every 3 km
or so just to try and get circulation going again. I cannot walk in
them at all - very slippery and stiff, despite the fact that these are
supposed to be used on trail where one is often off the bike.

I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.

Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
like the fast route to amputation.

Your experiences?

Thanks.

EFR
In deepest Provence

sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
your shoes are not stiff enough- you are going to have to invest in
better shoes

"Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.

Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
they're under my arches.

Jim J

Artemisia writtificated

Quoted message said:

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.

Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
essential you try them on before buying.

When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my toes
a little.

For touring a shoe with a more flexible sole is desirable - this makes it
easier to walk in.

Raaman writtificated

Quoted message said:

sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
your shoes are not stiff enough

This is unlikely in this case as her shoes[1] are about as stiff (and as
good) as mountain bike shoes get.

Fiddling with the cleat position on the off-chance that'll help, and
loosening the velcro in case the shoe is too small is prolly the best thing
to do until replacements can be bought. Alternatively it is perfectly
possible to cycle with normal shoes on, but this may lead to an Accident.

[1] <www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=26123>

Jim said:

"Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.

Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
they're under my arches.

Jim J

They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
and the holes are only in one place.

I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it
when it starts hurting.

Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
comfortable they are!

EFR
Isle sur Sorgue

Artemisia said:

They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
and the holes are only in one place.

Mine only have two screw holes, but they screw into a plate which can
slide back and forth (slotted holes in the sole of the shoe itself).

Under your toes sounds too far forward - under the balls of your feet
would be better. If you're bending your foot too much and putting a lot
of force through your foot then it will hurt quite a lot (like running
around on your tip toes all the time).

Quoted message said:

I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it when
it starts hurting.

I often get a lot of numbness in my feet when riding (only notice when I
stop and take shoes off), and my feet also go cold. I think it's just
because the laces are tight: LBS told me that feet swell a bit when being
used so if my laces are tight when I set off then they'll be too tight
after a few miles!

Also, are your innersoles worn? I replaced mine with cheap ones when I
washed the shoes. They were ok for a while but now I can feel the cleat
through the shoe as they've worn a bit. The original insoles were really
rigid but the new ones were really soft.

Not hurting on an upright bike though is puzzling me though!

peter

Artemisia said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

It might be worth trying some padded inserts, esp. if tissues help.

Do you have funny shaped feet? If your shoes claim to be ergonomic, then
they might fit 90% of people really well, and be terrible for the other
10%.

As for moving the cleats, they are often attached to a plate in the
shoe, which can slide forwards and backwards.

Martin.

In article said:

They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
and the holes are only in one place.

Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
forward and back at least a little bit.

Quoted message said:

Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
comfortable they are!

No shoe shape can be really comfortable for everyone - feet are different,
they aren't all just the same but scaled up and down a bit in size.

"Mark T"
<pleasegivegenerously@warmail*turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com.invalid> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Artemisia writtificated

Quoted message said:

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.

I agree with the diagnosis. I suffered from severe burning sensations in the
balls of my feet and initially blamed the lack of padding in my socks. I
bought some padded sports socks and they made the problems worse. I
stumbled across the counter intuitive loosening of the shoe laces solution
by chance.

Quoted message said:

Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
essential you try them on before buying.

When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
toes
a little.

For touring a shoe with a more flexible sole is desirable - this makes it
easier to walk in.

It's not that important if a spare pair of shoes are carried too.

Artemisia, you need to check out three things. Your problems are NOT
the result of poor quality shoes (yours are top quality) or the SPD
system in itself.

FIND NEW SHOES. I believe your shoes do not fit. They should feel
comfortable, period. You describe obviously ill-fitting shoes. Bad
fitting shoes can press nerves and blood vessels and cause all sorts
of problems consistent with your pain.

LOOSEN YOUR SHOES. You may be tightening them too tight. Even with
well-fitting shoes, if they are too tight, you can compress nerves and
blood vessels causing pain, numbness and long term problems.

ADJUST YOUR CLEATS so that they are directly under the balls of your
feet, more or less (maybe a tiny bit forward, maybe a tiny bit
rearward). The bottoms of your shoes have two slots. In those slots
are little nuts that your cleat bolts screw into. If you loosen your
cleat bolts, you can slide them lengthwise along those slots. Every
SPD shoe has these slots because they need to be adjustable.

