Polite wrong-way riders

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Saw another one tonight, and I can confirm that this one is reformed!

I was riding back home on my usual loop, around sunset (8:00PM),
clipping along on the last few blocks towards the house. Ahead of me,
against the setting sun, I caught sight of a cyclist coming at me,
hugging the curb line [1]. As I got to about 50 ft or so out, I let
out a firm "Ride to the right, please," complete with a point to the
other side of the road. Since I was closing fast, she held her line
[2], and as we got to about 10 ft apart, she responded: "Thanks!". As
I passed her, I returned a hearty "Thank /you/!", and noticed in my
mirror that she did indeed cross over to the correct side of the
road. Huzzah!

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be. (I usually choose that anyway, of course, in order to stay out
of the door zone; but it seems like curious logic and inconsiderate
behavior.)

Quoted message said:

[1] I mean, /seriously/ hugging it, for dear life.

[2] A smart move; she was sans helmet, and I'd would have been one
heck of a head-on collision.

Oh-oh. The 'h' word. <eg>

Sorni

"Bill Sornson" wrote: Oh-oh. The 'h' word. <eg>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Hugging?" "Helmet?" "Heck?" "Head-on?"

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Since I was closing fast, she held her line
[2], and as we got to about 10 ft apart, she responded: "Thanks!". As
I passed her, I returned a hearty "Thank /you/!", and noticed in my
mirror that she did indeed cross over to the correct side of the
road. Huzzah!

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be.

I was already pretty far out in my lane, and closing fast, so I would
have considered it rude and unexpected if she'd veered in front of me to
change lanes. Predictability beats correctness, in this case.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

[2] A smart move; she was sans helmet, and I'd would have been one
heck of a head-on collision.

Oh-oh. The 'h' word. <eg>

Yeah, yeah. I wear a helmet, but I don't get preachy about it to folks
who don't. I just don't want to think what could have happened had her
skull hit pavement (or metal).

For the record, I'm against mandatory bicycle helmet laws. I /choose/ to
wear my helmet, and folks should be able to choose not to. The Dutch do
seem to get by just fine.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be. (I usually choose that anyway, of course, in order to stay
out of the door zone; but it seems like curious logic and inconsiderate
behavior.)

It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of mind allow, to
actually /stop/ and plant myself diagonally so that the wrong-way rider must
veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often creates opportunities for
interesting dialogue.

RichC

Rich Clark said:

Quoted message said:

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they
stay to their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though
they're "facing" traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into
the lane more than I'd normally be. (I usually choose that anyway,
of course, in order to stay out of the door zone; but it seems like
curious logic and inconsiderate behavior.)

Quoted message said:

It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of mind allow, to
actually "stop" and plant myself diagonally so that the wrong-way
rider must veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often creates
opportunities for interesting dialogue.

I'm surprised what self righteous zealots raise their heads here. I
though that was a traffic style peculiar to Germany where "Wer hat
Recht" is a constant proclivity.

My response to such wrong-way riders is to keep left so the opposing
rider is NOT exposed to double jeopardy as the above method does with
malice. After all, this is a fellow citizen with no evil intent.

Interestingly in Santa Cruz CA, the bicycle lane along the beach
boardwalk was painted with arrows and center stripe for left hand
bicycle traffic for exactly the reason I mention above. More recently
some city engineer installed a broad low rubber curb between car and
bicycle traffic that in itself is a hazard while reorienting the
directional arrows. We all lost on that one. Since the street has
little bicycle traffic, cars lost a large part of road and bicyclists,
when present, are channeled in a narrower lane with a hazardous but
benign appearing boundary curb. There have been spills already.

The righteous win out again! "Rechthaberei" a constant battle in Germany.
"dogmatism"
--
Jobst Brandt

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

More recently
some city engineer installed a broad low rubber curb between car and
bicycle traffic that in itself is a hazard while reorienting the
directional arrows. We all lost on that one. Since the street has
little bicycle traffic, cars lost a large part of road and bicyclists,
when present, are channeled in a narrower lane with a hazardous but
benign appearing boundary curb. There have been spills already.

This is reminiscent of my own misgivings about _raised_ bike lanes.

A few years ago the engineering dep't of City of Vancouver (BC)
experimented with what they called "chicanes" as a traffic calming
measure. They were just low barriers similar to the curb you
describe, channeling traffic through an S curve across the width
of the traffic-calmed street. The idea was eventually scrapped.

