Cross!

webhead said:

Hi all,

I just finished assembling my cross bike and I took it out for a spin.
I equipped it with michelin mud tires and took it through some fields
consisting of semi frozen and thawed soil (resulting in deep mud). I
had no idea this was so much fun 🙂
I managed to keep my balance rather well and I could keep a firm pace
as well. Thing is, whenever I had to run through an unridable piece
the dismounting and mounting sure wasn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Is there a general tip or sound advice for this or do I just try it
(and hit the ground a lot) until I get the hang of it ?

Dismounting an mounting are clumsy movements that eventually become
automatic enough that they look smooth. That doesn't mean that it
doesn't ALWAYS feel clumsy no matter how much you practice it.

Consider yourself getting good at it when you don't worry too much
about catching your balls on the saddle.

webhead said:

Hi all,

I just finished assembling my cross bike and I took it out for a spin.
I equipped it with michelin mud tires and took it through some fields
consisting of semi frozen and thawed soil (resulting in deep mud). I
had no idea this was so much fun 🙂
I managed to keep my balance rather well and I could keep a firm pace
as well. Thing is, whenever I had to run through an unridable piece
the dismounting and mounting sure wasn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Is there a general tip or sound advice for this or do I just try it
(and hit the ground a lot) until I get the hang of it ?

Actual racing content in rbr? This is odd.

As Tom said, practice. With dismounting, there is one technique that
is not obvious but is used for maximum-speed dismounts: unclip your
right foot, bring it to the left side of the bike (as per a normal
dismount), and then you do two things at about the same time: as you
start the twist to unclip your left foot, pass your right leg
_between_ the bike and the left leg. If you do it right, your left
foot unclips as your right foot hits the ground in a full running
stride. You are now running at roughly full speed with your bike in
the air.

When you first try to do this, it will seem like there is no room
between your left leg and the bike. There is lots of room.

Oh, and if you do this wrong, your left foot fails to unclip and you
fall down more or less instantly. Then your bike hits you in the back.

For me, this was very easy with SPD pedals, but has been very hard to
do now that I use Crank Brothers pedals. It may just be a mental
thing, but I feel like the Egg Beaters don't like to unclip as cleanly
(or perhaps they just don't positively eject my foot in the same way
as the SPDs), and thus I haven't gotten the knack of it. Nonetheless,
I use Egg Beaters because SPDs are terrible at dealing with mud and
sand in the cleat interface.

As for remounting, the safe technique involves a sort of hop that puts
your foot on the left pedal and then you're right on and over the
saddle. The faster, crazier technique is to basically jump directly
onto your saddle before putting your feet on the pedals. The trick
there is to never miss.

Watching video of serious CXers mount and dismount is very
illuminating. There's lots of video out there:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11115.0.html

Here's some I shot:

Andrew Penner demonstrates the through-leg technique:
http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/dismounts.mov

This video is long and slow to load and 30MB, but at 2:55, I show a
pair of riders doing each type of dismount, and freeze-frame the
through-leg technique so you can see the details. Notably, it shows
two national top-20 CXers, of whom only one is using the through-leg.
Which should suggest to you the relative importance of good dismount
and remount technique.

Quoted message said:

Dismounting an mounting are clumsy movements that eventually become
automatic enough that they look smooth. That doesn't mean that it
doesn't ALWAYS feel clumsy no matter how much you practice it.

Consider yourself getting good at it when you don't worry too much
about catching your balls on the saddle.

In fact, the actual dismount and remount get to feel pretty smooth
with enough practice. if you're having trouble with the remount,
start at a walking pace and practice swinging your foot over the
saddle whenever you get on a bike.
Consider yourself getting good when you can dismount at speed into a
full run two steps before the barrier and not worry about catching
your foot on the wood.

