Folders ... ?

"elyob" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the
use of a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at
folders to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon and
Airnimal.

Quoted message said:

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme stuff,
so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile there and
back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

Quoted message said:

So, what's the benefits of each make?

Quoted message said:

p.s. saw my first a-bike yesterday. The lad looked really unsteady and was
passed in seconds by other cyclists. The thing looked really silly IMO.

Speed and ease of fold are important.

I've not yet anyone who regrets getting a Brompton. If you regret
getting a Brom, the second hand value is such you'll have lost little.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"elyob" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the
use of a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at
folders to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon
and
Airnimal.

Quoted message said:

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme
stuff,
so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile there and
back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

Quoted message said:

So, what's the benefits of each make?

Quoted message said:

p.s. saw my first a-bike yesterday. The lad looked really unsteady and
was
passed in seconds by other cyclists. The thing looked really silly IMO.

Speed and ease of fold are important.

I've not yet anyone who regrets getting a Brompton. If you regret
getting a Brom, the second hand value is such you'll have lost little.

A friend bought a Brommy and then "upgraded" to an Airnimal. He sometimes
avoids the train and cycles 15 miles to and 15 miles from work. He wanted
proper sized wheels. I'm not sure I'm fussed as I already have an all-round
and a race bike. Brompton I guess is high up the list.

Another friend has a Dahon that just splits in the middle. I don't really
rate it much.

Thanks for advice, will borrow the first friend's old Brommy for a couple of
weeks and see how I get on.

elyob twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use
of a train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at
folders to take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes,
Brompton, Dahon and Airnimal.

There's also Birdy.

Can't really offer an opinion on any of them though, since my total
experience with any of them amounts to about 1 minutes worth of Brompton
riding. Also, I'm lacking justification as to why I'd want one (well,
beyond the "Bromptons are cool!" aspect).
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Quoting elyob <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use of a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at folders to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon and
Airnimal.

The main advantage of the B over most makes is that the fold is very fast
and the folded package is very small. The ride, although adequate, is not
as good as makes that have prioritised that.

Therefore a B's best for multiple short hops - cycle a mile, fold, onto a
train, unfold, cycle a mile - and at the other end, Dahon make bikes for
things like fold once, fly, unfold, cycle for two weeks, fold...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Monday, August.

in message <[email hidden]>, elyob

(') said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use
of a train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at
folders to take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes,
Brompton, Dahon and Airnimal.

Airnimals, while nice, aren't suitable for this sort of thing. They're
more bikes that can fold than folding bikes. The good make you've missed
are the German made Birdies. Better ride than a Brom, not much bigger
when folded.

Quoted message said:

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme
stuff, so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile
there and back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

So, what's the benefits of each make?

Brompton, smallest, quickest fold for a bike you can really ride; parks
upright when folded, has useful half-fold which also leaves the bike
stably upright. Birdy, more designer, more expensive, very slightly
larger fold but many people say a much better ride. Dahon, lots of
models from very small fold to very good ride (and from reasonably cheap
to reasonably expensive).

The Brompton is certainly the ultimate bike-plus-train machine, but if I
was in your position I'd go for the Birdy Speed for lighter weight,
better ride quality and general style.
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/speed.shtml

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
,/| _.--''^``-...___.._.,;
/, \'. _-' ,--,,,--'''
{ \ `_-'' ' /
`;;' ; ; ;
._..--'' ._,,, _..' .;.'
(,_....----''' (,..--''

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting elyob <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use of
a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at folders
to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon
and
Airnimal.

The main advantage of the B over most makes is that the fold is very fast
and the folded package is very small. The ride, although adequate, is not
as good as makes that have prioritised that.

Therefore a B's best for multiple short hops - cycle a mile, fold, onto a
train, unfold, cycle a mile - and at the other end, Dahon make bikes for
things like fold once, fly, unfold, cycle for two weeks, fold...