I don't think cyclists really need a lot of raised features
on the pavement. Especially if they rise (or drop, as in the
case of raised bike lanes) at steep angles.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Rich Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be. (I usually choose that anyway, of course, in order to stay
out of the door zone; but it seems like curious logic and inconsiderate
behavior.)

It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of mind allow, to
actually /stop/ and plant myself diagonally so that the wrong-way rider
must veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often creates opportunities
for interesting dialogue.

RichC

I prefer to live and let live.
You may regret that one day when you do it to an ex-convict with violent
tendencies.
I am still amazed by how many people actually beleive it is the law to ride
on the wrong side of the road and that you are wrong for riding with the
traffic flow.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

"Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be. (I usually choose that anyway, of course, in order to stay
out of the door zone; but it seems like curious logic and inconsiderate
behavior.)

It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of mind allow, to
actually /stop/ and plant myself diagonally so that the wrong-way rider must
veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often creates opportunities for
interesting dialogue.

That's taking things too far, IMO. If they don't get the hint from a
simple verbal cue, I consider them beyond remediation. I'm also mindful
as to exactly who I confront about this; if I don't have a good gut
feeling about the other rider, I'll let it slide.

Mostly, I see kids doing it around here. That's an easy choice for me.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Quoted message said:

My response to such wrong-way riders is to keep left so the opposing
rider is NOT exposed to double jeopardy as the above method does with
malice. After all, this is a fellow citizen with no evil intent.

Absolutely. Many people were taught to ride against traffic, or were at
least taught to walk/jog against traffic and transfer that idea to
cycling. I often encounter joggers running towards me, I just move out
to the left and pass peacefully, I don't see the need to behave
differently especially if the wrong-way rider is going slowly (which
they usually are).

Leo Lichtman wrote:
:: "Bill Sornson" wrote: Oh-oh. The 'h' word. <eg>
:: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:: "Hugging?" "Helmet?" "Heck?" "Head-on?"

I was wondering the same thing!

Rich Clark wrote:
:: "Bill Sornson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
:: news:[email hidden]...
::
::: What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they
::: stay to their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though
::: they're /facing/ traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into
::: the lane more than I'd normally be. (I usually choose that anyway,
::: of course, in order to stay out of the door zone; but it seems like
::: curious logic and inconsiderate behavior.)
::
:: It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of mind allow, to
:: actually /stop/ and plant myself diagonally so that the wrong-way
:: rider must veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often creates
:: opportunities for interesting dialogue.
::
:: RichC

Perhaps even more than interesting dialogue, too!

[email hidden] wrote:
(snip)

Quoted message said:

some city engineer installed a broad low rubber curb between car and
bicycle traffic that in itself is a hazard while reorienting the
directional arrows. We all lost on that one. Since the street has
little bicycle traffic, cars lost a large part of road and bicyclists,
when present, are channeled in a narrower lane with a hazardous but
benign appearing boundary curb. There have been spills already.

The righteous win out again! "Rechthaberei" a constant battle in Germany.
"dogmatism"
--
Jobst Brandt

OMG ... yet another curb. Patently Bad. Somebody doesn't know a d___ed thing.

The most potentially life-threatening crash I personally experienced was
precipitated by front tire touching a curb. Bike's sideways drift was abruptly
arrested; my body's wasn't. I wound up flat in the street, struggling with the
bike that was on top of me and very much distracted by the sound of approaching
vehicles.

--
Michael

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Saw another one tonight, and I can confirm that this one is reformed!

I was riding back home on my usual loop, around sunset (8:00PM),
clipping along on the last few blocks towards the house. Ahead of me,
against the setting sun, I caught sight of a cyclist coming at me,
hugging the curb line [1]. As I got to about 50 ft or so out, I let out
a firm "Ride to the right, please," complete with a point to the other
side of the road. Since I was closing fast, she held her line [2], and
as we got to about 10 ft apart, she responded: "Thanks!". As I passed
her, I returned a hearty "Thank /you/!", and noticed in my mirror that
she did indeed cross over to the correct side of the road. Huzzah!

[1] I mean, /seriously/ hugging it, for dear life.

[2] A smart move; she was sans helmet, and I'd would have been one heck
of a head-on collision.

Well this may or may not fit in with this topic, but out of all the
people I see while riding, whether riding to the right, or coming
straight at me, the 'older' than me folks seem to the nicest people.

The most rude / inpolite people are the casual 20 somethings.

