Going carless

paul said:

Hi all. I'm a long time lurker and occasional poster. I'm a darksider by inclination, but
also have 'dale for playing in the dirt. Just thought I'd mention that as way of intro 🙂

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going carless. Can the panel
comment on the practicalities or such for a family with teenagers. We live in a country
town (woodbridge) and I work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away) and she
is less inclined to ride her bike.

Without having a commitment on both sides it becomes hard to do. She
will be the one most put out if she has to forgo what she is used to
for transport etc.

You could start by working out all the costs to run the car vs
alternatives, investigate other forms of transport (possibly a moped or
electric bike) and so on. The teens will just ahve to learn to live
with it - good for them to learn how to find and use appropriate
resources.

...d

paul said:

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going carless. Can the panel
comment on the practicalities or such for a family with teenagers. We live in a country
town (woodbridge) and I work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away) and she
is less inclined to ride her bike.

Depends not only on Who and Where, but What you use the car for. Roos
and I don't use our car /much/, but when we do it will quite possibly be
to drive a couple of 16' kayaks somewhere remote at short notice. At
the time of writing I can't see a good way to do that without a car, so
we keep a car.

So make a list of hwat you use it for, and work out to what extent there
are alternatives.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

paul said:

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going carless. Can the panel
comment on the practicalities or such for a family with teenagers. We live in a country
town (woodbridge) and I work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away) and s

I presume you run only one car at present or the obvious step would be
to go to only one car.

For a one car family the thing would be to try and reduce as much car
use as possible. This has the benefit of trying the carfree lifestyle
without incurring the costs that would be involved in selling the car
then having to replace it if things did't work out..
A thought is that if running a newish car then depreciation is a
major cost. But if most journeys are by cycle then running an older car
is more feasiible as it is not so much of a problem if the car is off
the road for a few days.
For me the main practical consideration if going carless would be
how close I was to my food shopping as I wouldn't fancy lugging
groceries for 5 and distance on a regular basis. Not that it couldn't
be done. There are cycle trailers available which could carry the load.
Fo you the main question is your wife willing o commute 8 miles on a
bike or is the public transport good enough to replace the car for this
commute if she is not going to cycle.
Iain.

David Martin said:

Without having a commitment on both sides it becomes hard to do. She
will be the one most put out if she has to forgo what she is used to
for transport etc.

Quoted message said:

You could start by working out all the costs to run the car vs
alternatives, investigate other forms of transport (possibly a moped or
electric bike) and so on. The teens will just ahve to learn to live
with it - good for them to learn how to find and use appropriate
resources.

And when you've worked out all the costs you can see that you can spend
some of what you save on making life easier. My carless parents would
occasionally take a taxi if they had to go somewhere early or remote and
busses weren't available or not convenient.

Roos

paul said:

Hi all. I'm a long time lurker and occasional poster. I'm a darksider by inclination, but
also have 'dale for playing in the dirt. Just thought I'd mention that as way of intro 🙂

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going carless. Can the panel
comment on the practicalities or such for a family with teenagers. We live in a country
town (woodbridge) and I work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away) and she
is less inclined to ride her bike.

This is excellent to hear.
We became car-free about 17 years ago when my wife's car broke down, and we've never looked
back.

We too live in a semi-rural location and have 3 teenagers (+ 1 younger), all of whom are at
different schools - 8 miles east, 12 miles west, 12 miles south and 300 metres away.

The sums were done, and whilst we found that we would be several thousand pounds better off,
the best effect was the reduction in stresses associated with car-ownership. Our lifestyle
has improved enormously and our children have benefitted by growing up as balanced
independent youngsters. My eldest daughter, now 18 and looking to go to Uni next year has no
intentions of falling into the car-trap, and all of them are quite happy to travel around
under their own steam.

The increasing anti-social aspects of private motoring are now something that we are pleased
not to be a part of. Car dependency is a scourge of today's society from which many people
seem unable or unwilling to escape. Anyone who drives becomes part of the problem of
creating health problems, polluting our environment and increasing congestion. Even cutting
down a little helps but regretably few do so.

Internet shopping has been a boon and home deliveries are made full use of. As much local
produce is bought as is possible - I can't remember when I last went into a supermarket to
do a 'Big Shop'.
Instead of always thinking 'car', we look at the best option for the journey, be it walk,
cycle, bus, train, taxi or a mix of any of them. It can take some planning, but this soon
becomes second nature and it is rare that a journey cannot be undertaken - less than a
handful since the car went to the scrap heap.

Go for it - you will not regret it.

John B

Roos Eisma said:

David Martin said:

Without having a commitment on both sides it becomes hard to do. She
will be the one most put out if she has to forgo what she is used to
for transport etc.

Quoted message said:

You could start by working out all the costs to run the car vs
alternatives, investigate other forms of transport (possibly a moped or
electric bike) and so on. The teens will just ahve to learn to live
with it - good for them to learn how to find and use appropriate
resources.

