Folders ... ?

Nick Kew wrote:
[Dahon bars]

Quoted message said:

But the bars move about a great deal, making a floppy ride.

Probably no worse than a Brom's though. I'd already got out of the
habit of honking when I bought mine, and just as well: it's remarkably
poor for taking hills out of the saddle.

[hub dyanmo]

Quoted message said:

I thought about that. But I only ride occasionally after dark,
and settled for LED lighting.

For occasional use, a sound decision, I'd say. With a small wheel
you're mainly looking at the SONs for small wheels and after you've got
the wheel built and the generator and lamp(s) paid for it's a hefty
price for occasional use.

But if you are going to use it regularly (general commute use here means
you're almost bound to be in the dark at one or both ends of the day in
winter, for example) a dynohub is a Great Thing.

They can be retrofitted, of course, which might make more sense for the
OP as the ultimate use level seems a bit of an unknown at present, but
if Mr. Brown is paying half that's another reason to get it in at the start.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoted message said:

But if you are going to use it regularly (general commute use here means
you're almost bound to be in the dark at one or both ends of the day in
winter, for example) a dynohub is a Great Thing.

There aren't bottle cages on Broms are there? I've a cheapy but
powerful lighting system where the ni-cad is bottle shaped. Works
averagely well on my current hack machine (the electrics keep failing.
It was cheap) but I wouldn't know what to do with it on a folder.

I'm following this thread with some interest as I'm wondering whether
to do the same - I keep a pretty good bike at the station but there's a
fair time overhead wandering up the far end of platform 4, locking it
up (two locks) and taking off all the bits. 3 1/2 miles each way (bit
hilly) and I'm probably in Brom territory - but your basic 3 speed
steel bike is over £500.

In article <[email hidden]>, elyob
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Which builds would you all go for? I'll rule out C-Type myself, so am trying
to work out the difference between equipment and frames etc. The general use
may not sound much, but if I ever started work in London I may up my mileage
to 10-15 miles a day. I also like to "give it some" and am quite a heavily
built guy.

I've not regretted getting my Brompton in June or July 2001. I needed it
because of the absence of safe parking available when my employer moved
offices, and it was fine for my 4-5 mile central London commute.

I went for the most expensive the shop had when I walked in - a T3, with
rear rack and dynamo. As someone else has pointed out, my ride back from
the shop was a bit scary, but you get used to the handling very quickly.

It got daily use for the next year and a bit and then less frequent, but
still 2-3 times a week, after work moved again.

I use it less often now as I work from home, but it's great for local
trips to shops, cafes and library. However for the next three weeks I
will be commuting to Reigate in Surrey and plan to cycle to Victoria
station, about 3 miles away, take the train to Reigate and cycle the
final 600 yards or so. I think I'll be OK in office wear for these
distances.

--
congokid
Eating out in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Simon L said:

There aren't bottle cages on Broms are there? I've a cheapy but
powerful lighting system where the ni-cad is bottle shaped. Works
averagely well on my current hack machine (the electrics keep failing.
It was cheap) but I wouldn't know what to do with it on a folder.

No cages, but the standard front pannier has pockets on the back which
are idea for water bottles and also remote lamp batteries. I've used
mine for this, before I got a dynohub retro-fitted by Darth Ben.

Quoted message said:

I'm following this thread with some interest as I'm wondering whether
to do the same - I keep a pretty good bike at the station but there's a
fair time overhead wandering up the far end of platform 4, locking it
up (two locks) and taking off all the bits. 3 1/2 miles each way (bit
hilly) and I'm probably in Brom territory - but your basic 3 speed
steel bike is over £500.

And worth every penny IMHO! My not particularly keen cyclist neighbour
bought one and reckoned it had paid for itself in purely financial terms
within a year. Before I had mine I didn't see /that/ much use for a
folder, it quickly progressed to a Must Have item and I don't know how I
did without it.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Quoting elyob <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Okay, so just say I decide Brompton. I've been looking at the range and am
reasonably confused. I'm not that keen on the look of the dual position
bars, but could put up with the mid-position bars. However, if the dual
positions are 'a must' recommend by yourselves, I'll consider it.

