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The Ultimate Touring Machine?

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
28 March 2008
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21 April 2008
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Denali
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  1. Hello,
    There have been so many new developments that I figure it's time to
    upgrade my stock Coker and get the Ultimate Touring Machine. My
    criteria for the unicycle are (in no particular order):
    1) Should be easy to travel with (planes, trains, buses, etc).
    2) Flexible enough to do large distances on road yet strong enough to
    do a bit of off-road (distance and bit of technical riding too).
    3) Lightweight, lower maintenance and strong (so things don't go bust
    in the middle of nowhere).

    I'm looking at a 29" option and a 36" option. Let's assume that money
    is not an issue 🙂

    The 29" Option:
    Frame: 29" Triton. Like Ken Looi's. (Would those be the lightest
    (taking strength into consideration) available? Any issues with them I
    should be concerned with?)
    Would a Ti seatpost and handle be any good?
    The KH Schlumpf Hub
    Cranks: Double-hole Moment cranks in 150mm/125mm length (Would it be
    possible to get a 110m hole custom drilled or would the holes end up
    being to close? You do get ISIS cranks that are smaller then 100mm,
    right?)
    Rim:700cx38mm, 36 hole, double wall KH rim
    KH Fusion Freeride Saddle
    Not too fussed about the pedals, tyre and spokes at this point.
    Any flaws with this set-up?
    The good thing about this unicycle is that it'll be easy to travel
    with. It'll be very versatile coz I can do long distance on the higher
    gear, and more technical muni and city riding (Asian cities!) on the
    lower gear. There are lots of options for 29" wheels. And if I have
    issues with it travelling in a remote region (like a busted inner
    tube), parts or make-do parts should be easier to find.

    The 36" Option:
    Frame: 36" Triton. (Would those be the lightest available? Any issues
    with them I should be concerned with? The new KH 36"would be a good
    option too.)
    Would a Ti seatpost and handle be any good?
    Cranks: Double-hole Moment cranks in 150mm/125mm length (Would it be
    possible to get a 110m hole custom drilled or would the holes end up
    being to close? You do get ISIS cranks that are smaller then 100mm,
    right?)
    Rim:The Nimbus Al rim. The KH 36" rim will be similar, right?
    KH Fusion Freeride Saddle
    Tyre: The Nightrider looks good at this point.
    Not too fussed about the pedals and spokes at this point.
    Hub: I've been riding a non-geared UDC hub for a while. I can climb, do
    flats, a bit of muni etc on it. Do I really need a geared hub? With the
    lower gear of the geared hub, I can do a lot. So, with the higher
    gear??? Some people like it. Some people say its only good for certain
    types of terrain. What types? Is there any problem with the hub in
    terms of maintenance and durability at this point? Also with the geared
    hub, I may need a brake while descending hills. I'm not too keen on a
    brake as it's more things that can go wrong in the middle of nowhere.
    So, descending in the lower gear should be ok (for now).
    Any flaws with this set-up?
    Not as easy to travel with, compared to a 29". Not the best for too
    much city riding. I really like the feel of the Coker though- feels
    stable and powerful. Not as many options as a 29" but this seems to be
    changing.

    I think the holy grail of adventure unicycling is to do an unsupported
    long distance muni tour. Hence, I want my uni to be light, so I can
    attach my gear to it (that'll weigh it down) but of course, be strong
    enough to carry all the stuff.

    Thoughts? And if you have answers to my many questions, please go
    ahead...I'm all ears. Looking to slowly acquire the parts over the next
    12 months.

    Thanks,
    Sid

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  2. I personally like the idea of a geard 29er, fast, yet still very
    versatile. I plan to get a geared up for my 29er. I got the 29er
    instead of a 36, planning to get the geared hub for it.

    The only thing I would change about your setup is the cranks. I didn't
    like the KH cranks for speed at all. Something straighter nad lighter
    is better IMO. If your actually gonna be doing some muni, its easy
    enough to change the cranks to something with more Q.

    --
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  3. agentQ said:

    I personally like the idea of a geard 29er, fast, yet still very
    versatile. I plan to get a geared up for my 29er. I got the 29er
    instead of a 36, planning to get the geared hub for it.

    The only thing I would change about your setup is the cranks. I didn't
    like the KH cranks for speed at all. Something straighter nad lighter
    is better IMO. If your actually gonna be doing some muni, its easy
    enough to change the cranks to something with more Q.

