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Re: Help with crank!

Started by john_childs · · Last activity · 22 posts · 782 views

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rec.sport.unicycling
Published
28 May 2005
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10 January 2008
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john_childs
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  1. uni_ok said:

    *I have steel cranks, and the hub i have was an unicycle.com hub, it
    says,........ CrMo on it. *

    The UDC hub has internal threads.
    Check that the threads are all still good and that nothing has stripped.
    Then check the tapers on the hub. Are they still smooth? Have they
    been dented, rounded, or deformed? Then check the tapers on the cranks.
    Have the tapers on the crank been dented, rounded, or deformed?

    If all looks good then put it all back together using Loctite on the
    threads and a little bit of grease on the tapers. Then use a torque
    wrench to tighten the bolts. If you don't have a torque wrench then
    have a bike shop tighten the bolts or find someone who does have a
    torque wrench. If you have a Harbor Freight tool store nearby you can
    get a torque wrench for cheap ($10 on sale now). You need one that can
    measure up to 40 foot-pounds.

    If the crank still comes loose then you'll need to replace the cranks.
    Hopefully the hub itself is all OK.

    --
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  2. one of my cranks worked loose on my super cheap uni that i'm learning
    on. I thightened it. I went to check the tightness of the other crank
    and the thread stripped instantly. they are square section tappered
    cranks and shaft.

    on inspection it is the male thread of the shaft that has stripped (it
    was only holding by a couple of threads) and the nut is unaffected. I
    think the shaft is made out of fairly cheesy steel.

    i'v thought of a few possible solutions to hold the crank on. I'v
    worked with cars all my life and have access to most tools, various nut
    and bolts and some machines and welding if i call in favours and do a
    bit of travelling so im fairly well equiped to repair or replace
    things.

    the solutions:
    iA) replace the shaft. are uni shafts special or will one off of a bike
    do the job? are replacement shafts available somewhere on the interweb
    if they are special to unis? how do the shaft and hub interface?

    iB) call in a favour and get a friend with a lathe to modify a standard
    bike shaft

    ii) grind and file the shaft so that the crank sits closer to the wheel
    allowing the nut to grip onto fresh threads that have not been
    stripped.

    iii) glue the crank to the shaft

    iv) call in a favour and weld the crank to the shaft

    v) cut the wrecked threaded part off, drill and tap the shaft and add a
    bolt to hold the crank instead of a nut (make it an iny instead of an
    outy!)

    vi)cut the crank radially, cross drill the shaft, add a nut and bolt
    and make it into a clamp fit

    any thoughts, experiences or more ideas? personally im leaning towards
    ii) or v) as being fairly sturdy solutions.

    --
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  3. If the taper on the hub is knackered and you need a new hub then welding
    the crank on will give you a bit more life out of it. I've done this
    quite a few times on older unis.

    --
    nickjb

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  4. the tapper is fine. the crank was held on tight and has never been
    loose.

    --
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  5. elastoplastscavenger said:


    the solutions:
    iA) replace the shaft. are uni shafts special or will one off of a bike
    do the job? are replacement shafts available somewhere on the interweb
    if they are special to unis? how do the shaft and hub interface?

    iB) call in a favour and get a friend with a lathe to modify a standard
    bike shaft

    ii) grind and file the shaft so that the crank sits closer to the wheel
    allowing the nut to grip onto fresh threads that have not been
    stripped.

    iii) glue the crank to the shaft

    iv) call in a favour and weld the crank to the shaft

    v) cut the wrecked threaded part off, drill and tap the shaft and add a
    bolt to hold the crank instead of a nut (make it an iny instead of an
    outy!)

    vi)cut the crank radially, cross drill the shaft, add a nut and bolt
    and make it into a clamp fit

    any thoughts, experiences or more ideas? personally im leaning towards
    ii) or v) as being fairly sturdy solutions.

    iA, the shaft and hub are sold as one for all unis, as they're usually
    welded or sometimes pressed trogether. you could just get a new hub,
    you'll have to check your bearing spacing but something like 'this'
    (http://tinyurl.com/wdh0) will do the trick. You'll need to build the
    wheel tho, and may well need new spokes if you can't get a hub with the
    same flange diametre as your current one.

    iB, the actual axle is pretty much the same, indeed many unis hubs use
    stock bike axles, you need to weld the spoke flanges on. Again you'd
    prob need new spokes, and learn how to build a wheel/pay for it to be
    built.

    ii, good idea if youve got enough clearance on the inside, those tapers
    have to be quite accurate though, if the angle is much different from
    that inside the crank the cranks will sit on a single point and always
    work loose. You could do it on a mill if you've got one handy.

    iii, I'm not sure how the glue will hold up, but worth a try if you
    don't want to go overboard with it, ive heard of people glueing pedals
    in using metalweld stuff, so if you use a proper high grade adhesive
    with good surface prep (abrasion, alchol washing etc.) it mgiht well
    do.

    iv. probably better than the glue, but one that will limit the life of
    your uni. if you ever wnat to change a bearing, crank length or badly
    strip a pedal hole you're done for. (same applies to glueing I guess,
    unless you use something that has a solvent specced for it)

    v. more recent hubs are made like this, it seems by far the best idea
    to me as long as you've got some way of holding the hub perfectly
    vertical in a press drill without dismantling the wheel.

    vi. is there enough material to accomodate a bolt hole through the
    crank? most taper cranks are pretty skinny in this area. I don't know
    how the clamping forces would work out, couldn't say either way

    In short, either buy a new hub and learn how to build wheels, or go
    from outy to inny. Hope that helps.