Unfortunately, you might have injured your feet already by waiting too
long, and rest of the injured areas might be needed. In the mean
time, after you have done the above corrections, you might have to
treat your feet as if they are injured:

Rest as much as possible. Reduce time pedaling, or take more frequent
breaks.

Ice them down after use to ease pain and reduce injury inflamation.

Use an over the counter medicine such as ibuprophen or naproxen as
directed on the package.

Martin Dann said:

Artemisia said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

It might be worth trying some padded inserts, esp. if tissues help.

Do you have funny shaped feet? If your shoes claim to be ergonomic, then
they might fit 90% of people really well, and be terrible for the other
10%.

As for moving the cleats, they are often attached to a plate in the
shoe, which can slide forwards and backwards.

Martin.

My strategy would be to fiddle with the cleat position, loosen the
straps and laces, then wear a cheapish pair of touring shoes in a
generous size, such as specialised sonoma.You might feel you want to get
away from specialised. Decathlon do some. A more flexible comfy shoe
might be the answer. I find that rigid road shoes hurt by the end of a
200km ride, as you might expect if you strapped your feet to a rigid
board for the whole day.

I suppose it could not be that you are sitting on your sciatic nerves or
disturbing blood flow to the legs could it? I have had that problem on
gymn equipment and aeroplane seats, though it does not sound exactly
right except when you wrote that you felt you had to get the circulation
going again.
TerryJ

It sounds like your shoes are too small. Or maybe your pedals, even
though you've gone clipless bent riders tend to pedal less "round"
than wedgie riders and I find a nice big platform around the cleat to
be more comfortable.

That aside, when I first got 'bent I discovered that after an hour or
two with my feet up higher than by butt my toes would go to sleep.
This didn't seem like a big deal as I had spent many long years
conditioning myself so that I could ride a wedgie for hours at a time
and I undertook a similar training regime for my 'bent. Now I try to
spend at least two hours a day with my feet up higher than my butt
while carb-loading and hydrating. (yes that would be in a
barcalounger with a cold beer, you bet)

"Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
torture. This is on a recumbent tadpole trike where the use of SPDs is
required as a safety measure (to prevent running over one's own leg,
which I nearly did the other day). I thought this would be the
ultimate comfort ride as there is none of the pain in the crotch or
wrists that used to terminate previous rides on two wheels. But that
pain was trifling in comparison to this foot agony.

The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.
Every pedal stroke is so excrucuating that I have to stop every 3 km
or so just to try and get circulation going again. I cannot walk in
them at all - very slippery and stiff, despite the fact that these are
supposed to be used on trail where one is often off the bike.

I tried putting a wad of kleenex between the lining of the shoe and
the SPD clip. That improved matters slightly, but I still cannot go
more than about 10km without the most agonizing pain. And the pain
lasts for about half an hour even after I have taken the shoes off.

Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
like the fast route to amputation.

This problem is known as hot foot.

I think others have given you good info.

The thing about shoes (and any bike equipment for that matter) is your never
go off on a tour (where the miles increase a lot) without having throroughly
tested the equipment under the expected conditions (or as close as
possible) - including mileage and tempertature.

Hot foot problems increase as the temps go up.

Sounds as if the shoes are ill-fitting and the cleats are not position far
enough toward your heals.

Taking some Tylenol can be a big help once the problems start. Otherwise,
you just have to stop and get the pressure off the nerves in your feet.

Oh, the position on your feet (high relatively to your butt) on a trike can
result in circulation problems for some people. This is typically not an
issue on an upright. You may be one of those people.

Quoted message said:

sorry to hear of your troubles; my experience suggests to me soles of
your shoes are not stiff enough- you are going to have to invest in
better shoes

IME wearing anything that's a) stiff soled and b) a bit on the small side
gives me a lot of pain. I reckon the shoes might be a bit small or laced up
too tight - I know my SPD shoes got a lot comfier when I laced them more
loosely.

"Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Your experiences?

