Larry!

I've swum in literally scores of ocean races, but I only swam in a single masters pool race, a few
years back. Went 1:21 in the 100 back and 37 something in the 50 back (both yards). Inspired by you
(appreciated your explanation of how to keep my goggles on when I dive), I will try to enter a
masters meet sometime this year. Not this weekend, though (need to practice my dives...which is
difficult, since the pools where I swim (Los Caballeros in Fountain Valley and Belmont Plaza in Long
Beach) don't allow lap swimmers to
dive. I was on a masters team one winter, but my pool time is limited and I'm happier having the
freedom to do what I enjoy most...which is mainly just swimming laps in the fashion of
Marianne Eagen (though I don't go nearly as far as her...usually total only about 9,000
yards a week).

"Larry Weisenthal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've swum in literally scores of ocean races, but I only swam in a single masters pool race, a few
years back. Went 1:21 in the 100 back and 37 something in the 50 back (both yards). Inspired by
you (appreciated your explanation of how to keep my goggles on when I dive), I will try to enter

a

Quoted message said:

masters meet sometime this year. Not this weekend, though (need to

practice my

Quoted message said:

dives...which is difficult, since the pools where I swim (Los Caballeros

in

Quoted message said:

Fountain Valley and Belmont Plaza in Long Beach) don't allow lap swimmers

to

Quoted message said:

dive. I was on a masters team one winter, but my pool time is limited and

I'm

Quoted message said:

happier having the freedom to do what I enjoy most...which is mainly just swimming laps in the
fashion of Marianne Eagen (though I don't go nearly

as far

Quoted message said:

as her...usually total only about 9,000 yards a week).

Well, if you are not too far from Los Caballeros, you're probably not all that far fro mthe Corona
Del Mar Highschool, they have a pool with afternoon/early evening lap hours for master's swimmers.
They do allow diving. I swam there couple years ago when I did a lot of my lap swimming. It's 3
bucks per swim, or you can get a yearly membership. There's quite a few serious swimmers coming to
that one, I've seen many triathletes, and a few nova's.

One of our team members swims somewhere in Long Beach, daily, since she lives there, I'l lhave to
ask her where...

Our coach has been talking about doing "sarts and turns" clinic sometime over next month or so. It
definately covers the no-goggle-slip-dive. Usually he does those on sunday afternoons, and they're
pretty cheap, about 15 bucks for a 2 hour clinic. It's open to everyone, not just the team members.
If you're interested, I'll let you know when that gets scheduled.

We (the coach and I and couple other people) were talking about him doing a clinic that is geared
specifically towards triathletes, and the issues that are more common to them. That may not happen
till after the first of the year... Oh, not to worry, our coach is not a TI-only-nut, and has 25+
years of experience coaching. So, he's seen the fads come and go, and he's seen what works...

There is a meet November 8th at UCLA, and there's one at West Hollywood on the 28th, and the SCM
Southern Pac championships dec 12-14. I'm signed up for all three.

This last weekend meet, I did: 1500m 29:50-something 50m - 45:09 (I was bummed cause I was doing
43's in practice), but this was after swimming a 1500 At LCM's in August I was doing 54's for 50M

100m 1:45:29... vs. 1:58 in august.

And an un-memorable 400 at the end of the day...

so, I'm happy, overall... My times are dropping. Maybe by december I can go under 40 in 50M free,
and be around 35 by April.... We'll see.

DaKitty said:

There is a meet November 8th at UCLA, and there's one at West Hollywood on the 28th, and the SCM
Southern Pac championships dec 12-14. I'm signed up for all three.

Nov 23rd is Pierce College. There aren't any SPMA meets on the 28th. At least none that I've been
informed of.

Quoted message said:

This last weekend meet, I did: 1500m 29:50-something

Nice splits on that one.

Quoted message said:

50m - 45:09 (I was bummed cause I was doing 43's in practice), but this was after swimming a 1500
At LCM's in August I was doing 54's for 50M

100m 1:45:29... vs. 1:58 in august.

And an un-memorable 400 at the end of the day...

so, I'm happy, overall... My times are dropping. Maybe by december I can go under 40 in 50M free,
and be around 35 by April.... We'll see.

"Me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty said:

There is a meet November 8th at UCLA, and there's one at West Hollywood

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the 28th, and the SCM Southern Pac championships dec 12-14. I'm signed

up

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for all three.

