yukk

michael k said:

"hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside those
weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their backs whilst
walking or running.

I don't know the biological answer to your question, but I remember an
New Scientist article some years ago about 'Slime Cities' which
explained what happens in drain pipes, etc. (and presumbly hydration
bags!) in that communities of bacteria develop, each feeding on the
detritus of the previous and the top layer feeding on our detritus.

Interesting enough a similar situation can occur in hot water feeds
where the temperature can be warm enough for such 'fur' to develop to
such an extent that the 22mm pipe can block - didn't believe this
until it happened to one of my off-spring requiring the feed to be
back flushed from the mains.

Rob

"Rob G" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

michael k said:

"hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside
those
weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their backs
whilst
walking or running.

I don't know the biological answer to your question, but I remember an
New Scientist article some years ago about 'Slime Cities' which
explained what happens in drain pipes, etc. (and presumbly hydration
bags!) in that communities of bacteria develop, each feeding on the
detritus of the previous and the top layer feeding on our detritus.

Interesting enough a similar situation can occur in hot water feeds
where the temperature can be warm enough for such 'fur' to develop to
such an extent that the 22mm pipe can block - didn't believe this
until it happened to one of my off-spring requiring the feed to be
back flushed from the mains.

Rob

The New Scientist article! I remember that. It came with some
extraordinary photos of the biological growths. Brilliant article.

"michael k" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside
those weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their
backs whilst walking or running.

I suspect it's the same process by which natural Mineral water goes "off" if
you drink out of the bottle and then leave it for some days. Bacteria from
the mouth get washed back into the container and then start multiplying...

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"michael k" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside
those weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their
backs whilst walking or running.

I suspect it's the same process by which natural Mineral water goes "off"
if you drink out of the bottle and then leave it for some days. Bacteria
from the mouth get washed back into the container and then start
multiplying...

How easy is it to wash these hydration bladders with their tubes? They look
so unhygenic. With natural mineral water bottles I rinse them out
vigorously with cold water water and resue them with tap or stream water for
about a week before binning them.

In article <[email hidden]>, michael k
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

How easy is it to wash these hydration bladders with their tubes? They look
so unhygenic.

They are not too easy to clean. Sugar helps the bacteria / mould grow
rapidly so any drinks with sugar in should be avoided or rinsed out very
well after use. Bacteria / mould cannot grow without water so after
rinsing out the bladder and tube should be dried thoroughly.

By only using water in my Platypus and by drying it out thoroughly and
leaving the top off when not in use I find I very rarely have to clean
it. When I do a baby bottle cleaning solution quickly kills anything
growing and then it is just a fiddly matter getting any gunge out.

Use a sugary drink in it, fail to rinse it out and dry it and you will
have no end of problems with one. Know the problems and treat it
appropriately and you will find it lasts for ages without any issues.

Quoted message said:

With natural mineral water bottles I rinse them out
vigorously with cold water water and resue them with tap or stream water for
about a week before binning them.

I hope you mean recycle rather than bin! I have been using the same
500ml pop bottle several time a week for years. All it gets is a quick
rinse under the tap when I get home and then is left to dry. No fur,
gunge or slime and no illness!

--

Dominic Sexton

"Dominic Sexton" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I hope you mean recycle rather than bin! I have been using the same 500ml
pop bottle several time a week for years. All it gets is a quick rinse
under the tap when I get home and then is left to dry. No fur, gunge or
slime and no illness!

I am sad to say that I bin them. Most of my serious walking takes place
around the Mediteranean area and I feel its a real acheievement for me to
get as far as a bin. There must be the best part of a billion plastic water
bottles littering the countryside in Spain and Greece.

michael k said:

How easy is it to wash these hydration bladders with their tubes? They look
so unhygenic.

IMHO bladder 'hydration systems' are just fashion accessories -
marketing gimmicks. I followed the herd a couple of years ago and got
one, because I thought that as everybody seemed to be using them they
must be good. I didn't buy a cheap one - I bough a platypus.

Here are some of their defects (in no particular order):

1)They're a pain to fill from a burn.
2)They _always_ eventually leak and wet the contents of your sac.
3)They're difficult to keep clean.
4)The (pvc?) mouthpiece makes the water taste vile (and IME no amount of
rinsing with various agents made the slightest difference). The volume
of water remaining in the tube and exposed to the sun becomes tepid and
the tainting is amplified, so when you're thirsty your first pull on the
tube has you gagging and you have to spit the water out!
5)They're expensive.

Here are some of their advantages:

1) They look 'cool'.
2) Errm?

Of course, other peoples experiences may differ from mine!

Jim Ford

In message <[email hidden]>

Jim Ford said:

michael k wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How easy is it to wash these hydration bladders with their tubes? They look
so unhygenic.

