cholesterol

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
cholesterol. How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give
me
medication? Help appreciated please.

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides. It
doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides
under 60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that
strict.
The drug they generally want to put you on if your LDL is high is a
statin. Statins are somewhat controversial for a number of reasons;
some of the side effects can be pretty bad. If you do go on one, it'd
be a good thing if you took 100mg Coenzyme Q10 every day to reduce the
possibility of statin side effects.

Better than the statins are the drugs that work in the gut; Zetia and
Werchol. These are much safer, but relatively newer so there's no
generics yet and they're more expensive.

Better still is something like SloNiacin, which not only lowers LDL
very effectively, but raises HDL as well. The problem is people don't
tolerate it as well because of the flushing effect, so you need to
start with a low dose and increase the dose gradually every 4 weeks
or so, take it with an aspirin, and drink a couple glasses of water
afterwards. After you get up to a full dose (around 1000-1500
mg/day), it can take a year to see the full effects.

They kind of prescribe statins indiscriminately. I was put on one
when I was sent home from the hospital after my heart attack. Later,
I asked to be switched to Zetia because I was worried about the
statin. Later still, I got my hospital records and saw my LDL was
under 60 before I was discharged, so there was no need for either. But my
HDL was very low, so I switched to SloNiacin.

I also take fish oil and vitamin D3 for heart health. I tried to
switch to cod liver oil to reduce the number of pills I have to take,
but it turns out the stuff makes me retch, so I'm sticking to the
pills.
If you want to learn a WHOLE lot about this stuff, check out this
cardiologist's blog: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

Many thanks for this. I am in UK so unsure about those meds you talked
about. I will certainly read up on it so that when I see my Doc I can ask
the right questions

O

Ophelia wrote:
:: Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
:: was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
:: cholesterol.

did you not ask for your numbers over the phone? If not, why?

::
:: How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
:: medication?
::
:: Help appreciated please.

Just say no. In room for improvement in LC diet and exercise?

Ophelia said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I was told
to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the cholesterol.

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me medication?

Help appreciated please.

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides. It
doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides under
60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that strict.

The drug they generally want to put you on if your LDL is high is a
statin. Statins are somewhat controversial for a number of reasons;
some of the side effects can be pretty bad. If you do go on one, it'd
be a good thing if you took 100mg Coenzyme Q10 every day to reduce the
possibility of statin side effects.

Better than the statins are the drugs that work in the gut; Zetia and
Werchol. These are much safer, but relatively newer so there's no
generics yet and they're more expensive.

Better still is something like SloNiacin, which not only lowers LDL very
effectively, but raises HDL as well. The problem is people don't
tolerate it as well because of the flushing effect, so you need to start
with a low dose and increase the dose gradually every 4 weeks or so,
take it with an aspirin, and drink a couple glasses of water afterwards.
After you get up to a full dose (around 1000-1500 mg/day), it can take
a year to see the full effects.

They kind of prescribe statins indiscriminately. I was put on one when
I was sent home from the hospital after my heart attack. Later, I asked
to be switched to Zetia because I was worried about the statin. Later
still, I got my hospital records and saw my LDL was under 60 before I
was discharged, so there was no need for either. But my HDL was very
low, so I switched to SloNiacin.

I also take fish oil and vitamin D3 for heart health. I tried to switch
to cod liver oil to reduce the number of pills I have to take, but it
turns out the stuff makes me retch, so I'm sticking to the pills.

If you want to learn a WHOLE lot about this stuff, check out this
cardiologist's blog: http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

x-no-archive: yes

Jackie Patti said:

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides. It
doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides under
60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that strict.

Jackie, my experience, and quite a few studies demonstrate that low
carb, at least in the first six months, raises LDL or leaves it the
same, while also raising HDL. My own experience was a 100 pt. reduction
in LDL, doubling of HDL from a decade long low of 34 to 70, and lowering
of my TGLS by a lot within weeks of commencing lower carb.

Susan

Ophelia said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I was told
to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the cholesterol.

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me medication?

In the 1993 Atkins edition is a statement that after 6+ months, 80%
see better numbers. In the 2001 Atkins edition is a statement that
after 2+ months, a majority see better numbers.

