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SPD Agony!

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Road Cycling
Published
6 May 2008
Last activity
14 May 2008
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Artemisia
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  1. Alan Braggins said:

    You could consider changing to traditional toeclips with straps, but
    I have a suspicion that just doing up a strap tight enough that a foot
    in a recumbent riding position can't possibly fall out will be painfully
    restrictive given your current problems.

    at the bottom of http://www.kinetics-online.co.uk/html/specials.shtml
    there's a Hase product with a heel stirrup, specifically for using on
    recumbents with a toe strap. Never used them, but compared to a
    practised twist in a decent clipless system I imagine they'd be much
    more of a faff getting in and out.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  2. Alan Braggins said:

    But do remember that every time you nudge them, you do have to do them up
    tight enough that you can unclip without wrenching them out of position
    when you try them on the pedals.
    This is probably so obvious to Pete that it went without saying, and
    maybe is to you as well, but I mention it just in case, because it's
    quite embarrassing when you forget. I mean, um, so I hear....

    Good point!

    Less embarrassing on a trike, mind you, you just unlace your shoes and
    step out of them and then try and lever them off the pedal by hand,
    rather than keel over sideways and land in the road, inevitably in front
    of spectators. Still, it'd be better to just do them up properly, mind...

    And a tip for screwing them up in any case is to smear a little grease
    onto the bolt threads before you start. This makes it easier to do them
    up tight, so they don't shift when twisting your foot, but also makes it
    easier to undo them /deliberately/ when it's time to change (or move)
    the cleat.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  3. Artemisia said:
    (Alan Braggins) said:

    Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
    forward and back at least a little bit.

    I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
    caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
    underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
    tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.

    As well as the additional holes, you should find that when you loosen
    the bolts the whole cleat+plate assembly should be able to move around
    (up to a point), though you might have to force it a bit just to free
    it up. This gives you finer adjustment back-to-front as well as
    allowing you to slightly rotate the cleats and move them side-to-side
    a little. It can take quite a while to get them just right so that
    they feel natural.

    As others have said, though, try loosening the laces a little. The
    shoes should be relatively tight, but not uncomfortably so.

    Again, as others have said, it could be the shoes are just too small.
    If your toes can touch the end of the shoe then it's not a good sign.

    Colin

  4. PoB wrote:
    :: "dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    :: news:[email hidden]...
    ::: On May 7, 6:32 am, "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com>
    ::: wrote: The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has
    ::: mentioned yet may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear
    ::: by them.
    ::
    :: I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better
    :: than my shoes (and being British, when it's chilly, I can wear socks
    :: 🙂.
    ::

    Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
    other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
    fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I have
    a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

    I think the best approach is to get well-fitting shoes with very stiff
    soles. They feet must be kept cool and there should be no long-duration
    pressure points.

    On, and the notion of fully unloading the sole intermittently while
    pedaling, while it sounds good, is not something I have been able to achieve
    on long rides.

  5. Artemisia said:
    (Alan Braggins) said:

    Most SPD shoes have two pairs of holes in a plate which can be moved
    forward and back at least a little bit.

    I went back to the hotel room to check. After prying away all the
    caked mud with the multi-tool, I did indeed find two sets of holes
    underneath. I moved the cleats onto the lower pair. We'll see
    tomorrow, short ride, if that makes any difference.

    EFR
    After a wonderful dinner on Isle sur Sorgue

    Seen on a recumbent trike mailing list, these
    (http://www.tri-zone.com/Details.html?cat=69&item=PYPLT) might be a
    useful alternative. Essentially a stiff platform that you bolt your
    cleats to and clip to your pedals, and then you can wear any shoe that
    is comfortable and fix it in with the straps. The heel cup would appear
    to make them suitable for recumbent use.

    --
    Colin

  6. PoB said:
    Quoted message said:

    The long term solution which I'm surprised no-one has mentioned yet
    may be SPD sandals. Many long distance riders swear by them.

    I'd second this. On long rides my sandals are infinitely better than my
    shoes

    Yes, but which ones? Since Shimano stopped making the old two-strap
    SD-60s, I haven't been able to find a comfortable replacement.

  7. Roger Zoul said:

    Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
    other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
    fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I have
    a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

    Artemisia is complaining of numb toes as well as hot foot so I would
    worry about circulation in her case. You are obviously aware how
    important this can be. I don't often get hot foot. When it has hit me
    it has been on long rides in very hot weather. I can confirm that it
    is excruciating but loosening the straps of my shoes does help. People
    in sandals then laugh at me so I'm a little surprised you found they
    don't help. Possibly not the magic bullet I had thought them to be
    though.

