More carnage.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:24:44 +0100 someone who may be "PoB"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The accident opposite the Kings Theatre I saw myself (school bus, the door
was locked with the kids inside), and it has been waiting in the wings for a
long time - the geometry of the corner is such that buses can't get round
without either swinging wide on Bruntsfield Place - busy road, not going to
happen, or by entering Gilmour Place wide and over the ASL, which is what
they normally do, literally bullying the cyclists waiting there out of the
way with engine revs and jerks - this one got it wrong. And yes, I have
repeatedly informed the local council about it - the police just said "not
our job mate, we just police things, ask the council" - my old councillor
promised to look into it, but lost his post (was deselected) in the last
election (which shows how long it's been an issue) and I've not heard from
the new incumbent.

I hope that you will be providing all that background to the police.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:24:44 +0100 someone who may be "PoB"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The accident opposite the Kings Theatre I saw myself (school bus, the door
was locked with the kids inside), and it has been waiting in the wings for a
long time - the geometry of the corner is such that buses can't get round
without either swinging wide on Bruntsfield Place - busy road, not going to
happen, or by entering Gilmour Place wide and over the ASL, which is what
they normally do, literally bullying the cyclists waiting there out of the
way with engine revs and jerks - this one got it wrong. And yes, I have
repeatedly informed the local council about it - the police just said "not
our job mate, we just police things, ask the council" - my old councillor
promised to look into it, but lost his post (was deselected) in the last
election (which shows how long it's been an issue) and I've not heard from
the new incumbent.

I hope that you will be providing all that background to the police.

And to the newspaper.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:07:39 +0100

David Hansen said:

I hope that you will be providing all that background to the police.

Indeed. But the police rarely have power to change things.

The local press (anyone who reported the incident) might
be more productive, if they might be persuaded to campaign
to fix the underlying problem, and perhaps "name and shame"
people who have been told but ignored it (especially if
you've been so well-organised as to keep copies of your
correspondence on the subject).

--
not me guv

PoB said:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Cyclist-dragged-under-wheels-of.4031109.jp

A friend saw the accident happen this morning - he's only part time so I'll
ask him about it tomorrow.

This is on my commute route, but occurred after I had been past. My wife
works a couple of streets along and went out to get the milk for the
office to see the ambulances, fire engine and tent as shown on the BBC
report [1]. There was a lot of blood on the road. She rang me to make
sure I was not involved.

A colleague at work lives near the haulage company base and has had
several close encounters with them on his bike. Apparently they always
appear to be in a hurry.

On my way home I doffed my cap as I passed.

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7372906.stm

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

You guys got something against spam? (Vriess, in _Alien 4_)

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:29:10 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

A colleague at work lives near the haulage company base and has had
several close encounters with them on his bike. Apparently they always
appear to be in a hurry.

Well worth mentioning to the police. There might be a criminal
conspiracy between those who run the business and their drivers,
though the police are unlikely to act on this.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

David Hansen said:

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:29:10 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

A colleague at work lives near the haulage company base and has had
several close encounters with them on his bike. Apparently they always
appear to be in a hurry.

Well worth mentioning to the police. There might be a criminal
conspiracy between those who run the business and their drivers,
though the police are unlikely to act on this.

Hanlon's (or possibly Heinlein's) razor is appropriate here.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:29:10 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

This is on my commute route, but occurred after I had been past. My wife
works a couple of streets along and went out to get the milk for the
office to see the ambulances, fire engine and tent as shown on the BBC
report [1].

I have occasionally thought that those lorries are too large and
heavy for use in Edinburgh. My sympathies to the victim, his family
and friends.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Don Whybrow said:

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7372906.stm

The BBC article says a 'dumper truck' was involved. (The Scotsman article
wouldn't open for me).

Do they mean a big wagon with a tipping bit on the back about the length
of a lorry/bus?
My interpretation of 'dumper truck' is one of those things
which tips from the front and typically has a small turning circle as the
chassis is articulated in the middle.

peter

"naked_draughtsman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do they mean a big wagon with a tipping bit on the back about the length
of a lorry/bus?

There are 2 stories here, a fatality today in an incident involving a truck
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Cyclist-dragged-under-wheels-of.4031109.jp
and a story last week where a cyclist was dragged under a bus but luckily
escaped with only a broken ankle,
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/City-cyclist-trapped-under-wheels.4012318.jp

--
!Speedy Gonzales!

Remove the SPAMTRAP to reply

PoB said:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Cyclist-dragged-under-wheels-of.4031109.jp

A friend saw the accident happen this morning - he's only part time so I'll
ask him about it tomorrow.

Forth news has had an appeal by the police for witnesses to come
forward. I trust your friend has already been in contact.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"To communicate with Mars, converse with spirits, To report the
behaviour of the sea monster, Describe the horoscope,
haruspicate or scry, Observe disease in signatures." (T.S.Eliot)

naked_draughtsman said:

Don Whybrow said:

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7372906.stm

The BBC article says a 'dumper truck' was involved. (The Scotsman article
wouldn't open for me).