I see you've been posting 4 months. Maybe you're not to the 6
month point yet? Early on the numbers tend to go up. Depends on
how long you've been low carbing and if you're in the 80% or in the
20%.

Roger Zoul said:

Ophelia said:

Quoted message said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
cholesterol.

did you not ask for your numbers over the phone? If not, why?

Because I know nothing about it and I didn't know I should🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
medication?

Help appreciated please.

Just say no. In room for improvement in LC diet and exercise?

Please explain?

Doug Freyburger said:

Ophelia said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
cholesterol.

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
medication?

In the 1993 Atkins edition is a statement that after 6+ months, 80%
see better numbers. In the 2001 Atkins edition is a statement that
after 2+ months, a majority see better numbers.

I see you've been posting 4 months. Maybe you're not to the 6
month point yet? Early on the numbers tend to go up. Depends on
how long you've been low carbing and if you're in the 80% or in the
20%.

Oh heck, I don't understand🙁

btw I have been up and down with the diet. <ashamed>

I know this sound stupid and I almost certainly is, but I can't stick to it
if I know the numbers on the scale. I was doing great (24lbs in two
months). I was called to see the nurse at the asthma clinic. She made me
go on the scale. I tried not to look but couldn't help myself. That is
when I saw how much I had lost. I went off the diet big
time🙁((((((((((((((

I am back on now but daren't look🙁

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

O
needing help!

Ophelia wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Ophelia wrote:
::::: Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
::::: was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
::::: cholesterol.
:::
::: did you not ask for your numbers over the phone? If not, why?
::
:: Because I know nothing about it and I didn't know I should🙂
::

Well, please find out and get a complete breakdown: LDL, VLDL, HDL, and
Trigs.

::
::::: How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
::::: medication?
:::::
::::: Help appreciated please.
:::
::: Just say no. In room for improvement in LC diet and exercise?
::
:: Please explain?

Well, if you've been sloppy with LC or not exercising, then your numbers may
not be as good as they can be. Or, as others indicated, if you haven't been
doing LC for that long, perhaps there is still come improvement to come.
However, some doctors just put you on those drugs at the slightest elevation
in your numbers. In the meantime, half the people dying of heart attacks
have normal chol numbers. The question then is whether or not CHOL is even a
meaningful indicator if risk. It's one topic of Taubes book, in fact. Why
bother with drugs which can be potentially impactful on your life when CHOL
is not even an important issue anyway?

she is not allowing you to know the results without paying for an office
visit. She is likely to want you to take medication rather than diet and
exercise because then you dont have to do office visits. Doctors do not do
preventive medicine, insurance does not pay for it.

Bob

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I was
told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the cholesterol.

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me medication?

Help appreciated please.

Ophelia wrote:
:: Doug Freyburger wrote:
::: "Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote:
::::
:::: Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
:::: was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
:::: cholesterol.
::::
:::: How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
:::: medication?
:::
::: In the 1993 Atkins edition is a statement that after 6+ months, 80%
::: see better numbers. In the 2001 Atkins edition is a statement that
::: after 2+ months, a majority see better numbers.
:::
::: I see you've been posting 4 months. Maybe you're not to the 6
::: month point yet? Early on the numbers tend to go up. Depends on
::: how long you've been low carbing and if you're in the 80% or in the
::: 20%.
::
:: Oh heck, I don't understand🙁
::
:: btw I have been up and down with the diet. <ashamed>

Don't be ashamed. It doesn't help. also, you yet don't know if there is
anything to really be worried about. If fact, the worry itself may be more
damaging than your numbers being high.

::
:: I know this sound stupid and I almost certainly is, but I can't
:: stick to it if I know the numbers on the scale. I was doing great
:: (24lbs in two months). I was called to see the nurse at the asthma
:: clinic. She made me go on the scale.

A nurse can't make you get on the scale. If doing that really causes you
problems, refuse to do so.

I tried not to look but
:: couldn't help myself. That is when I saw how much I had lost. I
:: went off the diet big time🙁((((((((((((((

That's definitely something to work on! 🙂

::
:: I am back on now but daren't look🙁
::
:: As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

So, there is a lot of room for you to improve your numbers, if you like. At
the least, you won't have to doctor making you feel as though you're going
to drop dead just because she doesn't like your number -- which for many is
meaningless anywho.