Quoted message said:

webhead said:

Hi all,

Quoted message said:

I just finished assembling my cross bike and I took it out for a spin.
I equipped it with michelin mud tires and took it through some fields
consisting of semi frozen and thawed soil (resulting in deep mud). I
had no idea this was so much fun 🙂
I managed to keep my balance rather well and I could keep a firm pace
as well. Thing is, whenever I had to run through an unridable piece
the dismounting and mounting sure wasn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Is there a general tip or sound advice for this or do I just try it
(and hit the ground a lot) until I get the hang of it ?

Dismounting an mounting are clumsy movements that eventually become
automatic enough that they look smooth. That doesn't mean that it
doesn't ALWAYS feel clumsy no matter how much you practice it.

Why would you assume that everyone feels clumsy doing cross mounts?
There have been times when I felt like I frickin nailed it under
pressure. It's one of the great things about the sport.

Bret

Quoted message said:

webhead said:

Hi all,

Quoted message said:

I just finished assembling my cross bike and I took it out for a spin.
I equipped it with michelin mud tires and took it through some fields
consisting of semi frozen and thawed soil (resulting in deep mud). I
had no idea this was so much fun 🙂
I managed to keep my balance rather well and I could keep a firm pace
as well. Thing is, whenever I had to run through an unridable piece
the dismounting and mounting sure wasn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Is there a general tip or sound advice for this or do I just try it
(and hit the ground a lot) until I get the hang of it ?

Dismounting an mounting are clumsy movements that eventually become
automatic enough that they look smooth. That doesn't mean that it
doesn't ALWAYS feel clumsy no matter how much you practice it.

Consider yourself getting good at it when you don't worry too much
about catching your balls on the saddle.

You ride in the nude?

Joseph

Ryan Cousineau said:

webhead said:

Hi all,

Quoted message said:

I just finished assembling my cross bike and I took it out for a spin.
I equipped it with michelin mud tires and took it through some fields
consisting of semi frozen and thawed soil (resulting in deep mud). I
had no idea this was so much fun 🙂
I managed to keep my balance rather well and I could keep a firm pace
as well. Thing is, whenever I had to run through an unridable piece
the dismounting and mounting sure wasn't as easy as it looks on TV.
Is there a general tip or sound advice for this or do I just try it
(and hit the ground a lot) until I get the hang of it ?

Actual racing content in rbr? This is odd.

As Tom said, practice. With dismounting, there is one technique that
is not obvious but is used for maximum-speed dismounts: unclip your
right foot, bring it to the left side of the bike (as per a normal
dismount), and then you do two things at about the same time: as you
start the twist to unclip your left foot, pass your right leg
_between_ the bike and the left leg. If you do it right, your left
foot unclips as your right foot hits the ground in a full running
stride. You are now running at roughly full speed with your bike in
the air.

When you first try to do this, it will seem like there is no room
between your left leg and the bike. There is lots of room.

Oh, and if you do this wrong, your left foot fails to unclip and you
fall down more or less instantly. Then your bike hits you in the back.

For me, this was very easy with SPD pedals, but has been very hard to
do now that I use Crank Brothers pedals. It may just be a mental
thing, but I feel like the Egg Beaters don't like to unclip as cleanly
(or perhaps they just don't positively eject my foot in the same way
as the SPDs), and thus I haven't gotten the knack of it. Nonetheless,
I use Egg Beaters because SPDs are terrible at dealing with mud and
sand in the cleat interface.

As for remounting, the safe technique involves a sort of hop that puts
your foot on the left pedal and then you're right on and over the
saddle. The faster, crazier technique is to basically jump directly
onto your saddle before putting your feet on the pedals. The trick
there is to never miss.

Watching video of serious CXers mount and dismount is very
illuminating. There's lots of video out there:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11115.0.html

Here's some I shot:

Andrew Penner demonstrates the through-leg technique:http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/dismounts.mov

This video is long and slow to load and 30MB, but at 2:55, I show a
pair of riders doing each type of dismount, and freeze-frame the
through-leg technique so you can see the details. Notably, it shows
two national top-20 CXers, of whom only one is using the through-leg.
Which should suggest to you the relative importance of good dismount
and remount technique.