    --
    kington99

    Dave

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  6. kington99 said:


    v. more recent hubs are made like this, it seems by far the best idea
    to me as long as you've got some way of holding the hub perfectly
    vertical in a press drill without dismantling the wheel.

    yeh i was thinking this was the most practical untill i looked up 'my
    drill press' (http://tinyurl.com/2m4snj) and found that it can only fit
    wheels of 14" diameter in the table. im gonna see if the shaft is a
    press fit so i can remove it for drilling, otherwise i guess it's out
    with the pistol drill and spirit level!

    --
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  7. I found if you aply lock tight it acts as a lubricant before it sets,
    then with a mallet drift the crank on by smacking it realy hard then
    keep tightning the crank bolt and smacking it again untill you can not
    get it tighter leave it. when the locktight is set your crank should be
    as solid and shouldnt loosen.

    --
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  8. If you strip threads in an expensive part, say an engine block, or uni
    axle, is the helicoil.
    http://www.hillcliff-tools.com/helicoil.html
    You can buy at kit at any auto parts store that will have the correct
    size bit and tap to install a special tread insert.
    Somewhat cheaper, if there is enough metal, would be to just drill
    out the axle threads, and tap new threads for a larger bolt.
    Be sure to clamp the axle well, and use a drill press, or hire
    someone to do this. A hand drill is unlikely to make a straight enough
    hole.😎

    --
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  9. All this talk to answer a question as simple as, Square Taper sucks. I
    had a UDC hub and it did the same thing. I had one crank that was never
    tight. I finally bit the bullet and moved to a flanged hub. They are
    not that expensive and the aggrevation this crank is causing is worth
    every penny.

    --
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  10. feel the light said:

    If you strip threads in an expensive part, say an engine block, or uni
    axle, is the helicoil.
    http://www.hillcliff-tools.com/helicoil.html
    You can buy at kit at any auto parts store that will have the correct
    size bit and tap to install a special tread insert.
    Somewhat cheaper, if there is enough metal, would be to just drill
    out the axle threads, and tap new threads for a larger bolt.
    Be sure to clamp the axle well, and use a drill press, or hire
    someone to do this. A hand drill is unlikely to make a straight enough
    hole.😎

    His hub has a male rather than female thread, there is no hole to
    retap, hence his disucssion of grinding away the end of the axle to
    drill a hole for such a thread.

    --
    kington99

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  11. I have a udc 36 " square hub, and it is female threads for the crank
    bolts.
    It is difficult to tell if the smaller udc hubs use a bolt or not, from
    this picture.
    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=738
    A new hub, shipping, labor to lace it up, is 50 ish $. That or the
    drill and heli coil trick will be the only lasting option if the
    threads are really gone.
    Welding may be a good idea. Fast and cheap. If not overdone, the
    weld can perhaps be ground down and the crank changed again later.

    --
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  12. feel the light said:

    I have a udc 36 " square hub, and it is female threads for the crank
    bolts.
    It is difficult to tell if the smaller udc hubs use a bolt or not, from
    this picture.
    http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=738
    A new hub, shipping, labor to lace it up, is 50 ish $. That or the
    drill and heli coil trick will be the only lasting option if the
    threads are really gone.
    Welding may be a good idea. Fast and cheap. If not overdone, the
    weld can perhaps be ground down and the crank changed again later.

    Indeed all the modern UDC hubs are female threaded, but he specifically
    stated that his was a 'super cheap uni' (so not UDC) and male threaded.

    --
    kington99

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  13. He makes mention further down in the thread,of having a UDC hub, marked
    cro molly. So what is it Uni_ok ? I kinds hope for you that Kingston
    is right, and you have stripped a bolt on the end of the axle. That
    design would be especially thoughtful for a novice uni commonly sold to
    someone who tightens things by banging on the rachet with a hammer,
    (hint-torque wrench is needed ).
    Should this be the case, examine this "bolt" carefully. Perhaps you
    are so fortunate to have stripped a "stud ". Were this the case, the
    stub may be unscrewed with large vice grips and replaced for 2
    $.😎

    --
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  14. feel the light said:

    He makes mention further down in the thread,of having a UDC hub, marked
    cro molly.