    --
    Dave...

  8. David Damerell said:

    Quoting Artemisia <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
    unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet.

    IIRC you're on a recumbent trike? Suggest abandoning the clips and tying
    your feet to the pedals to avoid leg suck - obviously if you're just
    strapping them down, you can strap them down in a different position.

    Aye. What we did after The Lad fell off the front of the Pino (semi
    recumbent tandem) and borked his collar bone was to use short toe
    clips and heel loops made from lengths of shock cord.

    'course, these days he fits my shoes and is going to have a go with
    SPDs soon.

    --

    Tim

    I understand very little of what's being discussed
    but for some reason it's fascinating.

    (Jon Thompson, urs)

  9. "dkahn400" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    Well, I'm a diabetic and suffer from hot foot, but don't have any issues
    other than on long rides in the heat. I can do centuriers in the
    fall/spring and do not suffer hot foot. When the temps go up I do. I
    have
    a pair of well-fitting SPD sandals (Lakes). They don't help.

    Artemisia is complaining of numb toes as well as hot foot so I would
    worry about circulation in her case. You are obviously aware how
    important this can be. I don't often get hot foot. When it has hit me
    it has been on long rides in very hot weather. I can confirm that it
    is excruciating but loosening the straps of my shoes does help. People
    in sandals then laugh at me so I'm a little surprised you found they
    don't help. Possibly not the magic bullet I had thought them to be
    though.

    I had a bit of numb toes when I started triking, but that hasn't been
    problem for a while now. I too was suprised that the sandals didn't work as
    hoped...I was obviouly looking for whatever solution I could find. Now I'm
    at the point of considering different pedals. Something that spreads the
    load, so to speak. Stiff sole shoes and bigger contact point should help
    some.

    The pain is unbelievable. For me, it would go away almost immediately after
    getting the shoe off my foot...then a massage period was necessary before I
    could start riding again...without that, the pain would come back
    immediately.

    It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
    feel badly about that.

  10. Roger Zoul said:

    It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
    feel badly about that.

    Why? You had nothing to do with it.

    On yesterday's short ride, a little over 20km, the cleats in the lower
    position behaved much better. I didn't have any pain at all in the
    first half, kept the shoes on for about an hour over lunch, and only
    started suffering again as I was returning to the hotel. Today, last
    day, another longish ride back to Avignon which I will try to shorten
    as I can. In addition to cleat pain there have been other technical
    issues, as well as scorchingly hot weather, so actually I'll be quite
    happy to get back to my little corner in Isle de France.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post a full trip and trike review
    when I get home.

    EFR
    Isle sur Sorgue

  11. "Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in

    Quoted message said:
    Roger Zoul said:

    It's too bad that Artemisia had to discover this on her 1st trike tour. I
    feel badly about that.

    Why? You had nothing to do with it.

    Because your 1st trike tour should be great! Mine was. I did one in March
    where I did 7 different bikes trails, one each day, over a week. It was
    great. However, the temps were higher and later in the day the hot foot
    problems showed up. Fortunately, I was able to get out there early to avoid
    the heat most of the days.

    Quoted message said:


    On yesterday's short ride, a little over 20km, the cleats in the lower
    position behaved much better. I didn't have any pain at all in the
    first half, kept the shoes on for about an hour over lunch, and only
    started suffering again as I was returning to the hotel.

    Some time with the shoes off during lunch would have been wise...at least
    while you were sitting.

    Today, last

    Quoted message said:

    day, another longish ride back to Avignon which I will try to shorten
    as I can. In addition to cleat pain there have been other technical
    issues, as well as scorchingly hot weather, so actually I'll be quite
    happy to get back to my little corner in Isle de France.

    Thanks everyone for your help. I'll post a full trip and trike review
    when I get home.

    EFR
    Isle sur Sorgue

  12. Edward Dolan said:

    "Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mark T said:

    Artemisia writtificated

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Sounds like the shoes are too small. I would divert to the nearest bike
    shop that stocks shoes and buy another pair.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Many people have to go a size up to get a shoe that fits, so it is
    essential you try them on before buying.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When wearing the shoes they should not be tight and the toes should not
    touch the front of the shoe. I always get shoes where I can wiggle my
    toes a little.[...]

    Quoted message said:

    Too tight shoes are even more of a problem on a recumbent with the bottom
    bracket at or above seat level. I have a pair of Shimano ATB shoes which
    are a little narrow. These shoes are fine on the ATB and the low bottom
    bracket recumbent, but cause pain and a burning feeling when used on a
    higher bottom bracket recumbent.

