Classic Touring Frames

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

I'd go with a bridgestone, sheldons site has a bunch of old catalogs that
describe all the models. They show up for sale (craigslist,etc) enough so
you could find whatever model appeals, too.

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

Waterford can make you one but remember that lugs today are for looks
only.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

Quoted message said:

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Jesse

Waterford can make you one but remember that lugs today are for looks
only.

So are "nice" welds v. rough but fully functional welds. And nice
paint v. powder coat. Etc.

Ozark Bicycle said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

On Jun 5, 10:59 pm, Pilgrim <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesse

Quoted message said:

Waterford can make you one but remember that lugs today are for looks
only.

So are "nice" welds v. rough but fully functional welds. And nice
paint v. powder coat. Etc.

'Nice' welds imply a good welder, as does nice paint jobs. Nothing
wrong with Powdercoat, BTW-durable, easily clearcoated, looks like wet
paint in lots of cases.
Waterford frames are made to order, size wise and also with all the
extras somebody may want for a loaded tourer.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

On Jun 6, 6:42 am, Ozark Bicycle

Quoted message said:

On Jun 6, 7:37 am, Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Jun 5, 10:59 pm, Pilgrim <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
> looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
> it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
> making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
> frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
> frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
> angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
> fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
> pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
> these features?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
> be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
> frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Jesse

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Waterford can make you one but remember that lugs today are for looks
only.

Quoted message said:

So are "nice" welds v. rough but fully functional welds. And nice
paint v. powder coat. Etc.

'Nice' welds imply a good welder, as does nice paint jobs. Nothing
wrong with Powdercoat, BTW-durable, easily clearcoated, looks like wet
paint in lots of cases.
Waterford frames are made to order, size wise and also with all the
extras somebody may want for a loaded tourer.-

None of my last comment was aimed at Waterford; they do great work
IMO.

I was merely pointing out that whilst lugs may be largely cosmetic,
given modern steels and techniques, so are some aspects of welding,
painting etc.

(IME, powdercoating, however durable, always looks thick around the
details of the frame. This is less of an issue with welded or fillet
brazed frames than it is with lugged frames, IMO. YMMV.)

Against the wind: Books: Marty Basch

http://www.memorylane-classics.com/images/Bikes/Schwinn%20Black%20Phantom.JPG

Marty meets a retiree on a Schwinn trekking across Canada

"Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

The bike I commute to work with is an older 1983 Specialized Expedition that
I turned into a retro cruiser. It has a long wheelbase and is very stable.
Enough for 3 water bottle cages, cantilever brakes, and will accept wide
tires, however I'm using the Avocets 25s. Can put on racks both front and
rear, but I like my Carradice Nelson. I actually picked up the whole bike
for $100.oo. at a garage sale and added my own personal touches.
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/tom2work.JPG

-tom

Quoted message said:

remember that lugs today are for looks only.

I said I was looking for an old frame, and yes looks are all that I
hope to get out of them... well that and hopefully they'll keep the
bike together ;-)

Troll Report said:

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

Quoted message said:

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Jesse

I'd go with a bridgestone, sheldons site has a bunch of old catalogs that
describe all the models. They show up for sale (craigslist,etc) enough so
you could find whatever model appeals, too.

I have looked into bridgestones. Does anyone know if the MBs have the
needed braze ons? I'd imagine their wheel clearance is fine, but what
about the bottome bracket height and angles? The XOs are probably
better for that, but they seem to be kinda collectible. Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Waterford frames are made to order, size wise and also with all the
extras somebody may want for a loaded tourer.

Should I clarify that I'm looking for a sub $400 frame too?

On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 15:36:39 -0000, Pilgrim <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Waterford frames are made to order, size wise and also with all the
extras somebody may want for a loaded tourer.

Should I clarify that I'm looking for a sub $400 frame too?

Trek 520 is a good choice, the '80's & 90's will run under $200 or so,
the later framesets will run $275-400. If you find a 2000 and up frame
only, sometimes you can get a matching colored Trek fork for around
$75-80, new from Trek.

"Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

There are a lot of frame builders who can make you a frame like you are
looking for - 72° head and seat tube angles, long chainstays, long fork
rake and all of the braze-ons for racks, fenders and so on.

You're probably looking for a very stable, smooth riding bike that you can
take both hands off the bars when your carrying a load of bags on and not
worry about running off the road.

The British made a lot of custom frames like this. Roberts is one brand
that comes to mind that meets all of your requirements. There's on eBay
now:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150128988236&rd=1&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

Mercian is another classic British builder to look for.

There are some folks in this NG who will recommend going with a bike with
650b tires. The problem with those tire is availability. When you are in
the middle of Podunk, Kansas and you need a tire you are SOL.

Chas.

"Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Troll Report said:

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided

against

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

Quoted message said:

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Jesse

I'd go with a bridgestone, sheldons site has a bunch of old catalogs

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

describe all the models. They show up for sale (craigslist,etc)

enough so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you could find whatever model appeals, too.