    Did i? erm...no:p that was someone linking to show a possible
    replacement.

    feel the light said:

    I hope for you that Kingston is right, and you have stripped a bolt on
    the end of the axle.

    yip the male threaded bit has the last two threads stripped off.

    feel the light said:

    That design would be especially thoughtful for a novice uni commonly
    sold to someone who tightens things by banging on the rachet with a
    hammer, (hint-torque wrench is needed ).

    it was made of cheese and only 2 threads were gripping. for a standard
    thread to have full strength it requires 3 FULL threads (not the
    tappered run in or out) engaged. I much prefer to do things by "feel"
    than with a torque wrench, especialy with tappers and gaskets. With
    this one i didnt get anywhere near "feel" because it stripped as soon
    as i touched it: my hand was as close to the driving part of the
    ratchet as possible and i was not turning hard. I was so surprised when
    it stripped i initially thought it was a left hand thread and i had
    slackened it since many things on cranks and pedals are left handed
    threads. (i think i mean left hand thread, the backwards ones where
    lefty loosey, righty tighty is reversed).

    feel the light said:

    Perhaps you are so fortunate to have stripped a "stud ".

    affraid not.

    i'll fix it tomorrow night and let y'all know!

    --
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  15. Beener said:

    All this talk to answer a question as simple as, Square Taper sucks.

    I've never owned a splined (not flanged - hubs without flanges are very
    difficult to build into wheels) hubbed unicycle. I don't do trials, and
    I roll over/off stuff rather than leaping off it on a muni, but either
    way that isn't the problem here. A properly installed square taper
    crank that is checked for tightness occasionally, mainly for the first
    few rides after installation, will be fine for a long time. The choice
    of crank lengths is better, and it's a standard that isn't going to
    disappear any time soon - compare availability of cranks for square
    taper hubs with that for the 1st gen splined KH hubs.

    Having said that, the internal/female threaded axles as on the UDC hubs
    (and all current bike square taper BBs) are a vast improvement over the
    external/male threaded hubs that used to be common.

    --
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  16. I've had the same problem with the left side crank on my unicycle.com
    hub. I just went out and bought the gluestick threadlocker loctite and
    I'm waiting for it to set. I really hope this fixes my problem because
    I'm tired of having to ride around with an allen wrench in order to
    keep the darn thing tight.

    --
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  17. I have the exact same problem as described by uni_ok who started this
    thread.

    I have a new Qu-Ax 24" Cross with an ISIS hub, which I have ridden
    litteraly 5 times. Admittedly 2 of those times have been down some
    great MUni single tracks. The left crank keeps coming loose. At first
    it I had to tighten it after every ride, however today it just got
    exponentially worse. I would ride for a couple of minutes and the crank
    would be loose. Tighten as much as I could, ride a couple minutes, do a
    small drop and the crank would be loose.

    I noticed that the right crank tightens in the same direction as which
    you pedal, and the left against the way you pedal possibly explaining
    why it would loosen. However why would it loosen so much so quickly ?

    From some of the threads I've read Loctite is recommended. My question
    is, can you get the crank bolt off after you have applied Loctite
    (never used the stuff, so have no idea) in order to swap cranks of
    rotate the wheel at a later stage ? Will Loctite really help with
    keeping the crank bolt tight enough ?

    I'm just worried that something may be wrong with either the cranks or
    the hub, and the Uni is basically brand new.

    --
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  18. JohnnyReggae said:

    My question is, can you get the crank bolt off after you have applied
    Loctite (never used the stuff, so have no idea) in order to swap cranks
    of rotate the wheel at a later stage ? Will Loctite really help with
    keeping the crank bolt tight enough ?

    I'm just worried that something may be wrong with either the cranks or
    the hub, and the Uni is basically brand new.

    absolutely. it won't undo on it's own, but it's easy to undo when you
    need it undone

    i think the real question though...is why is the bolt coming undone so
    quickly? (faulty threads, defect part diameter?)

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  19. Someone said weld the crank on.

    I did this before.

    What I did was hammer the crank onto the hub (with a metal hammer, not
    a rubber one) to ensure it was tight, then I welded it on the INSIDE of
    the crank/hub interface. This way when the weld cools, it pulls the
    crank on even more.

    You do risk damaging the bearings like this, but it's worth it if you
    don't care about the Unicycle and just want to be able to ride it.

    It will also change the properties of the metal, so be careful.

    Also weld the bolt to the crank for fun afterwards, and to practice
    welding if you suck like me.

    I've also welded pedals on too, not fun when they catch fire.

    [image:
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  20. Welding the cranks and pedals is quite a drastic move. Not something I
    would consider no matter what condition my unicycle was in. I would
    rather make a plan to fix and sort things out.

    I'm going to try the Loctite option, will try get some today, and
    hopefully that will work. Failing that will then need to take the whole
    hub/crank assembly apart to see what it going on. Hope nothing is
    faulty or stripped.

    --
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