    What a laugh the above statement is.

    What an outright pillock.

    Do you sleep standing up?

  13. Artemisia said:
    Jim said:

    "Artemisia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
    unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
    Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size.

    Quoted message said:

    Are you sure you have the cleats in the best position?
    I find that I have to shove them pretty far forward otherwise I feel like
    they're under my arches.

    Quoted message said:

    Jim J

    They feel too far forward, practically just under my toes. When I
    pedal unclipped (much more comfortable but dangerous) I go much
    farther back on the foot. But how can I move them? They are screwed in
    and the holes are only in one place.

    I never had this problem on my upright bikes and unclipped. I think it
    has to do with being able to move the foot about and reposition it
    when it starts hurting.

    Irony is, Specialized BG makes a big thing about how ergonomical and
    comfortable they are!

    Therefore it has to be the shoes.

    I wear wide fitting work shoes and there is only one make I know of.
    Imagine the pain I had to go through once they passed laws on health
    and safety demanding steel toe-capped boots or shoes.

    It took years of expensive trial and error to find them.
    They are Tuskers by the way.

    I don't know anything about recumbents or cycling shoes.

  14. On Tue, 6 May 2008 09:37:52 -0700 (PDT) in rec.bicycles.misc,

    Artemisia said:

    Two days into my trail and I discover the limit is coming from an
    unexpected place - unbelievably painful feet. I'm using Specialized BG
    Comp mountain biking shoes in the appropriate size. When I put them on
    in the morning, they are already not comfortable shoes, stiff and
    grating over the toes, but as the day wears on they turn into Chinese
    torture.

    YOU HAVE THE WRONG SHOES. Properly fitting shoes should never
    make your feet hurt! I had a lot of foot pain similar to yours
    until I found shoes that were wide enough --- mine are from Pearl
    Izumi, but I understand they are no longer made. i have very
    wide EEE feet (in american sizes), and it took me a long time to
    find shoes that were wide enough.

    my regular walking shoes are wide clark's natureveldts, and i
    often wear teva sandals in the summer. some friends have found
    that they have fewer foot problems with SPD sandals than shoes.

    your shoes should be relatively loose fitting. the heel should
    be snug but not tight, the toes should not touch the front of the
    shoe, they should be wide enough across the instep that they
    don't feel tight, and the cleats should be under the balls of
    your feet.

    Quoted message said:

    The balls of the feet burn like fire and the toes go completely numb.

    Both of these symptoms sound like problems resulting from poor
    circulation and neuropathy, both common problems with diabetics.
    You should be monitoring your sugar levels closely and eating
    small amounts often rather than eating big meals that elevate
    your sugar levels, since high sugar levels aggravate neuropathy.
    on a bent that puts your feet higher than your heart, your
    circulation problems will be increased. talk to your doctor
    about whether you should be wearing compression hosiery, since
    that may be helpful in some situations but detrimental in others,
    and it also needs to be properly fitted.

    Quoted message said:

    Also, clipping and unclipping is a chore. I thought it would get
    easier. But it can take me several minutes to clip and unclipping can
    be even longer. The fact of having to press down into the core of the
    pain to twist the feet off the pedals is part of it.


    your pedals are improperly adjusted. tension is probably too
    tight, since a properly adjusted pedal should only require an
    ankle twist, NOT a push down.

    i had a lot of knee pain and pedal tension problems until i
    switched to speedplay frogs, which have cleats that fit SPD shoe
    mounts but are very comfortable and have a very wide float, which
    accomodates my wandering knees.

    they are also easy to unclip from unless the cleats get clogged
    with foreign matter. the only time i had a problem with that was
    being unable to unclip while riding on mossy cobblestones in
    aubusson --- i had unknowingly stepped on a doggie "souvenir"
    which mucked up the cleat.

    Quoted message said:

    Is this normal? Is it something "you just get used to"? I don't want
    to take risks with my feet as I am borderline diabetic and this looks
    like the fast route to amputation.

    this is not normal. as others have said, you should consider
    cancelling the trip for now if you can't find other well fitting
    shoes, since poor circulation and foot ulcers are something that
    you do not want to have happen. i agree with others that it's
    not worth risking foot problems or injuries.

    you have learned a lesson --- don't try out new gear on a long
    trip, test it out on local rides and weekend trips first, a
    lesson we all seem to learn the hard way when we first begin
    touring.

    i hope that you can find shoes that really fit. since you live
    in/near a large metro area, it should be easier for you than for
    those of us that live in small rural towns. bonne chance!

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