This is very helpful. For some reason these movements are not as
intuitive as they seem. I'm thinking of practicing it on my wife's
girlie (way too low saddle) grocery bicycle which probably makes it
easy until I get the basic idea rehearsed. After that I can switch to
my cross bike with the clipless pedals which are Time ATAC btw, they
seem to unclip really smooth.
Good thing that you told me not to unclick my feet first. I had the
idea to unclick/roll out my left foot while riding. Maybe this saves
me from a certain crash.
Oh and is it that weird somebody actually posts something on-
topic ? 😉

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dismounting an mounting are clumsy movements that eventually become
automatic enough that they look smooth. That doesn't mean that it
doesn't ALWAYS feel clumsy no matter how much you practice it.

That's not true in my experience.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Consider yourself getting good at it when you don't worry too much
about catching your balls on the saddle.

I now use a flying remount technique wherein I jump onto the saddle,
landing butt-first and then picking up the pedals with my feet. There's
little chance of catching your balls on the saddle: I think the failure
mode would be to land too far forward, in which case you'd ram the
saddle nose into your butt, then you'd land crotch-first on the top
tube, then (because your feet aren't on the pedals) the pedals would hit
you in the back of your ankles, and you'd fall down with the bike
between your legs.

I have, whistling past the graveyard, never failed in this dismount. My
worst mishap this year was losing control of my bicycle after running
through a sand pit. I dropped the bike on the ground hard, and moved
both shifters.

Quoted message said:

In fact, the actual dismount and remount get to feel pretty smooth
with enough practice. if you're having trouble with the remount,
start at a walking pace and practice swinging your foot over the
saddle whenever you get on a bike.
Consider yourself getting good when you can dismount at speed into a
full run two steps before the barrier and not worry about catching
your foot on the wood.

That's usually about the moment you start having epic crashes.

I have multiple videos of local "A" CXers spectacularly eating it in the
barriers. The first lap is usually the messiest.

Fun tactic: if you are especially good at dismounts, then what you want
to do is get the rider trying to overtake you to draw even with you just
before the barriers. Then go as hard as you can to the barriers, and
dismount as late as you can. You have a fairly good chance of suckering
them into trying a late dismount, and they have a fairly good chance of
getting it wrong.

It's a mean tactic, but I've gained a spot or two that way. Mind you, my
best results this year were in the range of not-quite-last in the "B"
group.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"My scenarios may give the impression I could be an excellent crook.
Not true - I am a talented lawyer." - Sandy in rec.bicycles.racing

webhead said:

This is very helpful. For some reason these movements are not as
intuitive as they seem. I'm thinking of practicing it on my wife's
girlie (way too low saddle) grocery bicycle which probably makes it
easy until I get the basic idea rehearsed. After that I can switch to
my cross bike with the clipless pedals which are Time ATAC btw, they
seem to unclip really smooth.
Good thing that you told me not to unclick my feet first. I had the
idea to unclick/roll out my left foot while riding. Maybe this saves
me from a certain crash.
Oh and is it that weird somebody actually posts something on-
topic ? 😉

In the US, many local race series run a couple of cross
clinics at the beginning of the season taught by
experienced riders. I don't know if there's anything
like that in .be. Disclaimer: I suck at 'cross.

I would not suggest practicing on your wife's bike
with a really low saddle, because you may learn bad
habits (not getting your leg high enough on the
remount) and have to unlearn them. At most, practice
on your regular bike but lower the saddle a few cm.
It's actually fairly difficult to spear yourself with
the saddle or catch your leg. (Unless you're
jumping onto the bike while wearing a dress. They
don't call it "cross" for nothing.)

What you can and should do is take the clipless
pedals off your bike and replace them with flats.
Go to some grassy area and just ride back and
forth dismounting and remounting until you start
to feel more comfortable. Then practice keeping
speed into the dismount, that is, take your foot
off the right pedal, swing your leg over, and
coast while standing on the left pedal - don't
brake (or very little) - then get off and run.

