Front LEDs

Zog The Undeniable said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment and
just managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing. The trouble is, I *was*
looking for traffic coming round the roundabout, but this (bluish) LED just wasn't visible at all
from an oblique angle, and he was wearing dark clothing.

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night. I do also
wear a reflective Sam Browne belt and reflective leg bands and all my lighting is legal (except
the front lamp which is technically 0.6W too powerful!).

Some of the LED front lights are bad in that respect. I personally think the Cateye Opticube ones
are much worse than the rest of their range. They have put so much effort into getting the light
onto a patch on the road that almost all the peripheral light has gone. The old EL100 OTOH does a
grand job of letting people know you are there.

Tony

Zog The Undeniable said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment and just
managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing. The trouble is, I *was* looking
for traffic coming round the roundabout, but this (bluish) LED just wasn't visible at all from an
oblique angle, and he was wearing dark clothing.

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night. I do also
wear a reflective Sam Browne belt and reflective leg bands and all my lighting is legal (except the
front lamp which is technically 0.6W too powerful!).

Be careful out there.

Yes, I've seen so many cyclists around here that just get 'lost in the darkness' and for fear of
being jumped upon by the zealots here for not seeing them [sigh] I'd refrain from posting something
like this, but the truth remains: without adequate clothing and lighting it can be very, very easy
for motorists to not see you.....sometimes. It's so easy to just suddenly 'disappear' behind a
'black backdrop'. I remember walking down The Mall one summers evening with my girl friend and
watching this guy on a bike heading up towards Buck house being clattered by this woman turning into
The Mall coming out of a side road [she even slowed down to a virtual sop before she pulled out].
Crash! Right into the side she rammed him, and a right bang it made too The long and short of it
was: he was ok, shaken but ok, the girl driving was also shaken up, shocked and shaken at suddenly
having this guy land on the bonnet of her car! I remember the first thing that struck me about him
was his overall 'blackness' - black bike, black clothes and a pathetic front light. It's very murky
and shady down there, loads of trees, very black in the shadows, she 'should' have seen him, but she
didn't. I could kind of understand why she didn't.

Those front LEDs are fine when seen directly from the front, but not so good from the side. And the
combination of dark clothes, dark coloured bike and weak lights is lethal.

The other day I say this guy with one of those front LEDs flashing away. It was ok, quite effective,
not too dazzling/confusing to the oncoming car/bike but just visible and useful. Big difference
though - straight head-on view.

But you are so right....be careful out there.

gb

Zog The Undeniable said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment and just
managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing. The trouble is, I *was* looking
for traffic coming round the roundabout, but this (bluish) LED just wasn't visible at all from an
oblique angle, and he was wearing dark clothing.

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night. I do also
wear a reflective Sam Browne belt and reflective leg bands

I've always thought these are good. They do need illumination from headlights to work properly, but
when they do I've always thought they're very effective.

gb

and all my lighting is legal (except the front lamp

Quoted message said:

which is technically 0.6W too powerful!).

Be careful out there.

On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 18:38:26 +0000 someone who may be Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear,

Reflective gear reflects light. Thus your car would have needed sideways facing "headlights" for you
to see the reflections. I take it your car has such (illegal) lights? The same is true of the
reflector that the bike may well have had on the front.

While I have no objection to reflective clothing people need to understand how it works and not
assume it can do things it can't. Roundabouts are one reason why cycles need a good front light
after dark.

Quoted message said:

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night.

That rather depends on the lamp. However most modern ones give a broad spread of light while keeping
a concentrated beam to illuminate the road adequately where there are no street lights.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, I've seen so many cyclists around here that just get 'lost in the darkness' and for fear of
being jumped upon by the zealots here for not seeing them [sigh] I'd refrain from posting
something like this, but the truth remains: without adequate clothing and lighting it can be very,
very easy for motorists to not see you.....sometimes. It's so easy to just suddenly 'disappear'
behind a 'black backdrop'. I

snip

Quoted message said:

Those front LEDs are fine when seen directly from the front, but not so good from the side. And
the combination of dark clothes, dark coloured bike and weak lights is lethal.

The other day I say this guy with one of those front LEDs flashing away. It was ok, quite
effective, not too dazzling/confusing to the oncoming car/bike but just visible and useful. Big
difference though - straight head-on view.

