yukk

Quoted message said:

I find it very convenient just to be able to have a sip when I want
instead of having to stop, faff around behind me to find a bottle,
then carry on. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left. I've certainly not had a problem with gunk and
so on in them, and I've only ever cleaned mine thoroughly the once
(then again, I never put anything in other than water). IMO they're
far less of a gimmick than, say, GPS.

My Craghoppers rucksack has front "balancing packs" (!) which consist of
two sets of two pouches (zipped inside, open netting outside) and are a
great place to put

a) outside left: water bottle. Takes a litre with no problem
b) outside right: camera for quick photos. (cover when raining!)
c) inside left: light gloves
d) inside right: currently unused

I wouldn't swap my rucksack for any other.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

(same with walking poles, most of which seem to be out there because
someone said they're good rather than they're doing any good).

Oh No! An essential piece of equipment. If I found out I had left them
at home when arriving for a mountain walk I would abandon it.

You've obviously not got pain in the knees like I have. Every step down
is a sharp pain but is alleviated by levering myself down on the poles.

--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

Bernard Hill said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

(same with walking poles, most of which seem to be out there because
someone said they're good rather than they're doing any good).

Oh No! An essential piece of equipment. If I found out I had left them
at home when arriving for a mountain walk I would abandon it.

You've obviously not got pain in the knees like I have. Every step down
is a sharp pain but is alleviated by levering myself down on the poles.

Note I didn't say they're not any good (if I thought that, then
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/poles.htm would be *very*
different!), but that most of the ones out there don't actually do any
good in practice.

Look at most other pole users and they wave them ineffectually at the
ground every couple of paces and don't actually put any weight through
them (maybe just as well for their fingers, since most of them aren't
using the straps to take any weight...). Used like that they don't do
anything for the knees: that requires active work with the arms, and
where it isn't done the poles are really an affectation rather than a
good way to redirect body weight.

I don't use my poles nearly as much as I used to, and a lot of that is
building up the supporting muscles around the knee. Now I can take
downhills much better on my things, keeping my knees bent during
descents, which saves faffing about with poles. You need pretty chunky
thighs to get away with it though, and I still like poles on big, steep
and sustained routes down.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Gordon <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"michael k" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"hydration bladder fur", thats a new one, it sounds on a par with "crusty
knickers", or "smelling of fish". Anyone know what the "fur" actually
consists of? I'm referring to the stuff that apparently grows inside
those weird plastic bags with a tube that some people carry on their
backs whilst walking or running.

I suspect it's the same process by which natural Mineral water goes "off" if
you drink out of the bottle and then leave it for some days. Bacteria from
the mouth get washed back into the container and then start multiplying...

No problem. That's my own friendly bacteria. ;-)
--
Gordon H
The other Gordon
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

Dominic Sexton <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I hope you mean recycle rather than bin! I have been using the same
500ml pop bottle several time a week for years. All it gets is a quick
rinse under the tap when I get home and then is left to dry. No fur,
gunge or slime and no illness!

That's what I do, a sure way to build up the body's immune system.

They do get brittle and burst after a while though..
--
Gordon H
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

michael k <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Simon Challands" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left.

Sounds like a pretty big problem to me.

I look at the plastic bottle and make a rough estimate.
--
Gordon H
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote
many other

Quoted message said:

bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
rather than they're doing any good).

Walking sticks are the essential must have. It's great that they now do
sticks for kids and also left and right handed sticks.
Seriously though, I cringe when I see a group of 5 or 6 people out on a
walk, all of them sporting a pair of brand new stciks. I'm 49 and after 3
knee ops have had to start using sticks on descents. They do make a lot of
difference for me but I can't believe that 90% plus of the outdoor
fraternity are partially crippled by the age of 30!

Going back to the subject of these bladders, in my life I have met one
person hospitalised for hydration problems, she had overdosed on water from
a bladder.

Peter Clinch said:

Tom Crispin said:

Do you disagree that a water bottle can serve as an alternative to
bacteria bladder.

Time I really like my Plat is kayak surfing. The bladder goes in the
back pocket of my BA and the tube is handy for a sip between breakers.
I imagine one /could/ use a water bottle, but best of luck to you in
getting a drink and still having it after you've been looped a few times...

I haven't been kayaking for years and years. When I cycle camped the
Raid Pyrenean I kept a 3L Camelback in my rear pannier with an
extension tube to the front handlebars. But boy! It was an effort to
get any water. On those lonely 2000m cols I often pondered if it
would be possible to have some sort of switched mechanical pump to aid
with water flow. But with average speeds on big ascents little more
than 4mph, and with descent speeds of up to 50mph, I reckoned that
water flow would vary between a trickle and a flood.

Tom Crispin said:

However, a water bottle is an excellent alternative to a bacteria
bladder.

No it isn't if you want to pose, walking round the local footpaths,
swinging a pair of poles and wearing a polar buff!

Jim Ford

In message <[email hidden]>

Peter Clinch said:

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily). Otherwise I tend not to bother with them. As with many other
bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
rather than they're doing any good).

