OS vs. 26.0mm handlebars?

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
Why?

Are OS handlebars the new standard? Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

I think 26.0mm bars will be around for awhile. Ritchey has some nice
alum ones and Rivendell will probably never go to OS. In fact, they
will soon be coming out with a "lightweight" version of their vaulted
Noodle bar, called ironically, the Soba bar. Supposedly it will weigh
in "under 300grams." For a Riv product, that's light.

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
Why?

Are OS handlebars the new standard? Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

I have mixed feelings but my evaluation is that 26.0 will slowly go
away at about the same pace as 25.4 steering tubes (on forks). I would
not allow that to effect my choice when buying new though. I think that
there will be a minimal selection for some years to come still and
fortunately for me, the bar and stem I have selected were both
available in 26.0. If those 2 were only available in OS, I would choose
them anyway. My point being that I feel that the OS specification is a
gimmick and it does not influence my decision either way. I have used
the Deda 215 since it came out because of the bend and the excellent
weight and rigidity properties (triple butted with the thickest portion
in the center to accomplish the same thing the OS bars do). I have used
the Ritchey WCS stem for almost as long. Compared to that stem, there
are not a lot of choices in stems that are so strong, light and
durable. If I had a chance to get some really dramatically superior bar
and stem like the latest ZIPP bar or a similar bar that was as light
and had a superior (ergonomically) shaped design that was only
available in 31.6 them I would switch for that reason but I would never
change a bar and stem in order to change to the OS spec as the sole
reason.

Speaking of Ritchey, he has to be one of the best design engineers in
the industry. He keeps coming out will superior and cost effective
components, some of which really are the very best available designs.

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?

os.

Quoted message said:

Why?

better fatigue resistance.

Quoted message said:

Are OS handlebars the new standard?

effectively, yes.

Quoted message said:

Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

they'll be around for a while, but i'd still go os. in addition to the
reasons above, they are marginally stiffer, and in handlebars, that's a
good place for a bike to be stiff.

jim beam said:

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?

os.

Quoted message said:

Why?

better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard (which is a good thing, in and of itself). The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

and...

2) It seems like if you were to increase the weight of the 26.0mm
clamp bar and stem by the same amount the 31.8mm bars gain, you'd end
up with a bar that's probably at least as "real-world reliable and
strong" as the 31.8mm bar.

I also seem to remember some posts about 31.8mm bars failiing at the
taper, but I could be mis-remembering.

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

jim beam said:

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?

os.

Quoted message said:

Why?

better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard

yes and no. if bars fail, it's usually at the stress riser on the
clamp. a larger diameter bar at this point helps alleviate that
substantially.

Quoted message said:

(which is a good thing, in and of itself).

yes

Quoted message said:

The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

stem clamps have gotten a lot more intelligently designed recently. in
the old days, the clamp edges were sharp. today, they're slightly
rounded. that reduces the riser. o/s bars reduces those effects still
further.

Quoted message said:

and...

2) It seems like if you were to increase the weight of the 26.0mm
clamp bar and stem by the same amount the 31.8mm bars gain, you'd end
up with a bar that's probably at least as "real-world reliable and
strong" as the 31.8mm bar.

the o/s bar should still be superior in fatigue.

Quoted message said:

I also seem to remember some posts about 31.8mm bars failiing at the
taper, but I could be mis-remembering.

quite possibly, but that'll be a manufacturing problem, not an issue
with the "bigger is better" design philosophy.

Quoted message said:

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
Why?

Are OS handlebars the new standard? Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

Still can find 25.4 hbars...nothing added by 31.8mm particularly for
aluminum. Easier to get a computer on it as well...

jim beam said:

Mark Hickey said:

jim beam said:

damyth wrote:
> If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
> you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
os.

> Why?
better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard

yes and no. if bars fail, it's usually at the stress riser on the
clamp. a larger diameter bar at this point helps alleviate that
substantially.

Quoted message said:

(which is a good thing, in and of itself).

yes

Quoted message said:

The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

stem clamps have gotten a lot more intelligently designed recently. in
the old days, the clamp edges were sharp. today, they're slightly
rounded. that reduces the riser. o/s bars reduces those effects still
further.

Quoted message said:

and...

2) It seems like if you were to increase the weight of the 26.0mm
clamp bar and stem by the same amount the 31.8mm bars gain, you'd end
up with a bar that's probably at least as "real-world reliable and
strong" as the 31.8mm bar.

the o/s bar should still be superior in fatigue.

Quoted message said:

I also seem to remember some posts about 31.8mm bars failiing at the
taper, but I could be mis-remembering.

quite possibly, but that'll be a manufacturing problem, not an issue
with the "bigger is better" design philosophy.