    Yup, makes sense to carry different pairs of cranks for a general trip.
    Gives you more options.

    The reason I was interested in the double drilled cranks was so on an
    unsupported trip, I can keep weight down by not carrying extra cranks.
    I could also try getting customised double-drilled cranks instead of
    the KH ones.

    Talking about cranks, on a geared 36", one would use longer cranks. Is
    this ideal for a long distance trip? With longer cranks, your legs make
    larger circles that could potentially tire you out faster and make you
    bounce around a bit more (saddle soreness!). But then again if you're
    able to go faster, you reach your destination faster and that gives you
    more time to have a rest before the next day. On an ungeared 36" with
    short cranks, you make go a tad slower but the ride'll be a bit
    smoother with the shorter cranks. Would I be right? Normal 2 wheeled
    bikes use longer cranks (compared to unis) and they can be ridden all
    day- so maybe long cranks aren't all that bad...Thoughts? Preferences?

    --
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  4. i think the shorter the cranks the faster you go but its harder to climb
    hills. i think.

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  5. I've gone back to using 29" for travelling/touring because it's lighter
    and more portable than a 36". For speed, I'd still go for a 36", but I
    find that a 29" with short'ish cranks (say 100mm) like I was using on
    Uninam was fast enough to keep up with the group with (all riding 36"😉.

    Shorter cranks are definitely more comfortable for riding. Your
    comparison with bikes does not take into account the fact that you tend
    to run bigger gears on bikes (you push down harder on the pedals...it
    does relieve some sitting pressure), and also the spread out handlebars
    are better for spreading your around with. And they don't tend to have
    fat saddles wedged against your crotch.

    The Schlumpf hub does add a degree of versatility, but also adds weight
    and complexity. So far they have proved to be pretty reliable, but
    still not as reliable as a solid hunk of steel you have with a fixed
    unicycle.

    --
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  6. kdawg said:

    i think the shorter the cranks the faster you go but its harder to climb
    hills. i think.

    Well yes and no. Your revolutions are the same no matter the crank
    length; but the shorter the cranks, the smaller circles you make and
    less up/down leg motion and wheel wobble, so that in itself would aid
    in going faster.

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  7. If you get a titanium frame, you won't want a Ti seatpost. The two
    (frame and seatpost) are subject to oxidizing and fusing together,
    according to some Ti-owning bike riders I know. I haven't owned any Ti
    stuff, so can't say from personal experience.

    --
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  8. pkittle said:

    If you get a titanium frame, you won't want a Ti seatpost. The two
    (frame and seatpost) are subject to oxidizing and fusing together,
    according to some Ti-owning bike riders I know. I haven't owned any Ti
    stuff, so can't say from personal experience.

    If you tighten it up and leave it there without taking it out for a
    couple of years maybe :p

    --
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  9. haha halarious.

    --
    lpounds

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  10. Sid, there's no way you'd ever be able to carry enough food to do an
    unsupported long distance muni tour--unless you opted to slay animals
    on the way. 😉

    I like the concept of a geared 29er to omit cumbersomeness yet retain
    speed and relative stability.

    I'm putting on my 125mm cranks next week--I moved my legs too much on
    Uninam.

    Oh, and, Ken. The x-rays I took today show no break in the toe! Guess
    I got lucky this time. They asked what that painkiller was you gave me
    but I couldn't remember the name...

    Still pealing from the sunburn... 😄

    --
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    <<Ryan Langton>>
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  11. onlyonewheel said:

    Sid, there's no way you'd ever be able to carry enough food to do an
    unsupported long distance muni tour--unless you opted to slay animals
    on the way. 😉

    I like the concept of a geared 29er to omit cumbersomeness yet retain
    speed and relative stability.

    I'm putting on my 125mm cranks next week--I moved my legs too much on
    Uninam.

    Oh, and, Ken. The x-rays I took today show no break in the toe! Guess
    I got lucky this time. They asked what that painkiller was you gave me
    but I couldn't remember the name...

    Still pealing from the sunburn... 😄

    Oh good, I was pretty sure it would be broken. Anyway...we had
    relatively few injuries so I'm happy with that :p

    I gave you some Ibuprofen and Paracetamol. I think you guys call it
    something funny...acetaminophen or something like that. I just
    realised I had some tramadol too but it didn't sound like you needed to
    be drugged up anymore.