In a way, though, this is good news!

Roger Zoul said:

Ophelia said:

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>>> Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results,
>>> I was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of
>>> the cholesterol.
>
> did you not ask for your numbers over the phone? If not, why?

Because I know nothing about it and I didn't know I should🙂

Well, please find out and get a complete breakdown: LDL, VLDL, HDL,
and Trigs.

Ok. Please can you explain what they are?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>> How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
>>> medication?
>>>
>>> Help appreciated please.
>
> Just say no. In room for improvement in LC diet and exercise?

Please explain?

Well, if you've been sloppy with LC or not exercising, then your
numbers may not be as good as they can be.

I have not been exercising. In the last two years I have had both knees
replaced. With the first one I was ill for quite a long time because I had
a serious infection, and I was on IV antibiotics for 3 months

Or, as others indicated,

Quoted message said:

if you haven't been doing LC for that long, perhaps there is still
come improvement to come. However, some doctors just put you on those
drugs at the slightest elevation in your numbers.

I have heard of statins and I am afraid of them.

In the meantime,

Quoted message said:

half the people dying of heart attacks have normal chol numbers. The
question then is whether or not CHOL is even a meaningful indicator
if risk. It's one topic of Taubes book, in fact. Why bother with
drugs which can be potentially impactful on your life when CHOL is
not even an important issue anyway?

sycochkn said:

she is not allowing you to know the results without paying for an
office visit. She is likely to want you to take medication rather
than diet and exercise because then you dont have to do office
visits. Doctors do not do preventive medicine, insurance does not pay
for it.
Bob

Hi Bob, I am in UK. I do have private insurance but only for trauma

Ophelia wrote:
:: Roger Zoul wrote:
::: Ophelia wrote:
::::: Roger Zoul wrote:
:::::: Ophelia wrote:
:::::::: Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for
:::::::: results, I was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor
:::::::: because of the cholesterol.
::::::
:::::: did you not ask for your numbers over the phone? If not, why?
:::::
::::: Because I know nothing about it and I didn't know I should🙂
:::::
:::
::: Well, please find out and get a complete breakdown: LDL, VLDL, HDL,
::: and Trigs.
::
:: Ok. Please can you explain what they are?
::

I guess they have the same names in the UK....Low density Lipoprotein, very
low density lipoprotein, and high density lipoprotein, and triglycerides.

These days, the claim is that is the ratios that are important....for
example, Total/HDL...the smaller the better. (You want more of your total
to come from HDL than from LDL, supposely). Here's a page:

http://www.pro2services.com/Lectures/Fall/Lipids/a5lipids.htm

::
::
:::::::: How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
:::::::: medication?
::::::::
:::::::: Help appreciated please.
::::::
:::::: Just say no. In room for improvement in LC diet and exercise?
:::::
::::: Please explain?
:::
::: Well, if you've been sloppy with LC or not exercising, then your
::: numbers may not be as good as they can be.
::
:: I have not been exercising. In the last two years I have had both
:: knees replaced. With the first one I was ill for quite a long time
:: because I had a serious infection, and I was on IV antibiotics for 3
:: months

I see. Then diet is very, very important for you, O, unless you can find a
way to exercise.

::
::
::
:: Or, as others indicated,
::: if you haven't been doing LC for that long, perhaps there is still
::: come improvement to come. However, some doctors just put you on
::: those drugs at the slightest elevation in your numbers.
::
:: I have heard of statins and I am afraid of them.

Me too.

::
:: In the meantime,
::: half the people dying of heart attacks have normal chol numbers. The
::: question then is whether or not CHOL is even a meaningful indicator
::: if risk. It's one topic of Taubes book, in fact. Why bother with
::: drugs which can be potentially impactful on your life when CHOL is
::: not even an important issue anyway?

Keep repeating to yourself, this is not a diet, this is the way I eat and I
will eat this way for the rest of my life.

Ophelia wrote:
|
| Oh heck, I don't understand🙁
|
| btw I have been up and down with the diet. <ashamed>
|
| I know this sound stupid and I almost certainly is, but I can't stick
| to it if I know the numbers on the scale. I was doing great (24lbs
| in two months). I was called to see the nurse at the asthma clinic.
| She made me go on the scale. I tried not to look but couldn't help
| myself. That is when I saw how much I had lost. I went off the diet
| big time🙁((((((((((((((
|
| I am back on now but daren't look🙁
|
| As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁
|
| O
| needing help!