And when you've worked out all the costs you can see that you can spend
some of what you save on making life easier. My carless parents would
occasionally take a taxi if they had to go somewhere early or remote and
busses weren't available or not convenient.

This is what we do. when working out the sums we calculated we could afford
a taxi to almost anywhere we would need to go to at least four times a
week. In effect we rarely need to do so - perhaps once a month - thus
saving quite a few shedfulls, but the option is always there.

John B

John B said:

Anyone who drives becomes part of the problem of
creating health problems, polluting our environment and increasing
congestion.

Even taxi drivers? ;-)

Quoted message said:

For me the main practical consideration if going carless would be
how close I was to my food shopping as I wouldn't fancy lugging
groceries for 5 and distance on a regular basis.

For the last 15 years I have not had access to a car. My wife and I
share the shopping as appropriate to whatever else we need to do that
day. Because of the location of suitable shops, rather than doing one
weekly shop, we will do two or three smaller shops each week.

By the way, in addition to ne exhaust pollution this is better for the
environment, as we get as much as possible with absolutely minimum
packaging, as it's less to carry home and our panniers can carry more!

PhilD

--
<><

Quoted message said:

For me the main practical consideration if going carless would be
how close I was to my food shopping as I wouldn't fancy lugging
groceries for 5 and distance on a regular basis. Not that it couldn't
be done.

....nor would it necessarily need to be done if your local supermarket
is online.

Quoted message said:

Fo you the main question is your wife willing o commute 8 miles on a
bike or is the public transport good enough to replace the car for this
commute if she is not going to cycle.

Maybe get her to try it once a week to start off, see how she gets on,
taking bus or taxi on the other days - she might find that she's soon
willingly cycling two or three times a week...

It might help if you use some of the money you save on the car to buy
her a Really Nice Bike and All The Gear - cycling can be a pleasure
even in the cold, dark and rain if you are suitably equipped.

d.

Simon Bennett said:

John B said:

Anyone who drives becomes part of the problem of
creating health problems, polluting our environment and increasing
congestion.

Even taxi drivers? ;-)

Especially taxi drivers, who frequently have 0 or 1 people en-route. In
many cases they cause more pollution and congestion per passanger mile
than even sales reps.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going carless.
Can the panel
comment on the practicalities or such for a family with teenagers. We live
in a country
town (woodbridge) and I work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles
away) and she
is less inclined to ride her bike.

Hi Paul!

An excellent idea...

Others have given good advice and support; IMO the main snagging point I can
see is convincing your wife (particularly if she does not cycle regularly)
to ride what is perceived to be a considerable distance (at least to
newbies)

Also if she does standard office hours traffic may be intimidating; as there
certainly are bits of Ipswich that get quite congested in the morning.

OTOH its easy enough to get fit enough to do this mileage within a few
months. I ride about 7 miles to work; although its actually from the urban
area of Ipswich to a semi-rural location.

Doing it just "one day a week" and then increasing the time particularly
with better weather (well not today!) would be a good suggestion.

As for the teenagers; having perhaps more recently been one than some of the
other members of this group I would also suggest a "softly softly" approach.

You do not want to come across /too/ much like some "modern parents" beard
and sandals wearing Dad, lest your kids out of teenage rebellion decide to
look to Jeremy Clarkson as a role model and become full on gary boys/girls.

OTOH it may be that if you are currently having to pick them up/drop them
off at friends houses - if they start cycling they may enjoy the greater
independence that cycling gives them.

Alex
--
Mr R@T / General Lighting
Ipswich, Suffolk, Untied Kingdom
http://www.partyvibe.com

Simon Bennett wrote on 26/06/2006 15:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

John B said:

Anyone who drives becomes part of the problem of
creating health problems, polluting our environment and increasing
congestion.

Even taxi drivers? ;-)

A serious point if you do it on environmental grounds. A taxi will
typically have to do twice the miles a private car would - the journey
to pick you up, your journey and the journey back to base. Then there
is all the mileage of the on-line shopping delivery drivers etc bringing
stuff from miles away instead of the local shops.... Its easy to think
you are reducing the problem when you are simply moving it to somewhere
else..

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

paul said:

for reasons of conscience and finance I'm considering going carless.

I know a bloke called Paul, living in Woodbridge and considering
carlessness. There's a coincidence ....

A friend of mine was totally bike-based & carless & managed to beg lifts
for his SCUBA kit wherever we went, which was fine. A little annoying
though when he proudly told folk how he'd done without a car for 8 years
& couldn't see why anyone couldn't and how much they could save on
running costs, forgetting to mention how many cost-free lifts he cadged
.... 🙂

Quoted message said:

my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away)

there are bike lockers at Martlesham Park & Ride, if she can brave the
roundabout or take the slightly longer route via the two A12 underpasses
or the Bealings road bridge (which involves a small hill).

Phil

paul said:

Hi all. I'm a long time lurker and occasional poster. I'm a darksider
by inclination, but also have 'dale for playing in the dirt. Just
thought I'd mention that as way of intro 🙂

Anyway, for reasons of conscince and finance I'm consdiring going
carless. Can the panel comment on the practicalities or such for a
family with teenagers. We live in a country town (woodbridge) and I
work from home, but my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away) and she is
less inclined to ride her bike.