There are multiple types of dismounts:
- with the left foot, you can either clip out
first, or stay clipped in until you twist
out as you get off the bike
- with the right foot, you clip out and then
swing your foot over, then you can either step
through or simply plunk your right foot down behind
the left leg.
- combinations of these alternatives. There are even
people who step over the top tube rather than behind
the seat, but they're weird or Canadian or something.

What dismount to use depends on the circumstances.
For ex, if you are taking a straight flat approach
to a barrier and want to carry speed through it,
you can clip out early on the right, carry speed
into the dismount, step through and hit the ground
running. On the other hand, if you are rounding
a corner and hitting a runup, you can step behind
rather than through because you're not trying to
carry speed into a long running stride; instead
you want to get off the bike very quickly. (I saw
Justin Robinson demonstrate this distinction
at a clinic.)

Clicking out your left foot before the dismount
isn't a bad thing, as long as you can stand on
the pedal while you swing your leg over. You
might do this if you're worried about getting
the left foot caught. When dismounting my
fixed gear bike on the road (I can't ride
fixed gear cross), I habitually click out on the
left first before dismounting, because my left
foot/pedal is still moving during the dismount and
I don't want to screw up and get that foot
stuck in the moving pedal.

Ben

webhead said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

As Tom said, practice. With dismounting, there is one technique that
is not obvious but is used for maximum-speed dismounts: unclip your
right foot, bring it to the left side of the bike (as per a normal
dismount), and then you do two things at about the same time: as you
start the twist to unclip your left foot, pass your right leg
_between_ the bike and the left leg. If you do it right, your left
foot unclips as your right foot hits the ground in a full running
stride. You are now running at roughly full speed with your bike in
the air.

This is very helpful. For some reason these movements are not as
intuitive as they seem. I'm thinking of practicing it on my wife's
girlie (way too low saddle) grocery bicycle which probably makes it
easy until I get the basic idea rehearsed. After that I can switch to
my cross bike with the clipless pedals which are Time ATAC btw, they
seem to unclip really smooth.
Good thing that you told me not to unclick my feet first. I had the
idea to unclick/roll out my left foot while riding. Maybe this saves
me from a certain crash.
Oh and is it that weird somebody actually posts something on-
topic ? 😉

Firstly - it is a WHOLE lot easier to mount and dismount on your own
correctly sized bike.

Aside from Bret's point of view that throwing your leg between the
frame and your other leg feeling natural in a fast dismount, this is
not at all hard to do and if you practice it starting slowly you'll
find that you very soon are doing it rapidly enough to have Ryan's
effect of falling on your face if your clip doesn't release. But
Eggbeaters always release.

Find a relatively short loop that you can practice on and set up the
places where you want to mount and dismount. After you've practiced it
enough that it is beginning to feel like you understand the process,
set up some barriers that you actually have to cross or crash. You'd
be surprised at how much motivation you can get if the alternative is
eating dirt.

I'm 6'4" tall and I had a lot of trouble doing the dismount in which
you slide your right leg between your left leg and the bike. So I used
an alternate method which is: as your leg comes over the bike do a
twisting movement which unlatches the left foot and hop the left leg
out and then simply swing your right leg down into the next step. This
worked pretty good for me.

Quoted message said:

I'm 6'4" tall and I had a lot of trouble doing the dismount in which
you slide your right leg between your left leg and the bike. So I used
an alternate method which is: as your leg comes over the bike do a
twisting movement which unlatches the left foot and hop the left leg
out and then simply swing your right leg down into the next step. This
worked pretty good for me.

I'm 6'6" and maybe I could experience these problems as well. I've
just cleaned my bike and I'll do some practicing tomorrow. (It's
freezing and it's probably a bad idea to ride with a semi wet bike)
Speaking of which, any advice on protecting your bike against harsh
conditions like mud and water or do you service it just like a road
bike.
I generally clean my road bike with a wet sponge but the amount of mud
clinging to this bike kind of obliges a hose of some sort.