I have looked into bridgestones. Does anyone know if the MBs have the
needed braze ons? I'd imagine their wheel clearance is fine, but what
about the bottome bracket height and angles? The XOs are probably
better for that, but they seem to be kinda collectible. Thanks!

All of the Bridgestone MBs are mountain bikes with 26" wheels AFAIK. I'd
suggest a bike with 700c wheels for touring.

Chas.

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

I'd watch out for wheel size. Touring bikes were still being made with 27"
wheels long after other road bikes had switched over to 700C. That was
true of my mid-80s lugged Trek 520 and probably true of the 720 of that
era. It's fairly easy to convert old bikes with caliper brakes (using drop
bolts or longer-reach brakes), but I believe cantilever brakes are a
different matter. There are still 27" rims and tires available, but your
choices are pretty meager.

I'd expand your search to include Miyata and Koga-Miyata touring bikes.

"Pilgrim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Jesse

A few more pictures of my 1983 Specialized Expedition Retro Cruiser :
http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/Retro_1.JPG

And if you ride my tail:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomnak/Retro_2.JPG

-tom

do an internet search for retirement communites with good weather,
then bike shops and flea market websites.
the big deal is the frame should fit your lengths so if you fit the
standard sports-tourer from japanese designers
those areas will yield a quality frame for $100.

I second the specialized expedition (early to mid 80's version, not the
current hybrid) Lugged frame - bosses galore 3 wb brackets, relaxed
geometry, 700c rims. The 2nd one I've had after the first was used as the
getaway vehicle when my apt was burglarized. I find myself using the
bridgestone x03 as my primary beast of burden- for some reason it fits me a
skoash better. Was sniffing around a kuwahara but couldnt make the
connection before the widow sold the dead hubbies bike. Ditto for the
bianchi that I dismissed because it was a size or so too small despite the
thing being full kit touring bike. How bout the bridgestone rb series?
Pat

"patrick mitchel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I second the specialized expedition (early to mid 80's version, not the
current hybrid) Lugged frame - bosses galore 3 wb brackets, relaxed
geometry, 700c rims. The 2nd one I've had after the first was used as the
getaway vehicle when my apt was burglarized. I find myself using the
bridgestone x03 as my primary beast of burden- for some reason it fits me a
skoash better. Was sniffing around a kuwahara but couldnt make the
connection before the widow sold the dead hubbies bike. Ditto for the
bianchi that I dismissed because it was a size or so too small despite the
thing being full kit touring bike. How bout the bridgestone rb series?
Pat

Yes, the Bridgestone RB-T, the "T" stands for touring btw, and they had
the cantilever brakes. I believe they came out in 1991 and were short lived.

If you ever have or had the chance to ride a long steel wheelbase bike,
they're very comfortable and stable. Besides the Specialized Expedition,
here are some of the higher end models of Touring Bikes of the 80's and 90's
that can be found at a reasonable price. Upgrades are inexpensive and easy
to do.

These are not my bikes, just ones I've found on the web:

Bridgestone RB-T
http://static.flickr.com/34/71309272_d5c04fb353.jpg

Miyata also put out a Miyata 1000 back in 1981:
http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~rpinder/images/miyata1.jpg

Trek 720 Touring:
http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/WayneB720/Trek720_511.jpg

-tom

Gary Young said:

Pilgrim said:

I'm planning to build a retro touring/cyclocross bike. I was earlier
looking into the Surly "Long Haul Trucker" frame, but decided against
it. It's a great frame, but I've come to realize that they've been
making frames like it for decades, and I'd rather build up an old
frame. Also, they are kind of plain. I'm looking for a lugged steel
frame, with long chainstays, a long wheelbase, laidback touring
angles, clearance for wide tires and fenders, braze-ons and holes for
fenders, front and rear racks, cantilever brakes, downtube shifters,
pump, and bottle cages. What popular bikes in the past have rocked
these features?

Quoted message said:

The early Treks have really got my attention. The 610, and 720 seem to
be really solid frames. Does anyone have any opinions about these
frames, or know of any similar ones?

Quoted message said:

Jesse

I'd watch out for wheel size. Touring bikes were still being made with 27"
wheels long after other road bikes had switched over to 700C. That was
true of my mid-80s lugged Trek 520 and probably true of the 720 of that
era. It's fairly easy to convert old bikes with caliper brakes (using drop
bolts or longer-reach brakes), but I believe cantilever brakes are a
different matter. There are still 27" rims and tires available, but your
choices are pretty meager.

I'd expand your search to include Miyata and Koga-Miyata touring bikes.

But 27" is what you want for touring. You can buy 27"x1-1/4 tires in
a hardware store in a town that does not have a bike shop.
When you get home, you still have enough tire and rim choices on the
web if not in town.

Doug