Thanks in Advance

Did you mean that you also want your wife to go "carless"? I suggest
you ask her first.
It may be OK for you, working from home, your SO may think differently.

--
Mike

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

paul said:

for reasons of conscience and finance I'm considering going carless.

I know a bloke called Paul, living in Woodbridge and considering
carlessness. There's a coincidence ....

Indeed, a coincidence ;o)

Quoted message said:

A friend of mine was totally bike-based & carless & managed to beg lifts
for his SCUBA kit wherever we went, which was fine. A little annoying
though when he proudly told folk how he'd done without a car for 8 years
& couldn't see why anyone couldn't and how much they could save on
running costs, forgetting to mention how many cost-free lifts he cadged
... 🙂

The coincedences keep mounting 🙂 Actually, my diving, (and canoeing as mentioned by
Peter C up there) are the things that are trying my mind at the moment. I might have to
reduce to one old jelopey instead of two nearly new cars rather thatn just go without.
Thoughts are turning to some sort of small camper van so it would be dual use. Mind you,
or the diving, I could _possibly_ get away with a bike trailer as most of the club trips
start from AP in anycase.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

my wife works Ipswich (8 miles away)

there are bike lockers at Martlesham Park & Ride, if she can brave the
roundabout or take the slightly longer route via the two A12 underpasses
or the Bealings road bridge (which involves a small hill).

This has been considered as a possiblity. Watch this space 🙂

Quoted message said:

Phil

"paul" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The coincedences keep mounting 🙂 Actually, my diving, (and canoeing as
mentioned by
Peter C up there) are the things that are trying my mind at the moment. I
might have to
reduce to one old jelopey instead of two nearly new cars rather thatn just
go without.
Thoughts are turning to some sort of small camper van so it would be dual
use. Mind you,
or the diving, I could _possibly_ get away with a bike trailer as most of
the club trips
start from AP in anycase.

The other thing for diving is to use a sea-kayak rather than a boat with an
engine. Mate who has gone carless has also gone down this route (though he
tends to borrow/hire a car to get the kayaks around).

I'd say reducing to one car from two is going to be loads easier than
getting rid of them both.

Personally I have a car for non-essentials only, which means I'm happy that
I'm driving it because I want to, not because I have to. (sorry, I'm too
slack to get rid of it completely).

cheers,
clive

Tony Raven said:

Then there
is all the mileage of the on-line shopping delivery drivers etc bringing
stuff from miles away instead of the local shops.... Its easy to think
you are reducing the problem when you are simply moving it to somewhere
else..

Not quite. Of course local shops come first, but if they are not available
then using delivery firms is often better than a personal car journey as
they usually use their vehicles for a number of deliveries within an area.
This is certainly the case with online food shopping.

A major problem with car ownership is that owners rarely consider
alternative options - which may often be better - the "I've got a car so
i'll use it to the full" syndrome.

John B

Tony Raven said:

Simon Bennett wrote on 26/06/2006 15:30 +0100:

Quoted message said:

John B said:

Anyone who drives becomes part of the problem of
creating health problems, polluting our environment and increasing
congestion.

Even taxi drivers? ;-)

A serious point if you do it on environmental grounds. A taxi will
typically have to do twice the miles a private car would - the journey
to pick you up, your journey and the journey back to base. Then there
is all the mileage of the on-line shopping delivery drivers etc bringing
stuff from miles away instead of the local shops.... Its easy to think
you are reducing the problem when you are simply moving it to somewhere
else..

By using a taxi you're sharing out the capital costs of manufacturing
that vehicle with all the other taxi users. Plus cars produce *much*
more pollution (and suffer most of the damage that wears them out) in
the first few miles of use. Twice the milage in a vehicle which is
already warmed up is far less costly (in both cash and environmental
terms) than starting a vehicle from cold for a short trip.

It's usually a mistake to focus purely on the miles travelled if
you're concerned with environmental costs: If you buy lettuce in the
early spring for example, it's probably more environmentally friendly
to buy Spanish rather than British -- the energy cost of heating the
greenhouses is greater (I understand) than shipping the lettuce from
Spain to the UK. Of course, not buying lettuce out of season would be
even more environmentally friendly...

cheers, Phil

--
http://www.kantaka.co.uk/ .oOo. public key: http://www.kantaka.co.uk/gpg.txt

Tony Raven <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

A serious point if you do it on environmental grounds. A taxi will
typically have to do twice the miles a private car would - the journey
to pick you up, your journey and the journey back to base. Then there
is all the mileage of the on-line shopping delivery drivers etc bringing
stuff from miles away instead of the local shops.... Its easy to think
you are reducing the problem when you are simply moving it to somewhere
else..

The mini-cabs I use have radios and the taxis have radio/computer
equipment; they go to the nearest appropriate job, not 'back to base',
reducing pollution etc...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.