Nov 23rd is Pierce College. There aren't any SPMA meets on the 28th. At least none that I've been
informed of.

Yea, the one on the 23.. sorry, 28th was a typo, and I went form memory, and called woodland Hills
West Hollywod.... The Turkey shoot one. (Ugh, it really butchered that one... )

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This last weekend meet, I did: 1500m 29:50-something

Nice splits on that one.

Yea, I was pretty consistent. This is the first time I swam a 1500 M in a meter pool, and at a meet.
I took it easy, and kind of wanted to see what happens, I had no idea what to expect.. Now I know I
can push it a bit harder... Since you know my splits, you probably looked up my time, it was
29:5?.?? I'll have to go look it up when I come back...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

50m - 45:09 (I was bummed cause I was doing 43's in practice), but this

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

after swimming a 1500 At LCM's in August I was doing 54's for 50M

100m 1:45:29... vs. 1:58 in august.

And an un-memorable 400 at the end of the day...

so, I'm happy, overall... My times are dropping. Maybe by december I

can go

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

under 40 in 50M free, and be around 35 by April.... We'll see.

DaKitty said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This last weekend meet, I did: 1500m 29:50-something

Nice splits on that one.

Yea, I was pretty consistent. This is the first time I swam a 1500 M in a meter pool, and at a
meet. I took it easy, and kind of wanted to see what happens, I had no idea what to expect.. Now I
know I can push it a bit harder... Since you know my splits, you probably looked up my time, it
was 29:5?.?? I'll have to go look it up when I come back...

52.87 1:51.29 2:50.13 3:49.34 4:51.26 5:49.99 6:50.05 7:47.99
52:1.89 9:48.15 10:48.83 11:48.30 12:48.44 13:49.56 14:50.33 15:50.32
52:2.60 17:49.26 18:49.60 19:49.91 20:51.20 21:51.76 22:50.93 23:52.30
52:3.61 25:53.03 26:54.00 27:54.40 28:54.03 29:50.80

Just happen to have an email from your coach in my inbox with the 1500s at the top.

"Me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty said:

Quoted message said:

>This last weekend meet, I did: 1500m 29:50-something

Nice splits on that one.

Yea, I was pretty consistent. This is the first time I swam a 1500 M in

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meter pool, and at a meet. I took it easy, and kind of wanted to see

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

happens, I had no idea what to expect.. Now I know I can push it a bit harder... Since you know
my splits, you probably looked up my time, it was

29:5?.??

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll have to go look it up when I come back...

52.87 1:51.29 2:50.13 3:49.34 4:51.26 5:49.99 6:50.05 7:47.99
8:47.89 9:48.15 10:48.83 11:48.30 12:48.44 13:49.56 14:50.33

29:1.32

Quoted message said:

16:49.60 17:49.26 18:49.60 19:49.91 20:51.20 21:51.76 22:50.93

29:2.30

Quoted message said:

24:52.61 25:53.03 26:54.00 27:54.40 28:54.03 29:50.80

Just happen to have an email from your coach in my inbox with the 1500s at the top.

ah! I knew the results were posted, I looked them up yestrday really quickly, or the day before,
then I misplaced the link, after I downloaded the meet forms to send in.... Which "Me" are you? Or
would you rather not say here? Have I met you?

Yea, I'm just learning about the splits and pacing, I haven't had a chance to ask the coach about
them, but several people have commented that it is a good thing that they are relatively consistent.
(Even if very slow) Increasing the speed jsut a tad in last 10 was deliberate, when I saw the
counter at 50, and realized I still have a lot of ebergy left, I carefully tried to up the pace just
a tad. And around the middle there are couple of slower ones, I remember my neck was getting little
stiff, so I did some longer stretchy strokes to loosen it up.

The interesting thing was, the 400 at the end of the meet seemed like it took a lot more energy to
swim that one (slower) at the end of the meet, than a 1500 at the begining. I was feeling quite
springy after the 1500. By the end of the day, I was very pooped.

well... I'm rambling.. as if this is as interesting for you as it is for me. Well, I'm learning, and
a lot more to go (learning and conditioning)

DaKitty said:

ah! I knew the results were posted, I looked them up yestrday really quickly, or the day before,
then I misplaced the link, after I downloaded the meet forms to send in.... Which "Me" are you? Or
would you rather not say here? Have I met you?