    --
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  12. onlyonewheel said:

    Sid, there's no way you'd ever be able to carry enough food to do an
    unsupported long distance muni tour--unless you opted to slay animals
    on the way. 😉

    I think every sport has its limitations to using the term
    "unsupported". In unicycling, my definition would be not having a
    support vehicle or a bike to carry gear. I'm hoping to get food, water
    and maybe some shelter on the road. But all personal belongings should
    be carried on the unicycle to be unsupported, I reckon.

    Good luck with the healing 🙂

    Yup, I'm not sold on the geared 36" yet. I do understand that longer
    cranks can tire you out. The first time I used 125mm cranks after a
    long gap was in Uninam (was using 110mm before that) and I felt really
    sore during the first rest day. Though 125mm cranks are the perfect all
    round cranks and that'll probably be what I'd prefer lugging gear long
    distances).

    I haven't ridden a 29" (geared or ungeared) enough to estimate how fast
    I can go. So, I'll have to buy/ borrow one and ride it for a bit. Once
    I get a reasonable estimate on speed, it'll be interesting to see how
    climbing is on a 29" with 100mm cranks (there is a similar thread doing
    the rounds about some people preferring shortER cranks for climbing.

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  13. I've done exactly this kind of riding, with a geared 29er. Multi day
    unsupported trips, bivvying out, carrying water / food etc. Like you
    say, I've always been able to get food at least once a day, and I fill
    up water on the way at streams or whatever usually.

    Personally I would just buy the stock KH geared 29er. The triton frames
    are nice looking if you have the money, but you are basically buying
    pimpyness, they don't weigh much less than the kh frame (and the frame
    is such a small part of the weight of the unicycle anyway).

    The 29er is easy to take on planes, buses, trains etc. if you need to,
    as long as you have something to put the wheel in (at a pinch you can
    get it in a plastic survival bag, or put the wheel only in a binbag),
    it isn't a bike, it's just another piece of luggage. I've also had no
    problems with hotels, just carrying the 29er into my room. Cokers are
    hassle at any point when you're not riding them.

    In terms of stability, I don't think there's masses in it between a
    coker and a geared up 29er, once you've learnt to ride the 29er.

    In terms of speed, the geared up 29er is fast enough for touring. It's
    easy enough to go 12mph / 20km/h and you don't really need faster than
    that for general touring. Being able to pootle around in cities in low
    gear is fantastically handy though, and it is great being able to ride
    muni on the same unicycle, whereas you get somewhere on your coker,
    thinking the muni looks fantastic, but you have no way of trying it.

    I think choice of what gear to carry makes way more of a difference
    than choice of unicycle though, I've done long rides on coker and 29er,
    and for sure what makes the biggest difference is carrying less random
    junk when you travel and being obsessive about what is a vital thing to
    take. Whatever unicycle you take, if you've got a 20kg load of gear
    with you, you'll have a [censored] ride, whereas if you get it down to 4kg,
    it'll be fun.

    Joe

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  14. joemarshall said:


    Personally I would just buy the stock KH geared 29er. The triton frames
    are nice looking if you have the money, but you are basically buying
    pimpyness, they don't weigh much less than the kh frame (and the frame
    is such a small part of the weight of the unicycle anyway).

    Joe

    But the whole-* point*- of a Triton frame is pimpyliness. C'mon...why
    else would you want one?

    I can think of the only other advantage over the KH frame being that
    it's more robust...doesn't corrode and no paint to scratch off.

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  15. I've got to say that I agree with your 29" geared Triton Schlumpf type
    option.

    Why have I got to say that? Well, that's what I've gone for 😄

    Almost exactly, but not quite. I've got the non-KH hub though, which
    is perfectly addequate for riding, touring, fire roads and light muni.
    (For more technical muni, I prefer a small wheel anyway). The only
    thing I'd prefer the KH hub for though is that it takes splined cranks
    which are much easier and less scary to change than square taper ones.

    I've gone for the 29" Triton Sponge frame too, which is an absolute
    beauty. As Joe says, it doesn't weigh much less than the KH (610g vs
    675g), but having the older hub with the torque arm I needed something
    custom.

    You haven't made any mention of brakes, but a pair* of Maguras will be
    very handy if you're touring around hilly areas, or if you muni
    adventures are steep.