I'm with you on the poles, a piece of kit whose takeup I really don't
understand. Most of the time I think I'd find that they just get in
the way. I can't imagine that everyone who uses them has knee
problems.

--
Simon Challands

Dominic Sexton said:

A bacteria bottle can indeed serve as an alternative to a nice fresh
sparkly clean water bladder. However you said it can serve exactly the
same function which it cannot without the addition of a drinking tube.

If you want a bottle to serve the same function as a bladder+tube,
you'll need to half fill the bottle with TCP and top up with water to
get it to taste the same!

Jim Ford

In message <[email hidden]>

michael k said:

"Simon Challands" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left.

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a pretty big problem to me.

You can always take it out for a look, but if you're going to do that
every time then you may as well not bother. It's an annoyance rather
than a big problem in my experience.

--
Simon Challands

Peter Clinch said:

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily).

What does the 'BA' stand for Pete - 'Big [censored]'?
;^) <---- Please note!

Jim Ford

In article <[email hidden]>, Jim Ford
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

A bacteria bottle can indeed serve as an alternative to a nice fresh
sparkly clean water bladder. However you said it can serve exactly the
same function which it cannot without the addition of a drinking tube.

If you want a bottle to serve the same function as a bladder+tube,
you'll need to half fill the bottle with TCP and top up with water to
get it to taste the same!

Not in my case. My platy has never had a bad taste to it :-)

--

Dominic Sexton

Gordon H said:

michael k <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Simon Challands" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

. The only problem I have with them is not knowing how
much water I have left.

Sounds like a pretty big problem to me.

I look at the plastic bottle and make a rough estimate.

The important quantities being enough and not enough.

michael k said:

Walking sticks are the essential must have. It's great that they now do
sticks for kids and also left and right handed sticks.
Seriously though, I cringe when I see a group of 5 or 6 people out on a
walk, all of them sporting a pair of brand new stciks. I'm 49 and after 3
knee ops have had to start using sticks on descents. They do make a lot of
difference for me but I can't believe that 90% plus of the outdoor
fraternity are partially crippled by the age of 30!

In Austrian 'outdoor' towns they are used by walkers to go shopping!

On 27 Nov, 18:39, Simon Challands <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Peter Clinch said:

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily). Otherwise I tend not to bother with them. As with many other
bits of kit, they have a useful place, but I don't think they're as
wonderful as their degree of take-up suggests (same with walking poles,
most of which seem to be out there because someone said they're good
rather than they're doing any good).

I'm with you on the poles, a piece of kit whose takeup I really don't
understand. Most of the time I think I'd find that they just get in
the way. I can't imagine that everyone who uses them has knee
problems.

--
Simon Challands

The fact that they get in the way is that you aren't really using them
properly - and the reason that everyone on the hills should use them,
including you, is to protect your knees. There would be far fewer
dodgy knees in middle aged mountaineers if they had used sticks to
take some of the load of their joints when they were younger.

Most older mountaineers will complain of knee troubles and equally
most of that group will tell you that if poles had been around in
their youth, their knees wouldn't be the way they are now. That of
course is hindsight I agree, and of course, Simon, you won't get knee
trouble when you are older, will you !!

Rob

Tom Crispin said:

I haven't been kayaking for years and years. When I cycle camped the
Raid Pyrenean I kept a 3L Camelback in my rear pannier with an
extension tube to the front handlebars. But boy! It was an effort to
get any water.

Get a /proper/ touring bike (i.e., a recumbent ;-)) and you can sit the
bladder behind the seat, just behind your head. Much closer both
vertically and laterally to the destination, so much less sucking needed...

However, I usually prefer bottles on the bike. Easy enough to grab one
whenever you want a drink unless you're doing bonkers off-road.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Rob G said:

The fact that they get in the way is that you aren't really using them
properly

Sorry Rob, but that's just wrong. The time they most obviously get in
the way for me is when I want to do /anything/ with my hands, because
it's much more awkward with a pair of poles strapped to them. The most
obvious case is working with a map inna orienteering stylee, map always
in hand and thumb on approximate position, almost constantly updated,
which just happens to be my preferred way of walking.

Quoted message said:

- and the reason that everyone on the hills should use them,
including you, is to protect your knees. There would be far fewer
dodgy knees in middle aged mountaineers if they had used sticks to
take some of the load of their joints when they were younger.

I'm increasingly finding I use them less and less because I've refined
downhill technique to take it on my thighs rather than my knees. I do
wish I'd worked that out 10 years sooner though. I still like poles for
really chunky descents, but more and more I just let my thighs take the
strain, rather than either my knees or my arms.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Jim Ford said:

Peter Clinch said:

I find a bladder very handy when I have my hands full (particularly
canoeing/kayaking, the bladder sits in the back pocket of my BA very
happily).

What does the 'BA' stand for Pete - 'Big [censored]'?
;^) <---- Please note!

I suppose to some extent my Big [censored] /is/ a Buoyancy Aid, but it's not a
very useful place to put the Plat...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/