Do they mean a big wagon with a tipping bit on the back about the length
of a lorry/bus?
My interpretation of 'dumper truck' is one of those things
which tips from the front and typically has a small turning circle as the
chassis is articulated in the middle.

This firm operate a fleet of big blue aggregate trucks ...

http://www.neilwilliamshaulage.co.uk/haulage/haulage.htm

I would hazard a guess at it being one of the 6 or 8 wheeler versions
rather than the articulated one.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Sense is not cognition but sensation. (Douglas Robinson)

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:58:52 -0500 someone who may be
naked_draughtsman <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The BBC article says a 'dumper truck' was involved. (The Scotsman article
wouldn't open for me).

Do they mean a big wagon with a tipping bit on the back about the length
of a lorry/bus?

The sort of thing often seen being driven round the streets of
Edinburgh is the sort shown on the second photo at
<http://www.neilwilliamshaulage.co.uk/haulage/haulage.htm> and I
guess the motorist involved was driving one of them.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:29:10 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

[1] http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7372906.stm

I note the posting someone has made in another place:

====================================================================

At least the words used now - "A cyclist has died after a collision
involving a dumper truck..." are neutral as to blame. I sent comment
to the Beeb this morning about Version 1 of the story which said "A
cyclist has been killed after colliding with a dumper truck....".

====================================================================

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

PoB said:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/edinburgh/Cyclist-dragged-under-wheels-of.4031109.jp

A friend saw the accident happen this morning - he's only part time so I'll
ask him about it tomorrow.

Another take on things in the Daily Record.

<http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news-feed/2008/04/30/screams-as-cyclist-crushed-by-truck-86908-20399564/>

Apparently both cyclist and lorry turning left, though no mention of who
got to the lights first.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

"My God! The thought of that evil man, loose in London--with
money, from God only knows what source--fomenting riot and
rebellion during a public emergency--and in control of an Engine-
driven press! It's nightmarish!" (Gibson-Sterling, "The
Difference Engine"😉

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

<http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/news-feed/2008/04/30/screams-as-cyclist-crushed-by-truck-86908-20399564/>

Apparently both cyclist and lorry turning left, though no mention of who
got to the lights first.

I am waiting for further details to emerge before coming to a
conclusion on who, if anyone, is to blame in this particular
instance.

However, if the bit in the paper, "I heard him say to someone he
hadn't felt or seen a thing.", is correct then it confirms my
previous view that these things are too large to be driven around
Edinburgh in the large numbers I see them rumbling through the
streets.

I think that the operators of these lorries generally have a
cavalier attitude to safety.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:13:50 +0100 someone who may be Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Another take on things in the Daily Record.

And I see that the Evening News have now published a name
<http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/Police-name-cyclist-killed-in.4033552.jp>.

Some of the comments reveal how deranged the anti-cycling lobby are,
using someone's death to spout their usual drivel. However, the
first comment is worth repeating:

"Maybe time to start looking at prohibiting these vehicles from the
narrow streets of Edinburgh. That's four fatalities I can think of
in recent memory caused by tipper trucks. The two children in
Muirhouse, the Albanian lad in Gorgie and now this. In all cases the
driver appears to have been unable to see what was happening around
him. Not surprising as these things are designed for working in
quarries and landfill sites, not in close proximity to children,
pedestrians and cyclists."

I too thought of the children killed in Muirhouse when I heard of
this death. In that case the company had failed to employ a
banksman, though they were eventually let off by the courts for this
failure.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
====================================================================

Quoted message said:

At least the words used now - "A cyclist has died after a collision
involving a dumper truck..." are neutral as to blame. I sent comment
to the Beeb this morning about Version 1 of the story which said "A
cyclist has been killed after colliding with a dumper truck....".

Who did you write to? They've used the construction implying blame to the
cyclist in the update where they name him this morning....

" He was turning left into Nicolson Street from West Richmond Street when he
collided with the truck."

pOB

Ah - found it.

Bit early to focus on hyperlinks.

pOB

Pob said:

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
====================================================================

Quoted message said:

At least the words used now - "A cyclist has died after a collision
involving a dumper truck..." are neutral as to blame. I sent comment
to the Beeb this morning about Version 1 of the story which said "A
cyclist has been killed after colliding with a dumper truck....".

Who did you write to? They've used the construction implying blame to the
cyclist in the update where they name him this morning....

" He was turning left into Nicolson Street from West Richmond Street when he
collided with the truck."

That doesn't sound like the classic lorry/bike collision where the lorry
is turning left and the bike (on the left) is going straight across.

Yesterday, I saw a rigid lorry (a brand new cement-mixer, as it happens)
with a prominent warning to undertaking cyclists on the rear nearside
mudflap, presumably right where a cyclist would see it. The first I've
seen (or noticed) Good idea, I thought.