Last weekend was the first meet I was at in about a year. I am horribly out of shape and need to do
something about it, so I'm swimming all the SCM meets this year. I don't believe we've met but I
will introduce myself at the next meet!

Quoted message said:

Yea, I'm just learning about the splits and pacing, I haven't had a chance to ask the coach about
them, but several people have commented that it is a good thing that they are relatively
consistent.

That is much preferable to the exponential increasing splits, like my 200 fly of Sunday. Even splits
is better than carrying the proverbial piano.

Quoted message said:

(Even if very slow) Increasing the speed jsut a tad in last 10 was deliberate, when I saw the
counter at 50, and realized I still have a lot of ebergy left, I carefully tried to up the pace
just a tad. And around the middle there are couple of slower ones, I remember my neck was getting
little stiff, so I did some longer stretchy strokes to loosen it up.

I only get my splits like I like them after I've done the event a bunch of times (in recent
history). Something about learning what kind of shape I'm in (or not).

Quoted message said:

The interesting thing was, the 400 at the end of the meet seemed like it took a lot more energy to
swim that one (slower) at the end of the meet, than a 1500 at the begining. I was feeling quite
springy after the 1500. By the end of the day, I was very pooped.

Hell, it was hot, as hell. And that drains far more energy from you than you realize. And it's
likely you were dehydrated, too (I was, even though I tried to drink a lot of fluids).

Quoted message said:

well... I'm rambling.. as if this is as interesting for you as it is for me. Well, I'm learning,
and a lot more to go (learning and conditioning)

It never ends.

"Me" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty said:

ah! I knew the results were posted, I looked them up yestrday really

quickly, or

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the day before, then I misplaced the link, after I downloaded the meet

forms

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to send in.... Which "Me" are you? Or would you rather not say here? Have I met you?

Last weekend was the first meet I was at in about a year. I am horribly out of shape and need to
do something about it, so I'm swimming all the SCM meets this year. I don't believe we've met but
I will introduce myself at the next meet!

Well, welcome back 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yea, I'm just learning about the splits and pacing, I haven't had a

chance

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to ask the coach about them, but several people have commented that it

is a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

good thing that they are relatively consistent.

That is much preferable to the exponential increasing splits, like my 200 fly of Sunday. Even
splits is better than carrying the proverbial

piano.

Ah! Your fly on sunday? I took a lot of photos of the fly, I bet I caught your pic too. I'm gonna do
the postal 3000Y Sunday.... good training to try and pace myself, maybe increase the intensity a
tad... a secong per lap, that's half a minute in a 1500. Maybe I can do a second per length.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Even if very slow) Increasing the speed jsut a tad in last 10 was deliberate, when I saw

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

counter at 50, and realized I still have a lot of ebergy left, I

carefully

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tried to up the pace just a tad. And around the middle there are couple

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

slower ones, I remember my neck was getting little stiff, so I did some longer stretchy strokes
to loosen it up.

I only get my splits like I like them after I've done the event a bunch of times (in recent
history). Something about learning what kind of shape I'm in (or not).

hmmm. I'm too chicken to go all out at first, caus I don't know how to gage my energy yet, in a long
race like that, and sprinting, I'm dead after a
100. 1 minute seems to be the pace that I can easily hold forever (well, relatively speaking). I'm
guessing now that I have a baseline, I can start working on pacing myself a tad faster. See
where my theshold is where I can no longer hold it. Partially, I'm in a same boat as you, I
haven't done any exercise in several years, with the exception of few months of lap swimming
couple of years ago. I still have a very long way to go condition wise.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The interesting thing was, the 400 at the end of the meet seemed like it took a lot more energy
to swim that one (slower) at the end of the meet, than a 1500 at the begining. I was feeling
quite springy after the 1500. By the end of the day, I was very pooped.

Hell, it was hot, as hell. And that drains far more energy from you than you realize. And it's
likely you were dehydrated, too (I was, even though I tried to drink a lot of fluids).