Okay, so just say I decide Brompton. I've been looking at the range and am
reasonably confused. I'm not that keen on the look of the dual position
bars, but could put up with the mid-position bars. However, if the dual
positions are 'a must' recommend by yourselves, I'll consider it.

Which builds would you all go for? I'll rule out C-Type myself, so am trying
to work out the difference between equipment and frames etc. The general use
may not sound much, but if I ever started work in London I may up my mileage
to 10-15 miles a day. I also like to "give it some" and am quite a heavily
built guy.

Thanks

elyob wrote on 30/08/2006 20:50 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Which builds would you all go for? I'll rule out C-Type myself, so am trying
to work out the difference between equipment and frames etc. The general use
may not sound much, but if I ever started work in London I may up my mileage
to 10-15 miles a day. I also like to "give it some" and am quite a heavily
built guy.

I would go for what was the L3; three speed, standard M bars and get the
shopping basket or the S-bag for your work stuff.

As for choices of bike, its either Brompton or Birdy if you want to go
on the train, especially if its crowded. The Airnimal is not really
suitable - its too large and ungainly on a crowded train as is the Bike
Friday. Dahons are OK but again bigger when folded but nothing beats
the Brommie which can usually be slotted between the back to back seats.

You can find some useful comparisons and reviews at
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

elyob said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use of a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at folders to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon and
Airnimal.

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme stuff,
so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile there and
back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

So, what's the benefits of each make?

For a mile? I'd just walk.

Go and test-ride first. Lots of folks swear by the brompton, but I
found it uncomfortable (on the hands) and scary, and went for a
(slightly-larger) dahon instead. There are other options that may
be much better than either of those, though for such a short journey
the cost of a brommie or dahon seems high, let alone something
more classy.

Quoted message said:

p.s. saw my first a-bike yesterday. The lad looked really unsteady and was
passed in seconds by other cyclists. The thing looked really silly IMO.

Bit like I felt onna brompton, then.

--
Nick Kew

Application Development with Apache - the Apache Modules Book
http://www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0132409674

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

elyob said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use
of a train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at
folders to take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes,
Brompton, Dahon and Airnimal.

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme
stuff, so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile
there and back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

So, what's the benefits of each make?

For a mile? I'd just walk.

That isn't an option as far as the company have said. They categorically say
don't walk, they'll pick you up. It's country roads, where people probably
race down (from my experience driving there the other day (not racing,
mind!)).

Quoted message said:

Go and test-ride first. Lots of folks swear by the brompton, but I
found it uncomfortable (on the hands) and scary, and went for a
(slightly-larger) dahon instead. There are other options that may
be much better than either of those, though for such a short journey
the cost of a brommie or dahon seems high, let alone something
more classy.

50% off, and I get true kitchen pr0n 🙂 I'm not sure how many bikes are
ideal, but I'm certainly up to two, and dreaming of four ... 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

p.s. saw my first a-bike yesterday. The lad looked really unsteady and
was passed in seconds by other cyclists. The thing looked really silly
IMO.

Bit like I felt onna brompton, then.

Nah, this thing was really poor! I mean, the bloke looked like he was drunk!

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The Brompton is certainly the ultimate bike-plus-train machine, but if I
was in your position I'd go for the Birdy Speed for lighter weight,
better ride quality and general style.
http://www.kinetics.org.uk/html/speed.shtml

Mmmm .. that's a really nice bike. High on the list now, probably #1.

Why, oh why, have Brompton made their bikes names so unattractive?

Than I looked at the price .. wow ... £1340 !! Impressive, but .. wow ..
£670 to me ... the most expensive bike I'll ever have bought!

elyob wrote on 31/08/2006 00:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Than I looked at the price .. wow ... £1340 !! Impressive, but .. wow ..
£670 to me ... the most expensive bike I'll ever have bought!

If you are spending that much have a look at the Brompton with the full
titanium bling options.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

elyob said:

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Therefore a B's best for multiple short hops - cycle a mile, fold, onto a
train, unfold, cycle a mile - and at the other end, Dahon make bikes for
things like fold once, fly, unfold, cycle for two weeks, fold...

