cholesterol

x-no-archive: yes

Jackie Patti said:

Damn, how did you get your HDL up like that? Do you exercise a lot?
Mine dropped from 34 to 24 while I was hospitalized.

I just stopped eating starch and sugar and *two weeks later* that was my
result. In the near decade since, it's gone no lower than 56, and mostly
has stayed mid 60s.

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty sure longer term, LDL drops. Otherwise, I have no "excuse"
for mine being under 60 before I was on meds (and within a week of
having a heart attack). I recall discussing this with my internist
before I had my records and saying I'd heard under 60 was the ideal and
he said that was nearly impossible, you'd have to take so much statin to
ever get that low that you'd never be able to tolerate the side effects
- and then it turned out mine was that low anyways.

I think longer term, LDL drops if you keep losing weight, but otherwise
not necessarily. Mine crept up over the years after that result while I
was adrenally suppressed by topical and inhaled steroids and then
metformin. It's dropped once more since cutting those out, but because
my adrenal hormones cycle, my LDL does, as my body tries to compensate
for the lows.

Quoted message said:

Though I have seen a lot of folks have elevated LDL for some period of
time - it seems a common side effect initially. But it also seems to go
away after a while. I'm pretty sure Ophelia has been here a while, so I
assumed a long-term low-carb thing.

I think for most folks, it'll go down as long as they're losing. For
those with adrenal issues, all bets are off. :-/

Quoted message said:

Still, SloNiacin does lower LDL as well as raise HDL and is a heck of a
lot cheaper than Zetia or Werchol. While I think niacin is a drug, not
a vitmain, when taken at the doses that work for LDL and HDL
improvement, it obviously beats the heck out of a statin. SloNiacin is
the form Davis recommends as least likely to cause liver problems.

Slow or regular niacin made me very weak and shaky and raised my bg.
Too bad, I loved the flush from the strong stuff and it really aided sleep.

Quoted message said:

Ophelia, another point... did you get your lipids done while fasting?
Cause if not, your triglycerides could be high cause of that - it's
supposed to be a fasting test.

12-14 hours fasting, ideally, and that means no coffee, too.

Susan

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

Jackie Patti said:

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides.
It doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides
under 60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that
strict.

Jackie, my experience, and quite a few studies demonstrate that low
carb, at least in the first six months, raises LDL or leaves it the
same, while also raising HDL. My own experience was a 100 pt. reduction
in LDL, doubling of HDL from a decade long low of 34 to 70, and lowering
of my TGLS by a lot within weeks of commencing lower carb.

Damn, how did you get your HDL up like that? Do you exercise a lot?
Mine dropped from 34 to 24 while I was hospitalized.

I'm pretty sure longer term, LDL drops. Otherwise, I have no "excuse"
for mine being under 60 before I was on meds (and within a week of
having a heart attack). I recall discussing this with my internist
before I had my records and saying I'd heard under 60 was the ideal and
he said that was nearly impossible, you'd have to take so much statin to
ever get that low that you'd never be able to tolerate the side effects
- and then it turned out mine was that low anyways.

Though I have seen a lot of folks have elevated LDL for some period of
time - it seems a common side effect initially. But it also seems to go
away after a while. I'm pretty sure Ophelia has been here a while, so I
assumed a long-term low-carb thing.

Still, SloNiacin does lower LDL as well as raise HDL and is a heck of a
lot cheaper than Zetia or Werchol. While I think niacin is a drug, not
a vitmain, when taken at the doses that work for LDL and HDL
improvement, it obviously beats the heck out of a statin. SloNiacin is
the form Davis recommends as least likely to cause liver problems.

Ophelia, another point... did you get your lipids done while fasting?
Cause if not, your triglycerides could be high cause of that - it's
supposed to be a fasting test.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Ophelia said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

And you want triglycerides to be low also, but it doesn't have as good a
mneumonic.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Roger Zoul said:

Well, if you've been sloppy with LC or not exercising, then your numbers may
not be as good as they can be. Or, as others indicated, if you haven't been
doing LC for that long, perhaps there is still come improvement to come.
However, some doctors just put you on those drugs at the slightest elevation
in your numbers. In the meantime, half the people dying of heart attacks
have normal chol numbers. The question then is whether or not CHOL is even a
meaningful indicator if risk. It's one topic of Taubes book, in fact. Why
bother with drugs which can be potentially impactful on your life when CHOL
is not even an important issue anyway?

I agree that cholesterol itself doesn't matter much. However, the
lipoproteins that carry it around do seem to matter.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Ophelia said:

I have heard of statins and I am afraid of them.