Ophelia said:

Doug Freyburger said:

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last week I had blood tests and today when I phoned for results, I
was told to make an appointment to see the Doctor because of the
cholesterol.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How will this fit in with low carb? Is she likely to give me
medication?

Quoted message said:

In the 1993 Atkins edition is a statement that after 6+ months, 80%
see better numbers. In the 2001 Atkins edition is a statement that
after 2+ months, a majority see better numbers.

Quoted message said:

... Depends on
how long you've been low carbing ...

I know this sound stupid and I almost certainly is, but I can't stick to it
if I know the numbers on the scale.

How often should you step on the scale - Whenever you are not
emotional about it. if you get emotional every time, then never step
on the scale but use a tape measure instead.

Quoted message said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You don't know how long you've been low carbing? Okay. If you
fell off the wagon it's hard to tell if you started back when you
started
or if you started more recently.

What Dr Atkins meant as far as I can tell - If you started under 6
months ago you can't expect your numbers to be good. So mark
6 months after your start date on your calendar. That's when the
cholesterol numbers will start to mak sense. Before then, the
numbers are meaningless.

Susan said:

Jackie Patti said:

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides.
It doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides
under 60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that
strict.

Quoted message said:

Jackie, my experience, and quite a few studies demonstrate that low
carb, at least in the first six months, raises LDL or leaves it the
same, while also raising HDL.

That's what I got from Taubes and Eades: On low-carb, triglycerides go
way down and the HDL/LDL ratio improves (these are the things that now
matter), but LDL and total cholesterol may rise a little, especially in
the first few months, and especially if you eat a lot of saturated fat.
That's why saturated fat got a bad reputation in the first place -- all
they were measuring back then was total cholesterol, and saturated fats
made it higher.

There's also research that shows that the density of your LDL (and VLDL)
in particular has a strong correlation with disease, and a low-carb diet
tends to make the LDL particles lighter and "fluffier," which is good.

No one should let a doctor prescribe anything for cholesterol without
reading Taubes's book first, at least the cholesterol section. What's
$20 for a book, up against the price of a doctor visit, prescription
drugs, and your life? Before you take a doctor's advice, understand the
history of where that advice is coming from. Maybe you'll agree with
the doctor, maybe you won't; but don't go in there clueless.

--
Aaron -- 285/254/200 -- aaron.baugher.biz

"Aaron Baugher" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

No one should let a doctor prescribe anything for cholesterol without
reading Taubes's book first, at least the cholesterol section. What's
$20 for a book, up against the price of a doctor visit, prescription
drugs, and your life? Before you take a doctor's advice, understand the
history of where that advice is coming from. Maybe you'll agree with
the doctor, maybe you won't; but don't go in there clueless.

Exactly.

"Jackie Patti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Roger Zoul said:

Well, if you've been sloppy with LC or not exercising, then your numbers
may not be as good as they can be. Or, as others indicated, if you
haven't been doing LC for that long, perhaps there is still come
improvement to come. However, some doctors just put you on those drugs at
the slightest elevation in your numbers. In the meantime, half the
people dying of heart attacks have normal chol numbers. The question then
is whether or not CHOL is even a meaningful indicator if risk. It's one
topic of Taubes book, in fact. Why bother with drugs which can be
potentially impactful on your life when CHOL is not even an important
issue anyway?

I agree that cholesterol itself doesn't matter much. However, the
lipoproteins that carry it around do seem to matter.

LDL has two components, the small dense particles and the large fluffy ones.
The latter are good. LCers then to have more of those, driving LDL higher
than otherwise.

Of course, this [censored] is being made up as we type, so I tend not to put much
stock in any of it, even though my HDL has been between 87 and 100+ (with
lots of exercise).

x-no-archive: yes

Patti said:

Ophelia said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

And you want triglycerides to be low also, but it doesn't have as good a
mneumonic.

I don't want LDL to be low, I just want it to be big and fluffy.

I want VLDL to be low.

Susan