But you are so right....be careful out there.

What's all this talk about lights on bikes? In Milton Keynes I'd be surprised if more than 10% of
cyclists have any working lights, front or rear, after dark.

--
M Stewart Cyclist & car driver Milton Keynes, UK www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

Tony Raven said:

Some of the LED front lights are bad in that respect. I personally think the Cateye Opticube ones
are much worse than the rest of their range. They have put so much effort into getting the light
onto a patch on the road that almost all the peripheral light has gone. The old EL100 OTOH does a
grand job of letting people know you are there.

EL200 Opticube model looks bright at up to 45 degrees to the side and is still visable at 90
degrees. Flashing mode helps.

In any case, I don't rely on drivers seeing me by my light only when I'm side-on to them. I assume
I'm invisable unless they can see
me/bike/clothing/light *before* that.

~PB

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Those front LEDs are fine when seen directly from the front, but not so good from the side. And
the combination of dark clothes, dark coloured bike and weak lights is lethal.

The other day I say this guy with one of those front LEDs flashing away. It was ok, quite
effective, not too dazzling/confusing to the oncoming car/bike but just visible and useful. Big
difference though - straight head-on view.

But you are so right....be careful out there.

I had my first ride with my new Smart 6/8/10w switchable light and the difference compared to my
2.5w is amazing. Previously I've kept away from decent lights up front because of the cost but the
smart only cost me 25 quid on Ebay and it's excellent, nimh bottle battery and good quality cables
and fittings.

Tony Raven said:

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week).
Busy roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment
and just managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing. The trouble is, I
*was* looking for traffic coming round the roundabout, but this (bluish) LED just wasn't visible
at all from an oblique angle, and he was wearing dark clothing.

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night. I do also
wear a reflective Sam Browne belt and reflective leg bands and all my lighting is legal (except
the front lamp which is technically 0.6W too powerful!).

Quoted message said:

Some of the LED front lights are bad in that respect. I personally think the Cateye Opticube ones
are much worse than the rest of their range. They have put so much effort into getting the light
onto a patch on the road that almost all the peripheral light has gone. The old EL100 OTOH does a
grand job of letting people know you are there.

It's a shame manufacturers don't distinguish these two quite different light uses more clearly. You
need one light to see where you're going, and another, designed according to totally different
principles, to make you visible to other road users.

In the case of cars and motorcycles the lack of the distinction causes a ridiculous amount of light
pollution, with motorcyclists for example, in their attempt to become more visible, blasting out
retina singeing amounts of power from lights designed for another purpose and which actually
*conceal* the distance of the motorcycle.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205 IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's
Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK ["]http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In any case, I don't rely on drivers seeing me by my light only when I'm side-on to them. I assume
I'm invisable unless they can see
me/bike/clothing/light *before* that.

What do people think about those light thingys that attached to the wheel valve? I saw someone who
had them the other day - at speed there appeared to be a solid illuminated rim of orange-red light
around the wheel, at slower speeds you could see a rotating point of light. I was riding parallel to
him so didn't get a direct side-on view from any distance but should imagine it would be pretty
noticeable. I was even thinking of getting some myself.

The other day I noticed a stealth pedestrian start running into the road where the street lights
were out - dressed in black with black all around - just a kind of vague shadow in the corner of my
eye, except for the fact that he was wearing trainers with some kind of illumination in the heel.
Quite funny seeing little flashes of light moving almost as if by themselves in stepping fashion
just above the road - but also actually quite useful, from a safety point of view.

Rich

you wonder how much the cyclist can see though, they dont illuminate the way ahead much.

Davey

Malcolm Stewart said:

"Garry Broad" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yes, I've seen so many cyclists around here that just get 'lost in the darkness' and for fear of
being jumped upon by the zealots here for not seeing them [sigh] I'd refrain from posting
something like this, but the truth remains: without adequate clothing and lighting it can be very,
very easy for motorists to not see you.....sometimes. It's so easy to just suddenly 'disappear'
behind a 'black backdrop'. I

snip

Quoted message said:

Those front LEDs are fine when seen directly from the front, but not so good from the side. And
the combination of dark clothes, dark coloured bike and weak lights is lethal.

