Another Ti frame thread

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

Quoted message said:

My questions are,

Quoted message said:

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

Quoted message said:

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

Quoted message said:

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Quoted message said:

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

My questions are,

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

First up, carbon forks are standard on nearly every Ti bike, but you
knew that ;-)

I'm riding an '05 Litespeed Ultimate with carbon stays. This model was
the last after about four years, before they switched back to full Ti.
I had, and have, my reservations, but I got the frame at a killer
price and it's a very sweet thing. I figured after four years,
Litespeed would know what they were doing.

Seven bikes also produce a very fine Ti/carbon combo, and LeMond have
produced a mixed frame.

Donga

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donga said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

My questions are,

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

First up, carbon forks are standard on nearly every Ti bike, but you
knew that ;-)

I'm riding an '05 Litespeed Ultimate with carbon stays. This model was
the last after about four years, before they switched back to full Ti.
I had, and have, my reservations, but I got the frame at a killer
price and it's a very sweet thing. I figured after four years,
Litespeed would know what they were doing.

Seven bikes also produce a very fine Ti/carbon combo, and LeMond have
produced a mixed frame.

Thanks Donga for the info. The palladio is also a CF seat stay Ti frame.
Now that you've mentioned it, it's interesting why they all suddenly
backed off from this particular design? Do you think it's a marketing
move (use of Ti/CF suggests that CF is still "better" than Ti) that they
stopped? Or do you think there are real technical reasons for it?

So how did you find the ride of such a design?
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

Quoted message said:

My questions are,

Quoted message said:

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

Quoted message said:

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

Quoted message said:

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Quoted message said:

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

I have the same concern without specific basis. Was your concern based
on something specific? Further, did you get a chance to test ride a
Palladio?
--

Artoi said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donga said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My questions are,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

Quoted message said:

First up, carbon forks are standard on nearly every Ti bike, but you
knew that ;-)

Quoted message said:

I'm riding an '05 Litespeed Ultimate with carbon stays. This model was
the last after about four years, before they switched back to full Ti.
I had, and have, my reservations, but I got the frame at a killer
price and it's a very sweet thing. I figured after four years,
Litespeed would know what they were doing.

Quoted message said:

Seven bikes also produce a very fine Ti/carbon combo, and LeMond have
produced a mixed frame.

Thanks Donga for the info. The palladio is also a CF seat stay Ti frame.
Now that you've mentioned it, it's interesting why they all suddenly
backed off from this particular design? Do you think it's a marketing
move (use of Ti/CF suggests that CF is still "better" than Ti) that they
stopped? Or do you think there are real technical reasons for it?

So how did you find the ride of such a design?
--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The LS Ultimate is a little piggy compared to many modern bikes -
something like 1350 g - Stuie's Cervelo P3 is around 850 g and has a
lifetime warranty. So even with light parts, my bike still nudges 8.5
kg for a similar price to bikes under 8.0. That said, it's a brilliant
crit bike - corners like a rocket (faster than the competition) and
doesn't waste energy in a sprint. I haven't ridden many other bikes
(why would I?) so I can't really say how good it is comparatively,
except it seems comfortable, fast and goes exactly where I point it at
whatever speed. It also creates envy. But given the choice, I'd pick
up another full Ti frame without the carbon.

Seven Cycles still produce several frames with mixed tubing, so they
must be happy. I don't know why LS stopped making them. Perhaps they
admitted to themselves there was no need, and people weren't buying
the marketing gimmick. You also have to question why [censored] around with
something that works, and introduce potential weaknesses?

There are some great Ti specials that come up, on eBay and in online
shops, if you hunt a bit and have time. Don't be in a tearing hurry to
get this one, unless you are sure.

Donga

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.
My questions are,
- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?
- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?
- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.
Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Lessee..take a frame that lasts forever, rides like a dream,
light...and plug some carbon into it so that it probably rides the
same, may be heavier and doesn't last forever...carbon 'plugs' on
steel or ti makes no difference. Serotta is probably most guilty of
random applications of carbon. They have stepped backeard ever since
their ott-rott.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.
My questions are,
- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?
- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?
- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.
Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Quoted message said:

Lessee..take a frame that lasts forever, rides like a dream,
light...and plug some carbon into it so that it probably rides the
same, may be heavier and doesn't last forever...carbon 'plugs' on
steel or ti makes no difference. Serotta is probably most guilty of
random applications of carbon. They have stepped backeard ever since
their ott-rott.