I have just got a Brompton second-hand, so the spec was largely forced
upon me, but; I find the M-type bars perfectly satisfactory. The S-type
bars do imply the S-type bag which is tiny.

My machine does not have a rear rack. Since you can't fit any normal
pannier to it, the rear rack serves more as a frame for trundling the
semi-folded machine around on than actual luggage capacity. Instead I've
gone for the touring pannier (which is ginormous) and my existing
saddlebag; the saddle my B came with does not have useful saddlebag loops,
but I fitted a Brooks B-17 Narrow anyway. If I needed more luggage I would
buy a huge Carradice Longflap saddlebag.

I am 5'10" and needed the longer seatpost. I'm too tight to pay for the
telescopic.

I fitted a battery rear light mount - the Cateye TL-500 - on the chunk of
seatpost above the saddle clamp. It just peers out from under the saddle
and this is the only place it won't either obstruct the seatpost going
into the frame when folding or be obstructed by the saddlebag. However, my
main lighting is a Schmidt XS hub dynamo (fortunately, the existing spokes
are 150mm, just the right length for the new hub). The taillight for that
is a B&M D-Toplight Plus, which fits nicely in the gap under the bike when
folded, but there are no very good options for the headlight. The fork
crown mount means you have a restricted choice of lights (ie, short ones)
and can't operate the switch easily; I have a Lumotec Oval Plus on the
handlebars which has to be raised right up to clear the large pannier,
means wiring all over the bike, and fits uneasily into the folded package.
If that breaks I might try a fork crown mount to see which is less
painful.

The original owner should have got the gearing reduction, but I think the
standard gears are now what would have been that then, IYSWIM. The
six-speed seems like overkill.

I changed the stock brake pads for Kool Stop Salmons and the braking is
enormously improved. The only other change I am contemplating is fitting
Power Grips to the pedals. My B has the folding pedal, and an unfolding
one would stick into me all the time.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?
Today is Second Tuesday, August.

Quoting Simon L <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

There aren't bottle cages on Broms are there?

No, but I can't see why one couldn't clamp on the top of the spinal tube -
increasing the size of the folded package, but that's inevitable since
there's no bottle-shaped space in the folded package.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?
Today is Second Tuesday, August.

Simon Brooke wrote on 31/08/2006 13:14 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Thanks, hadn't seen that one before. Yes, it does look interesting. The
other one that looks very interesting is the Canadian GoBike:

http://www.gobikeonline.com/
http://www.long-john.com/ItalianGoBike.pdf

The one I've seen in the flesh looks like a Brompton or Birdy on
steroids but as I understand it they are almost unobtainable.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Peter Clinch wrote on 31/08/2006 14:49 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Phil Cook said:

The Birdy fold is marginally less swift than the Brom but still pretty
quick as long as you don't have the expedition rack fitted.

Where the Brom really scores on folding over just about anything else is
that the first stage parks the bike into a stable platform that you
don't need to support at all. Very handy that, but it's not like a deal
breaker on the Birdy that it doesn't happen.

If you travel by train the parking is a significant benefit while e.g
buying your tickets, picking up some food etc. Otherwise you end up
trying to prop it against something or do the other stuff one handed
while you hold it. IME.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

In article said:

I may be in a position where I'm changing jobs and will require the use of a
train and a mile or so cycle at the other end. So, I'm looking at folders to
take on the train. At the moment I know of three makes, Brompton, Dahon and
Airnimal.

I'm also thinking of asking this new company to do the cycle scheme stuff,
so price isn't too much of a bother. However, it's only a mile there and
back, so probably don't need the best one available 😉

So, what's the benefits of each make?

http://www.jasmine.org.uk/urcautofaq/jsp/Wiki?Folder might help.

Brompton - neatest fold. For regular use on a train with a short journey
at each end, almost certainly the best option. (Some people happily ride
them for hundreds of miles. Others don't like the handling (at least
initially, some say it grows on you).)