I don't think that's really fair on the Dahon, with the above more
applicable to Airnimals, Moultons etc. A Dahon is easy to fold, but it
doesn't fold that /much/, but it would be quite reasonable to fold it
every day and pop it in the under-stairs cupboard for routine storage.

Quoted message said:

Okay, so just say I decide Brompton. I've been looking at the range and am
reasonably confused. I'm not that keen on the look of the dual position
bars, but could put up with the mid-position bars. However, if the dual
positions are 'a must' recommend by yourselves, I'll consider it.

The P-bars have only been about for a year or two and the marque was
still very well respected before they existed, so certainly not a "must
have". I have the M bars (because they were all that there were when I
bought mine), but if I had to replace mine I'd get the same now I have a
choice: nice upright and comfy position without the extra fuss and
weight of the P bars, and I prefer not to crouch so that's the S bars out.

Quoted message said:

Which builds would you all go for? I'll rule out C-Type myself, so am trying
to work out the difference between equipment and frames etc. The general use
may not sound much, but if I ever started work in London I may up my mileage
to 10-15 miles a day. I also like to "give it some" and am quite a heavily
built guy.

If you want to Go For It for 15 miles I'd look a bit harder at a Birdy.
The bike is stiffer (especially the bars) plus you've full suspension
and slightly bigger wheels so the ride is quite a bit better if you're
putting in distance. The 2 primary catches are they don't fold as well
(both in terms of effort and final compactness) and they cost quite a
bit more. But I'd say you get what you pay for, and the gearing options
are considerably superior too.

Back to Broms, for frame you might want to specify Ti traingle and forks
if you've money to burn because they do make it lighter. For short hops
the 3 speed is fine (though get a gearing reduction) but for more
general cycling the 6 would be better, at the price of higher price and
something more to go wrong. I find the front pannier/bag is much
handier to use than a carrier, especially one like the Brom's where
panniers would be too low and you have to unload it before you can park
the back wheel under, so I consequently don't really rate a rear carrier
that much.
You know what we all think about hub dynamos here: if you're riding
after dark and you've got the cash, You Know It Makes Sense.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

elyob wrote on 31/08/2006 00:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Than I looked at the price .. wow ... £1340 !! Impressive, but .. wow
.. £670 to me ... the most expensive bike I'll ever have bought!

If you are spending that much have a look at the Brompton with the full
titanium bling options.

Full titanium bling Brom is still heavier than a Birdy Speed. Weight
makes a big difference when the bike is carrying you, but it makes an
even bigger difference when you're carrying the bike!

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

Response to Simon Brooke:

I'm not saying this would be suitable for the OP, even if it was
available; but the Pacific Cycles Reach range looks interesting -

http://tinyurl.com/hbs8b

--
Mark, UK
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist
the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

I've been riding my single gear Dahon since I got it for my birthday in
February and I must say that for distances short or long it's a great
ride. It folds in about 30 seconds which is fine for me as I don't
intend to break any records for pit stops!
I've got an Ortlieb Shuttle Bike case attached to the rear pannier rack
which I put the folded bike on top of and wheel like a trolley, it's a
little tricky at first but you can get used to it.
The Shuttle Bike case is big enough for a whole weekend away and
certainly big enough for office documents, a change of clothes and a
packed lunch.
I must admit I think my whole setup is overkill but it's so much fun
too. I've had loads of positive comments so it's nice to be different.
The nice thing about the single gear is that I can't go that fast and
as such don't sweat in clothes that I don't want soiled.
As a side note the Dahon is one that the company licenced so it's in
Land Rover livery.
http://www.mikistrange.com/photo/dahon.jpg
The case can be found here:
http://www.ortlieb.de/_prod.php?lang=en&produkt=shuttle-bike

in message <[email hidden]>, Mark McNeill

(') said:

Response to Simon Brooke:

I'm not saying this would be suitable for the OP, even if it was
available; but the Pacific Cycles Reach range looks interesting -

http://tinyurl.com/hbs8b

Thanks, hadn't seen that one before. Yes, it does look interesting. The
other one that looks very interesting is the Canadian GoBike:

http://www.gobikeonline.com/
http://www.long-john.com/ItalianGoBike.pdf

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.