Quoted message said:

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

JRA, how many handlebars have you seen break...26mm, no face plate
stem?? I have seen zero, in 21 years of wrenching.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jim beam said:

Mark Hickey wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

stem clamps have gotten a lot more intelligently designed recently. in
the old days, the clamp edges were sharp. today, they're slightly
rounded. that reduces the riser. o/s bars reduces those effects still
further.<snip>

Quoted message said:

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

JRA, how many handlebars have you seen break...26mm, no face plate
stem?? I have seen zero, in 21 years of wrenching.

I can't think of one either (though my base is a lot smaller than
yours). And when you consider how many stupidlight 26.0mm clamp bars
have been sold over the last 20 years, and how many of them get
changed regularly (not many), I suspect that the "problem" we're
solving here is pretty darned minute.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jim beam said:

Mark Hickey said:

jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:

> damyth wrote:
>> If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
>> you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
> os.
>
>> Why?
> better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard

yes and no. if bars fail, it's usually at the stress riser on the
clamp. a larger diameter bar at this point helps alleviate that
substantially.

Quoted message said:

(which is a good thing, in and of itself).

yes

Quoted message said:

The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

stem clamps have gotten a lot more intelligently designed recently. in
the old days, the clamp edges were sharp. today, they're slightly
rounded. that reduces the riser. o/s bars reduces those effects still
further.

Quoted message said:

and...

2) It seems like if you were to increase the weight of the 26.0mm
clamp bar and stem by the same amount the 31.8mm bars gain, you'd end
up with a bar that's probably at least as "real-world reliable and
strong" as the 31.8mm bar.

the o/s bar should still be superior in fatigue.

Quoted message said:

I also seem to remember some posts about 31.8mm bars failiing at the
taper, but I could be mis-remembering.

quite possibly, but that'll be a manufacturing problem, not an issue
with the "bigger is better" design philosophy.

Quoted message said:

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

JRA, how many handlebars have you seen break...26mm, no face plate
stem?? I have seen zero, in 21 years of wrenching.

I have only seen carbon bars break in the 20 + years of riding and
maintaining my equipment.
I feel it is just something else to encourage people to "upgrade"

In article <[email hidden]>,

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
Why?

I'd choose the 26.0 because I like a deep drop traditionally shaped Maes
bend. I dislike "ergo" bars with short reach and shallow drops.

Quoted message said:

Are OS handlebars the new standard? Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

Yes and yes.

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

jim beam said:

Mark Hickey said:

jim beam <[email hidden]> wrote:

> damyth wrote:
>> If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
>> you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
> os.
>
>> Why?
> better fatigue resistance.
I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard

yes and no. if bars fail, it's usually at the stress riser on the
clamp. a larger diameter bar at this point helps alleviate that
substantially.

Quoted message said:

(which is a good thing, in and of itself).

yes

Quoted message said:

The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

1) It's not like there was an epidemic of 26.0mm clamp bars failing

stem clamps have gotten a lot more intelligently designed recently. in
the old days, the clamp edges were sharp. today, they're slightly
rounded. that reduces the riser. o/s bars reduces those effects still
further.

Quoted message said:

and...

2) It seems like if you were to increase the weight of the 26.0mm
clamp bar and stem by the same amount the 31.8mm bars gain, you'd end
up with a bar that's probably at least as "real-world reliable and
strong" as the 31.8mm bar.

the o/s bar should still be superior in fatigue.

Quoted message said:

I also seem to remember some posts about 31.8mm bars failiing at the
taper, but I could be mis-remembering.

quite possibly, but that'll be a manufacturing problem, not an issue
with the "bigger is better" design philosophy.

Quoted message said:

No real dog in this hunt - I'll happily continue to sell quality bars
and stems of both specs, and keep my nose in the wind for problems.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

JRA, how many handlebars have you seen break...26mm, no face plate
stem?? I have seen zero, in 21 years of wrenching.

i've had a bar come apart in my hands sprinting. it was fatigued at the
clamp.

On 24 Aug 2006 06:08:06 -0700, "Qui si parla Campagnolo"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip everyone else]

Quoted message said:

JRA, how many handlebars have you seen break...26mm, no face plate
stem?? I have seen zero, in 21 years of wrenching.

Dear Peter,

The cowhorn handlebar on my beloved blue 5-speed Schwinn broke over 30
years ago.

Surprisingly, no crash.

No idea if the handlbar was aluminum or how it was attached.

Apparently, the handlebar wasn't designed to withstand the yanking
involved in practicing wheelies out of trackstands.