The other day I say this guy with one of those front LEDs flashing away. It was ok, quite
effective, not too dazzling/confusing to the oncoming car/bike but just visible and useful. Big
difference though - straight head-on view.

But you are so right....be careful out there.

What's all this talk about lights on bikes? In Milton Keynes I'd be surprised if more than 10% of
cyclists have any working lights, front or rear, after dark.

[email hidden] (Chris Malcolm) writed in news:bq9u86$rm1$1 @scotsman.ed.ac.uk:

Quoted message said:

In the case of cars and motorcycles the lack of the distinction causes a ridiculous amount of
light pollution, with motorcyclists for example, in their attempt to become more visible, blasting
out retina singeing amounts of power from lights designed for another purpose and which actually
*conceal* the distance of the motorcycle.

I don't have an issue with motorcycle lights - the problem I have (and others on this NG it
seems) is the car drivers who leave their front fog lights on permanently - they are
difficult to judge distance and speed of, and dazzle disproportionaltly (sp).

Mike Leicester

On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 11:38:19 +0000 someone who may be Davey <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

you wonder how much the cyclist can see though, they dont illuminate the way ahead much.

If you had used Usenet norms then it would be possible to work out what your comments relate to.

Are you wondering how much cyclists using LED front lights can see, filament front lights or no
lights at all (the latter is unlikely).

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

In message <[email hidden]>, Davey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

on streetlit roads you don't really need a bike light to see by anyway.
--
Chris French, Leeds

In "]news:[email hidden], Zog The Undeniable <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment and
just managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing.

Doesn't help straight line stopping distance, though.

Quoted message said:

I hope my front dynamo lamp is better, otherwise I'm seriously scared to ride at night. I do also
wear a reflective Sam Browne belt and reflective leg bands and all my lighting is legal (except
the front lamp which is technically 0.6W too powerful!).

I was thinking about getting the Cateye EL300 - has anyone any views on this LED (its the one
with 5 LEDs)

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week). Busy
roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment and
just managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing. The trouble is, I *was*
looking for traffic coming round the roundabout, but this (bluish) LED just wasn't visible at all
from an oblique angle, and he was wearing dark clothing.

Lights are surely on your bike so people can see you. Lots of scatter at big angles - more chance
that you will be seen.

John

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Eeek - I nearly hit someone coming home tonight (I was driving for the first time this week).
Busy roundabout, cyclist with front LED and no reflective gear, only saw him at the last moment
and just managed to pull up before the stop line - ABS is a wonderful thing.

Doesn't help straight line stopping distance, though.

Depends on the individual circumstances. In some cases it may reduce it, in others it may increase
it. It's nearly *always* beneficial tho, as if the brakes have locked up then it attempts to retain
control in the hands of the driver and allow him to concentrate more on other things. It also
depends on the application to a large degree as well. There's quite a variance in ability on the
systems out there - some manufacturer's employ better systems that others (in my experience
Vauxhall's is usually pretty dire).

Unfortunately there are always drivers who claim that they are 'superior' in that they are unlikely
to 'panic brake' and can probably out cadence brake the automated systems. I find these people to be
idiots usually tho :/

--
Phil

"Ray Vaughan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was thinking about getting the Cateye EL300 - has anyone any views on this LED (its the one
with 5 LEDs)

I've been using one for about three weeks now. I think it's great for my commute on lit urban roads.
It's bright enough to make me seen (I hope) but I don't think the beam would be any good to actually
light my way on unlit roads. I can't be sure of course, never having tried. The angle the beam is
thrown out to the sides seems pretty good to me, judging from the way it illuminates road signs etc.
further up the street - it's much better in this respect than the rechargeable I've used for the
past two winters. I left mine switched on all day once so had need of a little of the alleged 180
hours back-up on the way home - compared with the full strength light it was pathetic. I now treat
it as a 25-30 hour light and carry spare batteries. It's a bit bulkier than other lights I've used
so if your bars are cluttered already you might have to squeeze everything up a bit. Er.. thats
about all I can think of right now, hope it helps,

tony R.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Lights are surely on your bike so people can see you. Lots of scatter at big angles - more chance
that you will be seen.

That depends where you live, if I were to cycle 50m away from my house I'll be on unlit roads and
needing my lights to see by.

Juliette
--
nowt