At least Merlin and Litespeed dropped the idea together with
integrated headsets - another con of Opera Paladium.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Artoi said:

Quoted message said:

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

Quoted message said:

I have the same concern without specific basis. Was your concern based
on something specific? Further, did you get a chance to test ride a
Palladio?

my concerns were:

the durability of the joning between carbon and titanium.
the durability of carbon - the reaseon why i wanted ti.
the duarbility of the integrated headset.
the stupidity of using a carbon rear on a Ti frame.
the tubes where not seamless.
It has a clear paint coat opposed to brushed raw titanium.
the weelds where not as nice as the Litespeed Firentze in the shop (My
Merlin CR is even nicer)

I took it for a ride and i was nice but i didn't ride long enough to
determine weater i liked the geometry, however i once had a Pinerello
Stelvio wich i didn't like (Exchanged it with a similar tubed
Battaglin).

btw i abeslutely love the Merlin. The first weeks i had i i rode
across just about every pothole i could find just because i felt so
good. Couldn't do that on my old steel frame(s) without maintaining my
rythem anbd loosing speed. Secondly the merlin looks abselutely gogous.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Artoi said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
Donga <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

My questions are,

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

First up, carbon forks are standard on nearly every Ti bike, but you
knew that ;-)

I'm riding an '05 Litespeed Ultimate with carbon stays. This model was
the last after about four years, before they switched back to full Ti.
I had, and have, my reservations, but I got the frame at a killer
price and it's a very sweet thing. I figured after four years,
Litespeed would know what they were doing.

Seven bikes also produce a very fine Ti/carbon combo, and LeMond have
produced a mixed frame.

Quoted message said:

Thanks Donga for the info. The palladio is also a CF seat stay Ti frame.
Now that you've mentioned it, it's interesting why they all suddenly
backed off from this particular design? Do you think it's a marketing
move (use of Ti/CF suggests that CF is still "better" than Ti) that they
stopped? Or do you think there are real technical reasons for it?

Technical reasons, glue wont last forever; neiter will carbon and the
carbon insert can potentially limmit the lifetime of the titanium tube.

Secondly, carbon is now a mainstream material, thus
the exotic effect of having a carbon rear has diminished.

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Donga said:

The LS Ultimate is a little piggy compared to many modern bikes -
something like 1350 g

it would proberbly have been lighter with a full titanium rear...

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

My questions are,

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

A Ti frame with a CF rear end is the dumbest combination possible.
Ti has some nice properties which you throw away when gluing a CF rear
end to it.

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu (http://www.nb.nu)

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Artoi <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
> frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
> being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
> frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
> interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
> am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
> bike.
> My questions are,
> - Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
> on the ride and stiffness of the frame?
> - Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
> Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
> in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?
> - Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
> am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
> concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.
> Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
> Thanks!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

--
Morten Reippuert Knudsen :-) <http://blog.reippuert.dk>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Merlin Works CR-3/2.5 & Campagnolo Chorus 2007.

Lessee..take a frame that lasts forever, rides like a dream,
light...and plug some carbon into it so that it probably rides the
same, may be heavier and doesn't last forever...carbon 'plugs' on
steel or ti makes no difference. Serotta is probably most guilty of
random applications of carbon. They have stepped backeard ever since
their ott-rott.

At least Merlin and Litespeed dropped the idea together with
integrated headsets - another con of Opera Paladium.

And if the Opera is anything like other modern Pinarello's, the
integrated headset is their own concoction, making replacement even
more of a hassle. I got some bearings at a machine supply place for
mine, but it was just luck they had them.

The Opera is a fine bike for 11,000 DKK but it would have to be
cheaper to interest me.

I think they dropped this bike not for some marketing targeting, but
just because they didn't sell.

Joseph

In article <[email hidden]>,

Lou Holtman said:

Artoi said:

Wondering if anyone is familiar with Opera's (Pinarello) Palladio Ti/CF
frame? I understand it came out in 2004 and ran for one year before
being withdrawn from the market. The available info on the net on this
frame is extremely limited. I've come across one such frame and is very
interested. But without feedback on the net and unable to test ride, I
am indecisive if it would be smart purchase to build it up as a project
bike.

My questions are,

- Is any familiar with it and have any experience with it? Any comment
on the ride and stiffness of the frame?

- Is Ti/CF a wise combination (seat stay and fork are CF)? I know that
Ti is "forever" as they say. But would CF be as durable? At some point
in the future, would be be possible to just replace the CF seat stay?

- Any technical reason why this frame got withdrawn from the market? I
am not worried about it being expensive and lacked buyers. I am
concerned if there's a technical flaw that shortened its product life.

Any other comments and advise on buying a Ti frame is also most welcome.
Thanks!
--

A Ti frame with a CF rear end is the dumbest combination possible.
Ti has some nice properties which you throw away when gluing a CF rear
end to it.

Yes, I couldn't quite figure that one out given that Ti is supposedly
supple, a quality that's similar or better than CF. Wasn't sure if it
was just a marketing decision, to say that we have carbon too, or some
technical benefits.
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Donga said:

The LS Ultimate is a little piggy compared to many modern bikes -
something like 1350 g - Stuie's Cervelo P3 is around 850 g and has a
lifetime warranty. So even with light parts, my bike still nudges 8.5
kg for a similar price to bikes under 8.0. That said, it's a brilliant
crit bike - corners like a rocket (faster than the competition) and
doesn't waste energy in a sprint. I haven't ridden many other bikes
(why would I?) so I can't really say how good it is comparatively,
except it seems comfortable, fast and goes exactly where I point it at
whatever speed. It also creates envy. But given the choice, I'd pick
up another full Ti frame without the carbon.