I suspect that doesn't quite count as just riding around, though
that's what just riding around meant when I was a teenager.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today,

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?

os.

Quoted message said:

Why?

better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard (which is a good thing, in and of itself). The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Fatigue resistance is a function of the material the bars are made from
rather than the design. It's related to the number of cycles of
deformation (bending or flexing) a particular material undergoes before
fatigue cracks begin to appear.

Stress risers and other failure modes are separate issues.

Chas.

* * Chas said:

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

damyth wrote:

>If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today,

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?

os.

>Why?

better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard (which is a good thing, in and of itself). The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

<snip>

Fatigue resistance is a function of the material the bars are made from
rather than the design. It's related to the number of cycles of
deformation (bending or flexing) a particular material undergoes before
fatigue cracks begin to appear.

Stress risers and other failure modes are separate issues.

Huh...???

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

* * Chas said:

"Mark Hickey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

damyth wrote:
> If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today,

would

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
os.

> Why?
better fatigue resistance.

I'm not so sure - seems to me that it just moves the problem area
further outboard (which is a good thing, in and of itself). The two
things that have made me wonder about the "advantage"....

<snip>
Fatigue resistance is a function of the material the bars are made from
rather than the design.

that's true in some respects, but not all. good design can allow a
cheesy material to last longer than a high quality material subject to
bad design. much better to go for design first, material second.
unfortunately, most modern engineering students don't seem to be taught
that way any more. metallurgists regularly bump up against the problem
of the engineer calling saying "i need a recommendation for a better
material for my widget - it keeps breaking. i've tried material x and
material y, etc., but they're not good enough. what else can i use?"
then there comes the explanation that all the previously tried materials
would be perfectly adequate if the design was changed slightly.

Quoted message said:

It's related to the number of cycles of
deformation (bending or flexing) a particular material undergoes before
fatigue cracks begin to appear.

Stress risers and other failure modes are separate issues.

stress risers can be and often are part of design.

Shiner said:

I have only seen carbon bars break in the 20 + years of riding and
maintaining my equipment.
I feel it is just something else to encourage people to "upgrade"

I agree with the above in part. Carbon is an excellent material IF you
never damage it. That is, if you never crash or cause any way for the
carbon to be damaged, then it should be "as strong, if not stronger"
than the latest superlight weight aluminum bars.

I agree that carbon bars are also a great marketing tool to get people
to upgrade. If you look at the weights of carbon bars, whether OS or
26.0mm, its not much, if any, lighter than the latest superlight weight
aluminum bars.

As for carbon stem, forgetaboutit! Haven't seen anything positve and
again, the weight difference are negligble.

Shiner said:

I have only seen carbon bars break in the 20 + years of riding and
maintaining my equipment.
I feel it is just something else to encourage people to "upgrade"

I agree with the above in part. Carbon is an excellent material IF you
never damage it. That is, if you never crash or cause any way for the
carbon to be damaged, then it should be "as strong, if not stronger"
than the latest superlight weight aluminum bars.

I agree that carbon bars are also a great marketing tool to get people
to upgrade. If you look at the weights of carbon bars, whether OS or
26.0mm, its not much, if any, lighter than the latest superlight weight
aluminum bars.

As for carbon stem, forgetaboutit! Haven't seen anything positve and
again, the weight difference are negligble.

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

damyth said:

If you had to buy a new (non-carbon) handlebar and stem today, would
you choose an OS handlebar or a more conventional 26.0mm handlebar?
Why?

I'd choose the 26.0 because I like a deep drop traditionally shaped Maes
bend. I dislike "ergo" bars with short reach and shallow drops.

The reason I chose 26.0 bars for my recent bikes is because my very
favorite bars, TTT Morphe 46 cm, come in 26.0. Long reach, short drop,
anatomic bend. Wonderfully comfortable bars. I never see people with
deep drop bars ever riding in the drops.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are OS handlebars the new standard? Or can we expect to see 26.0mm
handlebars for quite some time?

Yes and yes.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

The reason I chose 26.0 bars for my recent bikes is because my very
favorite bars, TTT Morphe 46 cm, come in 26.0. Long reach, short drop,
anatomic bend. Wonderfully comfortable bars. I never see people with
deep drop bars ever riding in the drops.

You are not watching.

It's easy to ride deep drops. Raise the bar 10 mm if needs
be. Oh, but wait, now riding the integrated brake-shifter
is too high. Damn! Another great idea shot down.

Actually I ride 165 mm drops comfortably for distance. The
tops are at a modest 50 mm below the saddle. No integrated
brake-shifters.

--
Michael Press