Dahon - widest range, but none as neat a fold as a Brompton (though
allegedly there is a comparable one going out soon). Some cheaper,
some (in most people's opinion) better suited to longer rides than a
Brompton (bigger wheels, wider gear range).

Airnimal - even more biased to being a good bike to ride and less of
a neat folded package. There might be a model cheaper than a Brompton
with all the titanium options, but generally more expensive.

Alan Braggins wrote:
<snip general folder characteristics>

Add in Bike Fridays, which are going down the same general route as the
Airnimal (primarily a bike, secondarily a folder, some disassembly will
make a neater package), though the smaller wheels make the basic fold
look a bit better (but that's not judged from 1st hand experience).
Phil Ligget uses a BF Pocket Rocket when he's off on the continent IIRC,
and Rob English and Sam Whittingham have used them suggesting they're
pretty serious on the speed potential!

And for those times when it's an occasional take-apart rather than a
regular fold you can pop Moultons in too, but you can't make them
smaller without tools.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch wrote on 01/09/2006 10:50 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Alan Braggins wrote:
<snip general folder characteristics>

Add in Bike Fridays, which are going down the same general route as the
Airnimal (primarily a bike, secondarily a folder, some disassembly will
make a neater package), though the smaller wheels make the basic fold
look a bit better (but that's not judged from 1st hand experience). Phil
Ligget uses a BF Pocket Rocket when he's off on the continent IIRC, and
Rob English and Sam Whittingham have used them suggesting they're pretty
serious on the speed potential!

And for those times when it's an occasional take-apart rather than a
regular fold you can pop Moultons in too, but you can't make them
smaller without tools.

I can speak from experience and the Bike Friday is an ungainly package
folded although better than the Airnimal which really needs the front
wheel out and there's nowhere to put it. My summary FWIW

Brompton: Commuter bike for taking on public transport and into your
destination as befits British usage

Dahon: Bike for folding up to store in limited space at home as befits
the Asian market

Bike Friday: Bike for folding up and transporting by car or plane as
befits the North American market

Tony

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

I can speak from experience and the Bike Friday is an ungainly package
folded although better than the Airnimal which really needs the front
wheel out and there's nowhere to put it. My summary FWIW

Brompton: Commuter bike for taking on public transport and into your
destination as befits British usage

Dahon: Bike for folding up to store in limited space at home as befits
the Asian market

Bike Friday: Bike for folding up and transporting by car or plane as
befits the North American market

Like you (IIRC) I run both a Brommie and a Bike Friday (Pocket Rocket), but
as with all folding bikes there will be some compromise - hence the need for
more than one ;-)

The Brompton is clearly the winner on folding, both speed and size of
package, but its ride just cannot compare with the BF, which is fast and
zippy (unlike its rider).
i agree the BF packs quite large and takes longer to fold and bag (about 4-5
mins) but it does fit easily into all trains I have travelled on - it is not
just a car and plane machine.
It also often gets let onto trains in an unfolded state - which helps a lot.

Most days I use one or the other, depending on the use at either end of the
journey. Most days I ride anywhere between 5 and 40 miles.
If the total cycling is more than 10 miles and I need a train journey at some
point, then it is usually the BF.

But all this has been repeated by many.

BTW I chose the BF in preference to a Birdy as I hate riding on a pogo sticks
with wheels.

Just my tuppence.

John B

In article said:

Alan Braggins wrote:
<snip general folder characteristics>

Add in Bike Fridays, which are going down the same general route as the
Airnimal (primarily a bike, secondarily a folder, some disassembly will
make a neater package)

Hmm, I thought Bike Friday was on the FAQ wiki page, but there's
just a couple of broken links (for "folding recumbent" and "folding
tandem"😉. And checking their web site now, the front page works,
but catalog gives me "The server encountered an internal error and
was unable to complete your request."

(There's also the "If you have the money, you can have a custom made
folder, but most folders are only made in a single frame size" generalization
on the FAQ page.
I gather Bike Fridays are generally sized to order? And the Airnimal
Chameleon has a couple of frame sizes? Any other exceptions?)