Just say no.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Roger Zoul said:

These days, the claim is that is the ratios that are important....for
example, Total/HDL...the smaller the better. (You want more of your
total to come from HDL than from LDL, supposely). Here's a page:

http://www.pro2services.com/Lectures/Fall/Lipids/a5lipids.htm

Many thanks Roger

I will!

FOB said:

Keep repeating to yourself, this is not a diet, this is the way I eat
and I will eat this way for the rest of my life.

Ophelia said:

Oh heck, I don't understand🙁

btw I have been up and down with the diet. <ashamed>

I know this sound stupid and I almost certainly is, but I can't stick
to it if I know the numbers on the scale. I was doing great (24lbs
in two months). I was called to see the nurse at the asthma clinic.
She made me go on the scale. I tried not to look but couldn't help
myself. That is when I saw how much I had lost. I went off the diet
big time🙁((((((((((((((

I am back on now but daren't look🙁

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

O
needing help!

Doug Freyburger said:

Quoted message said:

How often should you step on the scale - Whenever you are not

emotional about it. if you get emotional every time, then never step
on the scale but use a tape measure instead.

I don't use a scale. As I said earlier, the nurse at the asthma clinic made
me go on and of course I couldn't 'not' look and that finished me🙁

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You don't know how long you've been low carbing? Okay. If you
fell off the wagon it's hard to tell if you started back when you
started
or if you started more recently.

What Dr Atkins meant as far as I can tell - If you started under 6
months ago you can't expect your numbers to be good. So mark
6 months after your start date on your calendar. That's when the
cholesterol numbers will start to mak sense. Before then, the
numbers are meaningless.

I understand. Thank you!

Aaron Baugher said:

Susan said:

Jackie Patti said:

Generally, low-carb reduces LDL (bad cholesterol) and triglycerides.
It doesn't do such a good job of raising HDL, exercise is better for
raising HDL than diet is. Ideal numbers are LDL and triglycerides
under 60 and HDL over 60, but usually doctors don't shoot for that
strict.

Quoted message said:

Jackie, my experience, and quite a few studies demonstrate that low
carb, at least in the first six months, raises LDL or leaves it the
same, while also raising HDL.

That's what I got from Taubes and Eades: On low-carb, triglycerides go
way down and the HDL/LDL ratio improves (these are the things that now
matter), but LDL and total cholesterol may rise a little, especially
in the first few months, and especially if you eat a lot of saturated
fat. That's why saturated fat got a bad reputation in the first place
-- all they were measuring back then was total cholesterol, and
saturated fats made it higher.

There's also research that shows that the density of your LDL (and
VLDL) in particular has a strong correlation with disease, and a
low-carb diet tends to make the LDL particles lighter and "fluffier,"
which is good.

No one should let a doctor prescribe anything for cholesterol without
reading Taubes's book first, at least the cholesterol section. What's
$20 for a book, up against the price of a doctor visit, prescription
drugs, and your life? Before you take a doctor's advice, understand
the history of where that advice is coming from. Maybe you'll agree
with the doctor, maybe you won't; but don't go in there clueless.

Indeed. Which was why I ran here first. I have seen a lot of posts about
this kind of thing but never took a lot of notice. It didn't apply to me,
did it? <sigh>

Jackie Patti said:

Quoted message said:

Though I have seen a lot of folks have elevated LDL for some period of
time - it seems a common side effect initially. But it also seems to
go away after a while. I'm pretty sure Ophelia has been here a
while, so I assumed a long-term low-carb thing.

It was! Then the last couple of years, as I explained I had surgery and
infection.

I was doing well until I had to go on the scale🙁

I have been struggling recently. I have been very stressed because we are
moving down to England. My So is now working down there and I must give up
my job, get the house sold and move down. I am getting used to the idea
now but I hate leaving my work🙂

Quoted message said:

Still, SloNiacin does lower LDL as well as raise HDL and is a heck of
a lot cheaper than Zetia or Werchol. While I think niacin is a drug,
not a vitmain, when taken at the doses that work for LDL and HDL
improvement, it obviously beats the heck out of a statin. SloNiacin
is the form Davis recommends as least likely to cause liver problems.

Quoted message said:

Ophelia, another point... did you get your lipids done while fasting?

Yes it was.

Quoted message said:

Cause if not, your triglycerides could be high cause of that - it's
supposed to be a fasting test.

Thank you!

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

Jackie Patti said:

Damn, how did you get your HDL up like that? Do you exercise a lot?
Mine dropped from 34 to 24 while I was hospitalized.

I just stopped eating starch and sugar and *two weeks later* that was
my result. In the near decade since, it's gone no lower than 56, and
mostly has stayed mid 60s.

