Orbea Bottom Bracket shell woes

I have built up two new Orbea frames and both were English thread, and I
believe they have been using English thread for some years now. Depending on
how old your Orbea is it may well be a French thread. France is just up the
road from the Orbea factory (relatively speaking), and is one of their
biggest markets, so they may have used French thread to make the frogs
happy. This is just a theory though, I may be completely wrong.

"Paul Hobson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey y'all.

Here's the short version.

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that
here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there b/c
the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Here's the short version.

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Sounds like it was English, and somebody chased the drive side with
the wrong (left side, rh thread) cutter.

I'd try cutting it with the correct cutter and using a bb/crank like
Shimano Ultegra external bearing type so the crank helps hold it
together. If the threads are really hosed, maybe try converting them
to ITA.

Good luck!

Joseph

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Here's the short version.

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Here's the short version.

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Common suggestion round these parts is to resize/rethread the bb shell
to Italian threading. Other suggestions have been to fill the threads
with brass and re-tap.

I like the first suggestion, although then you are dealing with the
inferior Italian threading and it's greater tendency to loosen.

D'ohBoy

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Here's the short version.

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame...

I don't know if this changes anything in your assessment, but the frame
is certainly steel. Maybe I'll call around to see if any one can ream
it out to an actual Italian threading (since I happen to have this DA bb
just sittin' around).

Quoted message said:

somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Thanks for the knowledge.
\\paul

D'ohBoy said:

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Quoted message said:

Here's the short version.

Quoted message said:

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

I'm at a loss here.

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Common suggestion round these parts is to resize/rethread the bb shell
to Italian threading. Other suggestions have been to fill the threads
with brass and re-tap.

I like the first suggestion, although then you are dealing with the
inferior Italian threading and it's greater tendency to loosen.

D'ohBoy

Tee, hee....nice try.

email hidden said:

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Quoted message said:

Here's the short version.

Quoted message said:

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

I'm at a loss here.

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Sounds like it was English, and somebody chased the drive side with
the wrong (left side, rh thread) cutter.

I'd try cutting it with the correct cutter and using a bb/crank like
Shimano Ultegra external bearing type so the crank helps hold it
together. If the threads are really hosed, maybe try converting them
to ITA.

Thanks for the tip.

Here's the email Orbea just sent me (<12 hr response time!)

/-----------<QUOTE>
|Hi Paul,
|
|If it's a road bike, then the bottom bracket should be 68mm in width,
which
|can be measured with a micrometer, and is English threaded.
|
|Feel the Ride!
|
|Orbea Tech
\-----------</QUOTE>

So it looks like you're right :/

On Feb 12, 8:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

Quoted message said:

Here's the short version.

Quoted message said:

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

I'm at a loss here.

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

Paul Hobson said:

On Feb 12, 8:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.
Here's the short version.
-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side
ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading
Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?
I'm at a loss here.
Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell. best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra. if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

good luck.

Paul Hobson said:

On Feb 12, 8:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Feb 11, 1:32 pm, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hey y'all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's the short version.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm at a loss here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Quoted message said:

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased

Another option is a so-called threadless BB, such as the ones from
Stronglight* and YST**. The BB shell will need to be champhered prior
to installation, but that's likely less of a hassle than rethreading
to Italian.

* available from XX Cycles (xxcycle.com)

** available from Bike Tools, Etc.

<major snippage of discussion of bb dilemma>

Sounds like Hobson's choice to me.

<eg>

D'ohBoy

D'ohBoy said:

<major snippage of discussion of bb dilemma>

Sounds like Hobson's choice to me.

<eg>

Internet punography!

Paul Hobson said:

On Feb 12, 8:49 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Feb 11, 1:32 pm, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hey y'all.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Here's the short version.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

-Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
-Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
-Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
-LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
-LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
-At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
-Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
-New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm at a loss here.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks in advance,
--
\\paul
(replace all caps with numerals)

Quoted message said:

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

Since it is steel, I'd try to just chase it with the proper thread and
hope there was enough left in there to get the correct bb threaded in
there (maybe by force) and I'd just ride it and consider it a
permanent installation. If that failed miserably, then I'd start
thinking about brass or something like one of those threadless bb's
and reaming to ITA as a last resort.

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

jim beam said:

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell.

The frame's steel, so it's way easier, right?