Alan Braggins said:

In article said:

Alan Braggins wrote:
<snip general folder characteristics>

Add in Bike Fridays, which are going down the same general route as the
Airnimal (primarily a bike, secondarily a folder, some disassembly will
make a neater package)

Hmm, I thought Bike Friday was on the FAQ wiki page, but there's
just a couple of broken links (for "folding recumbent" and "folding
tandem"😉. And checking their web site now, the front page works,
but catalog gives me "The server encountered an internal error and
was unable to complete your request."

There is a fair bit of info on the BF UK dealer's site (AVC) at:
http://www.foldingbikes.co.uk/bikefriday.htm

Quoted message said:

I gather Bike Fridays are generally sized to order?

I think they do a number of frame sizes and produce custom stems.
When I ordered mine they wanted the full sizing specs - which I measured from my
custom Roberts.

John B

John B wrote on 01/09/2006 15:07 +0100:

Quoted message said:

i agree the BF packs quite large and takes longer to fold and bag (about 4-5
mins) but it does fit easily into all trains I have travelled on - it is not
just a car and plane machine.

You've had more luck than me then. I have taken the BF on two trains.
One was the Oxenholme to Lancaster train at the end of the Cyclefest
Folder ride in 2004 (which Bike Friday's CEO joined). There it had to
be wedged (folded and bagged) onto two seats. Fortunately the train was
not crowded. Another journey on Virgin I just about managed to squeezed
it bagged and folded onto the luggage rack in the middle of the carriage
although it stuck out into the corridor some way.

The Brompton OTOH goes on the trains into and out of London several
times a week.

However I have ridden centuries on the BF but would not even start to
contemplate it on the Brommie although I know people do.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

John B wrote on 01/09/2006 17:40 +0100:

Quoted message said:

I think they do a number of frame sizes and produce custom stems.
When I ordered mine they wanted the full sizing specs - which I
measured from my custom Roberts.

I think its more than that. I ordered mine direct from BF in the pre
AVC dealership days and had a lengthy conversation with them about
sizing. For example I wanted a frame that could fit a suspension seat
post so they made the seat mast a little shorter than usual to
accommodate it. The geometry came out exactly as I specified which
would not have been possible for a standard frame size - reach for
example would not have been spot on if they had used the nearest
standard frame size.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

However I have ridden centuries on the BF but would not even start to
contemplate it on the Brommie although I know people do.

I did the Gridiron (100km round New Forest cattlegrids) on my Brompton
in 1996...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Den 2006-08-31 10:14:58 skrev Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Tony Raven

(') said:

elyob wrote on 31/08/2006 00:32 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Than I looked at the price .. wow ... £1340 !! Impressive, but .. wow
.. £670 to me ... the most expensive bike I'll ever have bought!

If you are spending that much have a look at the Brompton with the full
titanium bling options.

Full titanium bling Brom is still heavier than a Birdy Speed. Weight
makes a big difference when the bike is carrying you, but it makes an
even bigger difference when you're carrying the bike!

The titanium Brompton S2LX is 9,5kg while the Birdy Speed is 10,4kg. The
Brompton only has two speeds though, the Birdy has nine. I think a
six-speed Brompton, S6LX, would still be lighter but I'm not sure.

Erik Sandblom
--
Oil is for sissies

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote on 01/09/2006 18:47 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

However I have ridden centuries on the BF but would not even start to
contemplate it on the Brommie although I know people do.

I did the Gridiron (100km round New Forest cattlegrids) on my Brompton
in 1996...

I once made the mistake of cycling over a New Forest cattlegrid on my
Brompton. After six months of intensive dental work most of my teeth
are re-secure in their sockets ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Helen Deborah Vecht wrote on 01/09/2006 18:47 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

However I have ridden centuries on the BF but would not even start to
contemplate it on the Brommie although I know people do.

I did the Gridiron (100km round New Forest cattlegrids) on my Brompton
in 1996...

Quoted message said:

I once made the mistake of cycling over a New Forest cattlegrid on my
Brompton. After six months of intensive dental work most of my teeth
are re-secure in their sockets ;-)

I must have had a better dentist.

The Gridiron brought him no more work...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.