Peter Clinch said:

I don't think that's really fair on the Dahon, with the above more
applicable to Airnimals, Moultons etc. A Dahon is easy to fold, but it
doesn't fold that /much/, but it would be quite reasonable to fold it
every day and pop it in the under-stairs cupboard for routine storage.

FWIW, my dahon goes comfortably into the luggage racks of a train,
or even a bus. And fold-unfold is very quick&easy. But the bars
move about a great deal, making a floppy ride.

Yes, it's never quite as small as a folded brommie or birdy.
It's got slightly bigger wheels.

Quoted message said:

You know what we all think about hub dynamos here: if you're riding
after dark and you've got the cash, You Know It Makes Sense.

I thought about that. But I only ride occasionally after dark,
and settled for LED lighting. It seems like sheer luxury after
the battery-and-bulb troubles of traditional lights, or the sick
joke of never-ready in my youth.

--
Nick Kew

Application Development with Apache - the Apache Modules Book
http://www.prenhallprofessional.com/title/0132409674

Peter Clinch said:

elyob wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Which builds would you all go for? I'll rule out C-Type myself, so am trying
to work out the difference between equipment and frames etc. The general use
may not sound much, but if I ever started work in London I may up my mileage
to 10-15 miles a day. I also like to "give it some" and am quite a heavily
built guy.

If you want to Go For It for 15 miles I'd look a bit harder at a Birdy.
The bike is stiffer (especially the bars) plus you've full suspension
and slightly bigger wheels so the ride is quite a bit better if you're
putting in distance. The 2 primary catches are they don't fold as well
(both in terms of effort and final compactness) and they cost quite a
bit more. But I'd say you get what you pay for, and the gearing options
are considerably superior too.

The Birdy fold is marginally less swift than the Brom but still pretty
quick as long as you don't have the expedition rack fitted. I've just
recently put one of those on mine which is a classic red (Mk II) and
find I have to loosen the seat clamp then give the saddle a wiggle to
unstick it before unclipping the rear catch to swing the rear end
under with my foot whilst grasping the top of the seat tube but being
careful of the rack as it folds. That sounds complicated doesn't it?
In effect once you have the hang of it it goes down only a little less
quickly than without the rack. In its folded state it will fit between
seat backs on inter-city style trains, but IIRC, not between those on
suburban trains.

The bars are certainly nice and stiff but make sure you know how to
adjust the clamp once it has worn a little; it can be rather
disconcerting riding down the road with the bars seemingly waving in
the wind. :-( There is an online version of the manual here
http://www.birdy.com.au/pdfs/Birdy%20Owners%20Manual%20v2.pdf
The clamp adjustment details are on p.38

The Birdy is certainly good for Going For It, especially if you fit
some bar ends. I've done hilly 80km rides in the North Downs and have
done some rough stuff on Scottish hill tracks. The standard 8-speed
gearing is a little high for Real Hills if you have a load on but
there is no shame in getting off and pushing for a bit. "It's a poor
mount that's not better than constant walking."

The suspension is tunable within limits. Stiffer and softer elastomers
are available for the back and a stiffer spring for the front. I'm in
the region of 95kg and theoretically at the upper end of the standard
elastomer.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Phil Cook said:

The Birdy fold is marginally less swift than the Brom but still pretty
quick as long as you don't have the expedition rack fitted.

Where the Brom really scores on folding over just about anything else is
that the first stage parks the bike into a stable platform that you
don't need to support at all. Very handy that, but it's not like a deal
breaker on the Birdy that it doesn't happen.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/