Quoted message said:

best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra.

certainly sounds like an option, though I'd need new cranks :/

Quoted message said:

if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

Does the fact that it's a steel frame give you any more confidence in
the retap to Italian method?

Paul Hobson said:

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

jim beam said:

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell.

The frame's steel, so it's way easier, right?

Quoted message said:

best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra.

certainly sounds like an option, though I'd need new cranks :/

Quoted message said:

if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

Does the fact that it's a steel frame give you any more confidence in
the retap to Italian method?

I've changed my mind. I would go with the brass. Bet it would give
better long-term service, is repairable again via the same method,
leaves you with a lotta shell, just plain better IMO. And as a last
resort, you could go ITA threading.

All ya gotta do is find a good full service shop or framebuilder in
your area. Too bad for you Andy Muzi's not in your area - he is the
king of "making it work" and not afraid of grinders, brass fill,
etc....

D'ohBoy

Paul Hobson said:

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

jim beam said:

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell.

The frame's steel, so it's way easier, right?

kinda. personally, i'd just go for the forcible entry route with the
ultegra bb cartridge.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra.

certainly sounds like an option, though I'd need new cranks :/

they're not so bad. i run octalink 105's on my normal bikes - they're
just dandy and available on sale right now.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

Does the fact that it's a steel frame give you any more confidence in
the retap to Italian method?

yes. just as long as it's not one of those skinny tig type shells.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On Feb 11, 1:32 pm, Paul Hobson <[email hidden]> wrote:
> Here's the short version.
> -Get hit by a bar, wreck the frame.
> -Find seemingly awesome deal on an old Orbea with an "English BB shell"
> -Order a BB at the LBS, it arrives...
> -LBS: "Whoops, frame's Italian threaded," so I get an Italian BB
> -LBS: "That didn't work either b/c the shell's threads are toast"
> -At home, the old fixed/LH side cup threads in well (right/tight)
> -Also, the same fixed cup also threads in well on the RH/drive side
> -New Shimano 105 English BB threads in well on RH/drive side
> ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see
> that here:http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading
> Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
> b/c the threads are indeed toast?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

NOT french threaded. I'm guessing, in this soft, aluminum frame,
somebody rammed a right threaded but wrong side BB tap into the shell
and then finished the 'mistake' making them clean. It isn't Italian, a
english cup would just slide in as the ID s bigger with Italian.

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

jim beam said:

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell. best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra. if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

ISTR the OP said this was a steel frame.
In which case he can either fill/tap or cut out to Italian based on the
local guy's rates or the paint condition. (Filling burns paint, cutting
oversize doesn't). Not much technical difference, mostly preference.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Paul Hobson said:

Quoted message said:

Paul Hobson said:

Here's my next question since Joseph seems to be right. Would you
recommend boring the BB shell out to Italian thread (hard to get a
bike shop to do that locally)? Or would it be better to just fill the
non-drive side with brass and face/tap that side, leaving the other
side to be faced/chased?

jim beam said:

you're not going to easily brass weld an aluminum bb shell.

The frame's steel, so it's way easier, right?

Quoted message said:

best bet is
to get the english thread back in there, preferably, as advised by
joseph, with a rigid cartridge like ultegra.

certainly sounds like an option, though I'd need new cranks :/

Quoted message said:

if you go italian, inspect
the shell each ride - it will be slightly thinner - this will lead to a
greater propensity to cracking if it wasn't designed for it. not right
away, but in time.

Does the fact that it's a steel frame give you any more confidence in
the retap to Italian method?

Paul, I have a tandem whose stoker BB was neatly threaded *both ways*
on *both sides* (English threads, both left-hand and right-hand
threads on the drive and non-drive side). I just chased the correct
threads, greased them as usual and installed the BB cups to the
specified torque. It's been fine for us for the last eleven years, I'd
guess about 2000 miles so far. This is with the original Ultegra
square-taper bb (probably BB-UN72 or something like it). I'd guess the
same might work for you; seems like there's little risk to giving it a
try.

Paul Hobson said:

Hey y'all.

....

Quoted message said:

ok. So both sides are RH threaded, 1.37" x 24 tpi? I don't see that here:
http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html#threading

Is it possible that it's French threaded and the Shimano went in there
b/c the threads are indeed toast?

I'm at a loss here.

Thanks for the tips everyone! I really appreciate the input. Turns out
there's a frame builder in town that all of the shops have recommended.
I'll be giving her a call as soon as this grad-school week from hell
is over.
\\paul