    I've got the MG1 magnesium pedals too as they're nice and light and
    very grippy, but pedal choice comes down to personal preference.

    As for the saddle? Well, I've got an older Fusion saddle on another
    uni, which is ok, but I use the Nimbus Gel saddle mainly and that is
    quite comfy day in day out. Can't comment on the newer Fusions
    though.

    STM

    * Is one 'set' of maguras a pair as there are two halves, or is a
    'pair' enough for a bike? 😕

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  16. Personally I'd go with the KH 29 with new geared hub and a
    KH Fusion Freeride seat.

    From a maintenance stand point tires and tubes should be easier to
    obtain than a 36" wheel and tube.

    The 29" plays around in the city and off roading with greater
    nimbleness than the 36. In geared mode the 29 is bound to go fast
    enough for long distance touring.

    Personally, I'd classify the gear 29 the ultimate rather than gear 36.

    Why,
    Transporting a unicycle via car, plane, train, motorcycle easier on
    29".
    Off roading easier on 29 (My humble opinion)
    Commuting and off roading can be done on 29"
    Rider confidence on a smaller diameter wheel for freemounting, idling,
    etc.

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  17. GizmoDuck said:

    But the whole-* point*- of a Triton frame is pimpyliness. C'mon...why
    else would you want one?

    I can think of the only other advantage over the KH frame being that
    it's more robust...doesn't corrode and no paint to scratch off.

    They can build em to work with the old schlumpf hub too. I'm kind of
    considering one for this reason, although part of me is thinking that
    if I have £300 to spend on a frame, maybe it's worth saving up and
    spending £1000 on a kh/schlumpf instead! Hmm. Maybe that'll have to
    wait until the days of studentdom are over though.

    Joe

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  18. joemarshall said:

    They can build em to work with the old schlumpf hub too.

    Yup - http://tinyurl.com/3826yb

    In fact, they can build them to pretty much whatever spec you want.

    STM

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  19. The reason I put the new KH/Schlumpf hub in a 29er is for unicycle
    touring this summer. Traveling with it will be a lot easier than a
    36er. It was kind of a hassle getting the 36er on busses, cabs,
    planes, etc.

    My touring set up is going to be the kh/schlumpf hub, kh frame, dual
    drilled 125/150mm cranks (which will allow me to check out some XC
    trails), snafu pedals, gb4 handles, miyata plastic base, gb4 stiffener,
    custom foam (i may put on a CF miyata base though). All I need to do
    now is find a way to use the brake lever in conjunction with the GB4
    bars...there isn't really a good way to make it fit other than a bar
    end, but they dont make bar ends that fit 27.2mm posts! UGH! It is
    quite frustrating, I wish I didn't like the GB4 handles so much.

    As far as carrying everything...I am working this out now. I will be
    getting a lightweight medium sized camelbak backpack to fit the
    following:
    -tarp shelter/guy lines/2 light stakes (will be around a pound)
    -synthetic sleeping bag (i have had bad experiences with down)- 2
    pounds 2 ounces if I use a 32F bag, and 2 pounds 14 ounces if I use a
    15F bag. If I use the 32F bag I will be bringing a thermolite sleeping
    bag liner as well(adds 10 degrees F to the bag), and this might work
    better for me. Anyone know how cold Norway/Iceland get on summer
    "nights"?
    -light weight foam pad.
    -water in a camelback pouch
    -2 layers of polypro or wool
    -2 bike shorts/etc
    -rain gear
    -and some other "essentials" that I don't feel like listing right now.

    I find climbing in low gear on the schlumpf harder than climbing on a
    36er. Harder meaning...slower and it doesn't feel as efficient.
    Ungeared 36ers also feel like they are less mentally and physically
    draining than a geared 29er...this may just be because I am still new
    to the 29" guni though. An ungeared 36er is probably one of the best
    unicycles you can go touring with, but if you want to go traveling with
    a unicycle and do touring, XC, city riding, muni, and not have to worry
    about it not fitting in a bus/cab...the 29 guni wins.

    --
    siafirede

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  20. semach.the.monkey said:


    The only thing I'd prefer the KH hub for though is that it takes
    splined cranks which are much easier and less scary to change than
    square taper ones.

    What makes ISIS less scary to change than square taper?

    --
    siafirede

    'DCuni' (http://www.dcuni.com/blog) - my blog about Unicycling in
    Washington DC, Virginia, Maryland

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