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty sure longer term, LDL drops. Otherwise, I have no
"excuse" for mine being under 60 before I was on meds (and within a
week of having a heart attack). I recall discussing this with my
internist before I had my records and saying I'd heard under 60 was
the ideal and he said that was nearly impossible, you'd have to take
so much statin to ever get that low that you'd never be able to
tolerate the side effects - and then it turned out mine was that low
anyways.

I think longer term, LDL drops if you keep losing weight, but
otherwise not necessarily. Mine crept up over the years after that
result while I was adrenally suppressed by topical and inhaled
steroids and then metformin. It's dropped once more since cutting
those out, but because my adrenal hormones cycle, my LDL does, as my body
tries to compensate
for the lows.

Quoted message said:

Though I have seen a lot of folks have elevated LDL for some period
of time - it seems a common side effect initially. But it also
seems to go away after a while. I'm pretty sure Ophelia has been
here a while, so I assumed a long-term low-carb thing.

I think for most folks, it'll go down as long as they're losing. For
those with adrenal issues, all bets are off. :-/

Quoted message said:

Still, SloNiacin does lower LDL as well as raise HDL and is a heck
of a lot cheaper than Zetia or Werchol. While I think niacin is a
drug, not a vitmain, when taken at the doses that work for LDL and
HDL improvement, it obviously beats the heck out of a statin. SloNiacin
is the form Davis recommends as least likely to cause
liver problems.

Slow or regular niacin made me very weak and shaky and raised my bg.
Too bad, I loved the flush from the strong stuff and it really aided
sleep.

Quoted message said:

Ophelia, another point... did you get your lipids done while fasting?
Cause if not, your triglycerides could be high cause of that - it's
supposed to be a fasting test.

12-14 hours fasting, ideally, and that means no coffee, too.

Ahh. I did have black coffee

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for. What
numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must aim for please?

Quoted message said:

And you want triglycerides to be low also, but it doesn't have as
good a mneumonic.

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

I have heard of statins and I am afraid of them.

Just say no.

Very well! I will!

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia wrote:

> As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁
You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for. What
numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must
aim for please?

When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider
normal.
This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors are
happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it under 60.

Ok thanks! I will need to ask to see them, because they wouldn't normally
give them to you. She will just tell me if I need to change anything and if
so, what.

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

Jackie Patti wrote:
> Ophelia wrote:
>
>> As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁
> You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for. What
numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must
aim for please?

When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider
normal.
This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors are
happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it under 60.

Ok thanks! I will need to ask to see them, because they wouldn't normally
give them to you. She will just tell me if I need to change anything and
if so, what.

The doctor is required by law, if you request them in writing, to give you a
copy of any of your medical records and may charge you up to 25 cents per
page.

Bob

sycochkn said:

"Ophelia" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia wrote:
> Jackie Patti wrote:
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>> As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁
>> You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.
>
> Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for.
> What numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must
> aim for please?

When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider
normal.
This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors
are happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it
under 60.

Ok thanks! I will need to ask to see them, because they wouldn't
normally give them to you. She will just tell me if I need to
change anything and if so, what.

The doctor is required by law, if you request them in writing, to
give you a copy of any of your medical records and may charge you up
to 25 cents per page.

Well I am in UK but I wouldn't have any problem anyway. She will tell me
anything I ask.

Ophelia said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for. What
numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must aim for please?

When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider normal.

This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors are
happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it under 60.

--
http://www.ornery-geeks.org/consulting/

Ophelia wrote:
:: Jackie Patti wrote:
::: Ophelia wrote:
:::: Jackie Patti wrote:
::::: Ophelia wrote:
:::::
:::::: As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁
::::: You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.
::::
:::: Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for.
:::: What numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must
:::: aim for please?
:::
::: When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider
::: normal.
::: This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors
::: are happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it
::: under 60.
::
:: Ok thanks! I will need to ask to see them, because they wouldn't
:: normally give them to you. She will just tell me if I need to
:: change anything and if so, what.

Please get a printed copy of your lab report. Use it for future reference.

x-no-archive: yes

Ophelia said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for. What
numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must aim for please?

High TGL and low HDL are the most dangerous pattern. Of all the lipids,
LDL is the least predictive of CVD.

Susan

x-no-archive: yes

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia said:

Jackie Patti said:

Ophelia wrote:

> As for the numbers you mentioned...... I don't have a clue🙁

You want LDL to be Low. You want HDL to be High.

Ok thank you. And what are the numbers I ought to be looking for.
What numbers are the most dangerous? What is the number one must aim
for please?

When you get a copy of the lab resuls, it'll say what they consider normal.

This isn't something people agree on. For instance, most doctors are
happy if they get your LDL under 100, whereas Davis wants it under 60.

Those numbers are absurdly low, set to sell drugs not assure good health.

Susan