Quoted message said:

IMHO bladder 'hydration systems' are just fashion accessories -
marketing gimmicks. I followed the herd a couple of years ago and got
one, because I thought that as everybody seemed to be using them they
must be good. I didn't buy a cheap one - I bough a platypus.

Quoted message said:

Here are some of their defects (in no particular order):

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Of course, other peoples experiences may differ from mine!

I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
then carry on. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left. I've certainly not had a problem with gunk and
so on in them, and I've only ever cleaned mine thoroughly the once
(then again, I never put anything in other than water). IMO they're
far less of a gimmick than, say, GPS.

--
Simon Challands

Simon Challands said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Jim Ford said:

michael k wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How easy is it to wash these hydration bladders with their tubes? They look
so unhygenic.

Quoted message said:

IMHO bladder 'hydration systems' are just fashion accessories -
marketing gimmicks. I followed the herd a couple of years ago and got
one, because I thought that as everybody seemed to be using them they
must be good. I didn't buy a cheap one - I bough a platypus.

Quoted message said:

Here are some of their defects (in no particular order):

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Of course, other peoples experiences may differ from mine!

I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
then carry on. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left. I've certainly not had a problem with gunk and
so on in them, and I've only ever cleaned mine thoroughly the once
(then again, I never put anything in other than water). IMO they're
far less of a gimmick than, say, GPS.

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do. However, a
water bottle can serve exactly the same function as those bacteria
bladders.

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Crispin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Simon Challands said:

I've certainly not had a problem with gunk and
so on in them, and I've only ever cleaned mine thoroughly the once
(then again, I never put anything in other than water). IMO they're
far less of a gimmick than, say, GPS.

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do. However, a
water bottle can serve exactly the same function as those bacteria
bladders.

Rubbish!

--

Dominic Sexton

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do.

Like run out of battery power, or lose a signal?

"Simon Challands" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left.

Sounds like a pretty big problem to me.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:01:21 -0000, "Adam Lea" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do.

Like run out of battery power, or lose a signal?

Have you ever tried to use a compass on the Cullin, to find your way
off Carrauntoohil, or to take a bearing from Rough Tor.

However, I take your point. A GPS is no replacement for a compass.
However, a water bottle is an excellent alternative to a bacteria
bladder.

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do. However, a
water bottle can serve exactly the same function as those bacteria
bladders.

Rubbish!

Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
bacteria bladder. Or that a GPS and compass can serve the same
purpose?

In article <[email hidden]>, Tom Crispin
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Quoted message said:

A map and compass cannot do what a GPS and map can do. However, a
water bottle can serve exactly the same function as those bacteria
bladders.

Rubbish!

Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
bacteria bladder.

A bacteria bottle can indeed serve as an alternative to a nice fresh
sparkly clean water bladder. However you said it can serve exactly the
same function which it cannot without the addition of a drinking tube.
Even then if it isn't a collapsible bottle it wouldn't serve exactly the
same function. I use bottles and bladders. Both have pros and both have
cons.

--

Dominic Sexton

Simon Challands said:

I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
then carry on.

Water bottle in a waistbelt holster is easier to fill than a bladder,
you can easily see how much you have left and it's very easy to pull it
out for a sip and re-holster it without breaking stride, /if/ you don't
otherwise have your hands full and you're not running.

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily). Otherwise I tend not to bother with them. As with many other
bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
rather than they're doing any good).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Tom Crispin said:

Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
bacteria bladder.

Time I really like my Plat is kayak surfing. The bladder goes in the
back pocket of my BA and the tube is handy for a sip between breakers.
I imagine one /could/ use a water bottle, but best of luck to you in
getting a drink and still having it after you've been looped a few times...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

The message <[email hidden]>
from "michael k" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

resue them with tap or stream water for
about a week before binning them.

So you then just "bin" PET bottles?

Does not your Council arrange for them to be recycled? (If it doesn't,
nag your local Councillor, or just dump a ton of PET on his door step!)

Richard

"Richard Spencer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from "michael k" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

resue them with tap or stream water for
about a week before binning them.

So you then just "bin" PET bottles?

Does not your Council arrange for them to be recycled? (If it doesn't,
nag your local Councillor, or just dump a ton of PET on his door step!)

Richard

I think more than 20 of the local Councillors are currently in jail for
corruption in the part of Spain that I have just come from.

10% of the forests and 1% of the total land mass has been burnt this summer
in Greece, which is the other place that I visit regularly. In Greece the
Councillors will arrange for recycled bottles to be dumped in the
countryside then set alight (probably). The EU then gives the councillors
umpteen million euros to put the damage right, money which goes into their
back pockets.

Environmental issues are more than just binning rubbish in the right bins.
You have to bin certain politicians first.