Yeap. I brought a gallon of water with me, and a bottle of gatorade and finished it all. And hit a
snack bar couple of times for more water. Had a small carb breakfast that morning, and let the
gatorade be the bulk of my calories or the day. I think I had another snack, perhaps a banana... I
don't recall exactly. Plus, If I wasn't swimming, I was pacing up and down the deck taking photo's,
since I'm kind of the photographer for the team... I was trying to catch some mid air shots of
people diving in, so I would squat dowm, take a shot, then hop up, try to take a shot of the swim,
then squat back down again for the next heat. Did that till the time came for my 50 free event...
Just before my event I thought, I better sit down for a while, I'm getting tired, and my event is
coming up... Too late... I was up in the 2nd heat (if I remember right). Just had time to gear up
and hop in. Between that, and 6 milion flip turns in the 1500, my hams and glutes are still sore.
Yea, I wasn't too happy that i did a 45, cause I've been doing 43's in practice last week, I was
hoping for a 42, or better starting off the block and all that... And I hesitated at the start...
till don't have the whistle/buzzer pattern down to a second nature, so I have to peek over and see
if people are jumping.... Then getting out of the pool without the ladder, sheesh, it's just 3
weeks ago that my upper body got strong enough to where I can sort of climb my way out of the pool
(it's not a pretty sight). well, what I'm getting at... lots of little things that I'm noticing
sapping the energy out of me, and I don't have a whole lot to spare yet. As the day went on I was
getting niocely exhausetd. I was going to make the 400 optional, and scratch if I was totoo tired,
and by the time it was my turn, I was to tired to even think about scratching it, just went on
auto-pilot and hopped in. That felt like a never-ending 400. Good thing we had counters, cause I
was pretty dazed by then. But hey, learning itall that is fun, keeps me entertained. (and here I go
rambling again)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

well... I'm rambling.. as if this is as interesting for you as it is for

me.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I'm learning, and a lot more to go (learning and conditioning)

It never ends.

That's a good thing, for me anyways, keeps me interested. Did you try that Chili at the snack bar?
man that was good, our coach made
mf. I had a plate-full at the end, it hit the spot. Oh, and we'll have some meet pictures on our
team website in next few days... you culd be in them.

DaKitty said:

I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list, they
do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Madelaine said:

DaKitty said:

I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list,
they do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Obviously you didn't read the follow ups to see the direction this post took, or you wouldn't have
even considered making such a rude remark.

Me said:

Madelaine said:

DaKitty said:

I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list,
they do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Obviously you didn't read the follow ups to see the direction this post took, or you wouldn't have
even considered making such a rude remark.

Well, where else could it go from fawning obsequiousness?

I'm sorry, I must be overtrained. It's those damned fins.

martin

"Larry Weisenthal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just one other comment.

A major problem with following Madalaine's good advice (keeping private conversations private) is
that easily half of the e-mail addresses on the subject lines aren't real addresses at all. In
some cases, it's possible

to

Quoted message said:

discern the real e-mail address (I don't think many of the people who've written to me privately
have had trouble deducing the "true" address of [email hidden]. In other cases (e.g.
dakitty's), it's not so easy, particularly when the poster in question already told us she'd
been the

target

Quoted message said:

of a stalker, making the wish for annonymity understandable. Also, the newsgroup has been rather
quiet recently, and I didn't think bandwith was

a

Quoted message said:

huge problem. So, yeah, I was guilty of a little insider/localism (I tend

to

Quoted message said:

do this from time to time).

I think she is just being extra sensitive because I wasn't nice to her and
M.W. so now she's scrutinizing every detail of what I do. It happens. There's nothing wrong with
promoting positive things aroiund here, even if they are a tad on the personal side, or
directed specifically at a poster. Plus, what waas posted could have been beneficial for others
that are in the area in question..

Quoted message said:

But Madelaine's point is well taken and, as in my 12 step program to

abstain

Quoted message said:

from abusing TI, I'll also henceforth try to be less up close and

personal.

Quoted message said:

- Larry

Hey Larry, it was just announced, there is a "Starts and turns Clinic on
12/7" May I email you more info?

DaKitty wrote: <SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of a stalker, making the wish for annonymity understandable. Also, the newsgroup has been rather
quiet recently, and I didn't think bandwith was

a

Quoted message said:

huge problem. So, yeah, I was guilty of a little insider/localism (I tend

to

Quoted message said:

do this from time to time).

I think she is just being extra sensitive because I wasn't nice to her and
M.W. so now she's scrutinizing every detail of what I do. It happens. There's nothing wrong with
promoting positive things aroiund here, even if they are a tad on the personal side, or
directed specifically at a poster. Plus, what waas posted could have been beneficial for
others that are in the area in question..

Before you arrived on the scene, this newsgroup was primarily about swimming and individual
personalities were a very distant 17th or 18th, well below goggles. Since you have shown up and
dominated this newsgroup with your all-about-me style, it has become far too much about
personalities.