Of course there are exceptions.

Just my opinions of course.

Ken
--
Messengers and mountain bikers share a common chromosome. ~James Bethea

In article <[email hidden]>, ken@up-
yours-spammer.net says...

Quoted message said:

Well this may or may not fit in with this topic, but out of all the
people I see while riding, whether riding to the right, or coming
straight at me, the 'older' than me folks seem to the nicest people.

Actually, it fits the story well; my polite wrong-way'er was in her late
40s or early 50s, by my estimation.

Quoted message said:

The most rude / inpolite people are the casual 20 somethings.

And teenagers. Getting that first driver's license seems to damage that
part of the brain that controls respect of those without cars.

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

"Rich Clark"wrote: It is my practice, when circumstances and my state of
mind allow, to actually /stop/ and plant myself diagonally so that the
wrong-way rider must veer into the oncoming traffic lane. This often
creates opportunities for interesting dialogue.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
If you were sitting across the table in a negotiating session, would you
would start by pouring a pitcher of water on your adversary. There are
better ways to win someone over. If you can't do it without antagonizing,
you probably can't do it at all. Meeting someone head-on in the gutter may
not be a time for a meaningful discussion.

Quoted message said:

I'm surprised what self righteous zealots raise their heads here. I
though that was a traffic style peculiar to Germany where "Wer hat
Recht" is a constant proclivity.

My response to such wrong-way riders is to keep left so the opposing
rider is NOT exposed to double jeopardy as the above method does with
malice. After all, this is a fellow citizen with no evil intent.

Lack of evil intent does not negate dangerous behavior. Such wrong way
riders at night have nearly taken me out, and here there are many high
speed hills.

Your behavior condones, rather than discourages, the practice of ww riding.

Wayne

Bill Sornson said:

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

Saw another one tonight, and I can confirm that this one is reformed!

I was riding back home on my usual loop, around sunset (8:00PM),
clipping along on the last few blocks towards the house. Ahead of me,
against the setting sun, I caught sight of a cyclist coming at me,
hugging the curb line [1]. As I got to about 50 ft or so out, I let
out a firm "Ride to the right, please," complete with a point to the
other side of the road. Since I was closing fast, she held her line
[2], and as we got to about 10 ft apart, she responded: "Thanks!". As
I passed her, I returned a hearty "Thank /you/!", and noticed in my
mirror that she did indeed cross over to the correct side of the
road. Huzzah!

What I've noticed about almost every wrong-way rider is that they stay to
their left even in passing situations. IOW, even though they're /facing/
traffic, I'm the one who ends up "forced" out into the lane more than I'd
normally be. (I usually choose that anyway, of course, in order to stay out
of the door zone; but it seems like curious logic and inconsiderate
behavior.)

I've adopted the approach of moving right and, if necessary, stopping
to force them out to my left. I do make an exception for little kids.

John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Wayne Pein wrote:
:: [email hidden] wrote:
::
::: I'm surprised what self righteous zealots raise their heads here. I
::: though that was a traffic style peculiar to Germany where "Wer hat
::: Recht" is a constant proclivity.
:::
::: My response to such wrong-way riders is to keep left so the opposing
::: rider is NOT exposed to double jeopardy as the above method does
::: with malice. After all, this is a fellow citizen with no evil
::: intent.
:::
::
:: Lack of evil intent does not negate dangerous behavior. Such wrong
:: way riders at night have nearly taken me out, and here there are
:: many high speed hills.
::
:: Your behavior condones, rather than discourages, the practice of ww
:: riding.

I disagree. Riding on the wrong side of the road condones WW riding.
Riding on the right side of the road encourgages RW riding. Being rude is
just being rude.

Roger Zoul said:

::
:: Your behavior condones, rather than discourages, the practice of ww
:: riding.

I disagree. Riding on the wrong side of the road condones WW riding.
Riding on the right side of the road encourgages RW riding. Being rude is
just being rude.

Not correcting or otherwise actively trying to change wrong behavior is
being complicit in that wrong behavior. Correct way riding may be
setting the appropriate example, but haven't all wrong way riders seen
somebody riding correctly before? One would think that if setting a good
example were enough there would be no wrong way riding. One need not be
rude to convey the message. It is dangerous to oneself and to others to
ride the wrong way, so it should be actively discouraged. "Shielding" a
wrong way rider from further harm from motor traffic is actively
condoning wrong way riding.

Wayne