Firstly, if you're having so much trouble clipping in and out, loosen the
spring tension adjuster riiiiight off, it sounds way to tight.

I have wide feet, and whilst I liked spuds, they caused dead toes for me
after 20 or so miles (I'd used straps for years up until then). After 3
different pairs of shoes and various cleat positions, in desperation I went
to the LBS who fitted me out with Look Keo's and a pair of Nike shoes (Nike
don't sell bike kit anymore, sadly). I've never looked back - the shoes are
comfy and after minor fiddling the position is fine and I can do 150 miles
without painful feet.

My only whinge about the Keo system is that the cleats and pedals wear
badly, but it#s a small price to pay for comfort...

Tim
--
We got a thousand points of light | Greetings from Birmingham, UK
For the homeless man | All about me: www.nervouscyclist.org
We got a kinder, gentler, | Is your ISP pimping your data?
Machine gun hand Neil Young | www.badphorm.co.uk

Artemisia said:

Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
be even longer.

Several minutes!!!!??!!!!!!!! There's something very wrong going on -
either with your equipment or your technique. Have the pedal tension low,
experiement more with cleat position, and keep practising.

Quoted message said:

The fact of having to press down into the core of the
pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.

Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

It should never be painful to unclip.

As for pain whilst cycling, you don't get used to it, and you should not
perservere with it indefinitely, but it might just go away on its own.

I also experienced various foot pains when I first used clipless pedals -
even after I had adjusted everything as best as possible - but it did
disappear after a while. Now for 99.9% of the time, my feet feel more
comfortable when I am cycling than when I am walking (in any shoes).

Try different cleat positions, think about whether your seat position is OK
too, and give it a few more rides. If still pain, try different shoes,
maybe different pedals as well. Best of luck.

As well as the cleats being adjustable sideways, you will be able to rotate
them. The direction they point is crucial, and you can only get it really
right by trial and error.

~PB

Roger Zoul said:

This problem is known as hot foot.

Quoted message said:

I think others have given you good info.

Quoted message said:

The thing about shoes (and any bike equipment for that matter) is
your never go off on a tour (where the miles increase a lot) without
having thoroughly tested the equipment under the expected
conditions (or as close as possible) - including mileage and
temperature.

Quoted message said:

Hot foot problems increase as the temps go up.

Quoted message said:

Sounds as if the shoes are ill-fitting and the cleats are not
position far enough toward your heals.

Quoted message said:

Taking some Tylenol can be a big help once the problems start.
Otherwise, you just have to stop and get the pressure off the nerves
in your feet.

Quoted message said:

Oh, the position on your feet (high relatively to your butt) on a
trike can result in circulation problems for some people. This is
typically not an issue on an upright. You may be one of those
people.

Hot foot increases with age as circulation to extremities diminishes.
If susceptible, making sure the foot rises (or fully unloads) the sole
intermittently while pedaling to increase circulation.

Jobst Brandt

On 6 May,

Doki said:

IME wearing anything that's a) stiff soled and b) a bit on the small side
gives me a lot of pain. I reckon the shoes might be a bit small or laced up
too tight - I know my SPD shoes got a lot comfier when I laced them more
loosely.

I got new shoes recently, my previous pair was too big. Half a mile into
first ride I was getting pain in one foot. Slight adjustment to the cleat
cured it. I must adjust the other one slightly.

Tight (well fitting) shoes are probably more critical of cleat position. It's
probably worth trying slight adjustments.

--
BD
Change lycos to yahoo to reply

<[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 6 May,

Doki said:

IME wearing anything that's a) stiff soled and b) a bit on the small side
gives me a lot of pain. I reckon the shoes might be a bit small or laced
up
too tight - I know my SPD shoes got a lot comfier when I laced them more
loosely.

I got new shoes recently, my previous pair was too big. Half a mile into
first ride I was getting pain in one foot. Slight adjustment to the cleat
cured it. I must adjust the other one slightly.

Tight (well fitting) shoes are probably more critical of cleat position.
It's
probably worth trying slight adjustments.

I don't mean pain in particular. I mean pain combined with a bizarre feeling
of slight numbness. In fact, it's more agony.