As an exercise, try composing something short and to the point which is about swimming and now about
you in any way.

Madelaine

Madelaine said:

DaKitty said:

I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list,
they do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Is that really a rule? Is it in the FAQ? Haven't read them recently so they could be. OTOH
seems strange if it is. If I know someone on here does that mean I can't mention any
interaction I may have had with that person? If so how far does this extend. I.E. can Larry
no longer mention that he went to a clinic with Dr. Strangelove if Dr. Strangelove
occasionally visits here. Does this also include any other personal interactions we may have
with people that don't visit here or is that ok. I guess I'm just a little fuzy on the
details and need a little clearing up.

~Matt

Madelaine said:

DaKitty wrote: <SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of a stalker, making the wish for annonymity understandable. Also, the newsgroup has been rather
quiet recently, and I didn't think bandwith was

a

Quoted message said:

huge problem. So, yeah, I was guilty of a little insider/localism (I tend

to

Quoted message said:

do this from time to time).

I think she is just being extra sensitive because I wasn't nice to her and
M.W. so now she's scrutinizing every detail of what I do. It happens. There's nothing wrong with
promoting positive things aroiund here, even if they are a tad on the personal side, or
directed specifically at a poster. Plus, what waas posted could have been beneficial for
others that are in the area in question..

Before you arrived on the scene, this newsgroup was primarily about swimming and individual
personalities were a very distant 17th or 18th, well below goggles. Since you have shown up and
dominated this newsgroup with your all-about-me style, it has become far too much about
personalities.

As an exercise, try composing something short and to the point which is about swimming and now
about you in any way.

Madelaine

I meant "not" about you.

Quoted message said:

Before you arrived on the scene, this newsgroup was primarily about swimming and individual
personalities were a very distant 17th or 18th, well below goggles. Since you have shown up and
dominated this newsgroup with your all-about-me style, it has become far too much about
personalities.

As an exercise, try composing something short and to the point which is about swimming and now
about you in any way.

Madelaine

I do not agree with your opinion of Larry or his "style." I would rather read his posts than yours
and I have learned more from his posts than I have from yours. Maybe you ARE too sensitive.

Pat in TX

"Madelaine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaKitty wrote: <SNIP>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of a stalker, making the wish for annonymity understandable. Also, the newsgroup has been rather
quiet recently, and I didn't think bandwith

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

huge problem. So, yeah, I was guilty of a little insider/localism (I

tend

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to

Quoted message said:

do this from time to time).

I think she is just being extra sensitive because I wasn't nice to her

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

M.W. so now she's scrutinizing every detail of what I do. It happens. There's nothing wrong with
promoting positive things aroiund here, even

if

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they are a tad on the personal side, or directed specifically at a

poster.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Plus, what waas posted could have been beneficial for others that are in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

area in question..

Before you arrived on the scene, this newsgroup was primarily about swimming and individual
personalities were a very distant 17th or 18th, well below goggles. Since you have shown up and
dominated this newsgroup with your all-about-me style, it has become far too much about
personalities.

As an exercise, try composing something short and to the point which is about swimming and now
about you in any way.

Madelaine

Dear Madelaine

I've given your request some consideration, and I regret to inform you that I am not interested in
pursuing your suggestion. However, You are more than welcome to ignore my posts and threads. I
assure you my feelings will not be hurt, nor will I feel left out.

Sincerely, DaKitty

"M.W.Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Me said:

Madelaine said:

DaKitty wrote:

> I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???
>
>
>

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list,
they do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Obviously you didn't read the follow ups to see the direction this post took, or you wouldn't
have even considered making such a rude remark.

Well, where else could it go from fawning obsequiousness?

I'm sorry, I must be overtrained. It's those damned fins.

martin

see, told ya them fins can be destructive!

😉 [just kidding]

MJuric said:

Madelaine said:

DaKitty said:

I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this weekend???

Usually when people have personal communication with other people that they know from the list,
they do it off list. This is a newsgroup, not a chat room. Madelaine

Is that really a rule?

Yes. The key is in the meaning of the word newsgroup. "I was hoping to see you at the swim meet this
weekend" isn't news. It's personal email stuff, or chat room stuff. But you don't have to be anal
retentive about it, as Larry points out. Some people, eg me, no longer publish their real email
address in their posts, so the occasional personal message is appropriate in those cases. Larry does
include his email address, however.

martin