Seven Cycles still produce several frames with mixed tubing, so they
must be happy. I don't know why LS stopped making them. Perhaps they
admitted to themselves there was no need, and people weren't buying
the marketing gimmick. You also have to question why [censored] around with
something that works, and introduce potential weaknesses?

There are some great Ti specials that come up, on eBay and in online
shops, if you hunt a bit and have time. Don't be in a tearing hurry to
get this one, unless you are sure.

Thanks for the detail.

At 1350g, I'd think you should be able to push the bike weight down to
sub-8kg easy with careful choice ($$) of components. This Palladio is
supposedly at 1315g. I am aiming at 7.5kg for the full bike if things
work out as planned.
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

At least Merlin and Litespeed dropped the idea together with
integrated headsets - another con of Opera Paladium.

Integrated headset? I didn't think that Opera Palladium had integrated
headset. There was nothing special with the headset as far as I could
tell.
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

And if the Opera is anything like other modern Pinarello's, the
integrated headset is their own concoction, making replacement even
more of a hassle. I got some bearings at a machine supply place for
mine, but it was just luck they had them.

As I posted earlier, I didn't think Palladium had integrated headset.

Quoted message said:

The Opera is a fine bike for 11,000 DKK but it would have to be
cheaper to interest me.

Yes, the original ticker price on the frame was pretty crazy.

Quoted message said:

I think they dropped this bike not for some marketing targeting, but
just because they didn't sell.

That's reassuring in a way as bad engineering would be something I would
not be able to live with.
--

In article <[email hidden]>,

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

Artoi said:

Quoted message said:

Last year when i was i the market for at ti fram i consindered it
because two of my local dealers had a significant discount on it at
arround 11K dkr. However after investigating i was worried about the
joining of carbon and titamium. Insted i bought a Merlin for 22K dkr
wich is a lot nicer.

Quoted message said:

I have the same concern without specific basis. Was your concern based
on something specific? Further, did you get a chance to test ride a
Palladio?

my concerns were:

the durability of the joning between carbon and titanium.
the durability of carbon - the reaseon why i wanted ti.
the duarbility of the integrated headset.
the stupidity of using a carbon rear on a Ti frame.
the tubes where not seamless.
It has a clear paint coat opposed to brushed raw titanium.
the weelds where not as nice as the Litespeed Firentze in the shop (My
Merlin CR is even nicer)

I took it for a ride and i was nice but i didn't ride long enough to
determine weater i liked the geometry, however i once had a Pinerello
Stelvio wich i didn't like (Exchanged it with a similar tubed
Battaglin).

btw i abeslutely love the Merlin. The first weeks i had i i rode
across just about every pothole i could find just because i felt so
good. Couldn't do that on my old steel frame(s) without maintaining my
rythem anbd loosing speed. Secondly the merlin looks abselutely gogous.

Thanks for your input.

Interesting set of concerns. The joint b/n CF and Ti is probably ok
given that there are so many Alu/CF frames these days. There must be
some good durability data on that. I didn't notice that the tubes
weren't seamless, I'll have to have another look at that one.
--

Morten Reippuert Knudsen said:

the durability of the joning between carbon and titanium.

In general that is a real concern, but there have been people doing this
for some time, with good success.

Quoted message said:

the durability of carbon - the reaseon why i wanted ti.

Well,... in that case, get ti. Seriously, if your major concern is
longevity, an all-ti frame is hard to beat, especially if it is _not_
stupid-light.

Quoted message said:

the duarbility of the integrated headset.

IMO a bad idea. Headsets can wear out, or at least parts will. Who
knows whether the bearings or press-in cups will be available in 5
years? If it is a standard headset, you can replace the whole thing if
the particular brand/model is no longer made, but it's a shame to throw
away a good (and expensive) frame because you can't find a headset part.

Quoted message said:

the stupidity of using a carbon rear on a Ti frame.

Not my choice, but...

Quoted message said:

the tubes where not seamless.

Huh? Is this 6/4 alloy?

Quoted message said:

It has a clear paint coat opposed to brushed raw titanium.

Boo. IMNSHO titanium should not be painted, and clearcoating is oubly
bad. No reason to do that.

Quoted message said:

the weelds where not as nice as the Litespeed Firentze in the shop

Now, why is it that you want this bike?

--

David L. Johnson

If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach
a conclusion. -- George Bernard Shaw

In article <[email hidden]>,

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

the duarbility of the integrated headset.

IMO a bad idea. Headsets can wear out, or at least parts will. Who
knows whether the bearings or press-in cups will be available in 5
years? If it is a standard headset, you can replace the whole thing if
the particular brand/model is no longer made, but it's a shame to throw
away a good (and expensive) frame because you can't find a headset part.

I am not sure that Opera Palladio has integrated headset. Can any one
verify this one?
--