TK said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 6'4" tall and I had a lot of trouble doing the dismount...

webhead said:

I'm 6'6" and maybe I could experience these problems as well...

I'm 6'8" and I just bunnyhop all the barriers, and most of my competitors
too.

Mark Fennell said:

I'm 6'8" and I just bunnyhop all the barriers, and most of my competitors
too.

Aren't there easier and more efficient ways of passing than
bunny hopping your competitors?

Bob Schwartz

Quoted message said:

Mark Fennell said:

I'm 6'8" and I just bunnyhop all the barriers, and most of my competitors
too.

Bob Schwartz said:

I'm 6'10" and aren't there easier and more efficient ways of passing than
bunny hopping your competitors?

No, not if you also want to do a chainring drop-kick on their heads too.

Mark Fennell said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 6'8" and I just bunnyhop all the barriers, and most of my
competitors too.

Bob Schwartz said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 6'10" and aren't there easier and more efficient ways of passing
than bunny hopping your competitors?

Mark Fennell said:

No, not if you also want to do a chainring drop-kick on their heads too.

There must be a future for cyclocross as a contact sport.

Donald Munro said:

There must be a future for cyclocross as a contact sport.

Sadly yes...

Quoted message said:

Aside from Bret's point of view that throwing your leg between the
frame and your other leg feeling natural in a fast dismount, this is
not at all hard to do and if you practice it starting slowly you'll
find that you very soon are doing it rapidly enough to have Ryan's
effect of falling on your face if your clip doesn't release. But
Eggbeaters always release.

A cross dismount isn't difficult to master, in fact it's very
elementary compared to the things that trials riders (google Hans Rey)
or acrobatic cyclists can do. It's natural enough that I use it to
dismount into a walk in ordinary circumstances. The problems I see
people have when first learning it are that they are simply unwilling
to commit to doing it. Exaggerating the danger doesn't help that.
Eggbeaters do always release for me, but I think that they require a
little more range of motion than SPDs do, so I have seen people (my
wife) have trouble making the change. Make sure you have the cleats
installed for early release:

For a 15 degree release angle (earlier release) on both feet, place
the cleat with the two dots on the right shoe. For a 20 degree release
angle (later release) on both feet, place the cleat with the two
circles on the left shoe.

Bret

Ryan Cousineau said:

For me, this was very easy with SPD pedals, but has been very hard to
do now that I use Crank Brothers pedals. It may just be a mental
thing, but I feel like the Egg Beaters don't like to unclip as cleanly
(or perhaps they just don't positively eject my foot in the same way
as the SPDs), and thus I haven't gotten the knack of it. Nonetheless,
I use Egg Beaters because SPDs are terrible at dealing with mud and
sand in the cleat interface.

i switched to the eggbeaters for 'cross and found them easier to clip
in and out of than the spds. i liked them enough that i cut the
quattros on my road bike, achieving full pedal unification.

Quoted message said:

Andrew Penner demonstrates the through-leg technique:http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/dismounts.mov

Pinfold ?

It's hard to learn by reading about it or even watching a video, but
if someone can show you it's easy, plus they can spot what you're
doing wrong.

at a cross clinic most people will do a decent dismount within an
hour.

there's two key points :

-clip out and swing you right leg between your bike and left leg and
coast towards the barrier balancing on your left leg only. start out
just doing that.

-the dismount has three stages:
i. plant the inside (right) foot
ii. clip out and plant the left foot
iii. step over the barrier with your right foot

knowing where to plant that first foot is crucial, pinfold does it
perfectly but some of the others take a lot more steps, which gives
you more room for error.

Mark Fennell said:

TK said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 6'4" tall and I had a lot of trouble doing the dismount...

webhead said:

I'm 6'6" and maybe I could experience these problems as well...

I'm 6'8" and I just bunnyhop all the barriers, and most of my competitors
too.

I'm 12'7" and just ignore the barriers.