Re: Fish Oil Processing

Quoted message said:

Great, does that mean you will stop posting stupid questions?

--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com

Like what, that concentrated highly unstable polyunsaturated fish oils
cause cancer because they are immunosupressive?

Do you really think i'm just making this up? I'm just surprised that
there is so much negative info out there re: fish oil. Shouldn't it be
the cats ass? Common Will, kind of like how Whey is such a healthy
bovine protein?

Where is Montygram...at least he knew what he was talking about.

email hidden said:

Quoted message said:

Great, does that mean you will stop posting stupid questions?

--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com

Like what, that concentrated highly unstable polyunsaturated fish oils
cause cancer because they are immunosupressive?

Of course, omega-3 (as opposed to omega-6) fatty acids help reduce
inflammation and chronic inflammation is one of the main drivers
behind cancer.

Quoted message said:

Do you really think i'm just making this up?

No, you just don't understand the stuff. Everybody knows that omega-6
is pro-inflammatory while omega-3 is anti-inflammatory. Everybody
except you!

Quoted message said:

I'm just surprised that there is so much negative info out there
re: fish oil.

Not from reliable sources.

Quoted message said:

Common Will, kind of like how Whey is such a healthy bovine protein?

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

Quoted message said:

Where is Montygram...at least he knew what he was talking about.

I think you are Montygram's alter ego.

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

Quoted message said:

No, you just don't understand the stuff. Everybody knows that omega-6
is pro-inflammatory while omega-3 is anti-inflammatory. Everybody
except you!

No, I know it too. I just think there is more to it than meets the
eye.

Quoted message said:

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

So you're saying that if I take a scoop in water that my body is going
to utilize it all? Or will it just go through me?

Q: Are fish oils good for you?

Some of the unsaturated fats in fish are definitely less toxic than
those in corn oil or soy oil, but that doesn't mean they are safe.
Fifty years ago, it was found that a large amount of cod liver oil in
dogs' diet increased their death rate from cancer by 20 times, from the
usual 5% to 100%. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of
toxic lipid peroxides, and has been observed to reduce a man's sperm
count to zero. [H. Sinclair, Prog. Lipid Res. 25, 667, 1989.]

-Dr. Ray Peak

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Great, does that mean you will stop posting stupid questions?

Like what, that concentrated highly unstable polyunsaturated fish oils
cause cancer because they are immunosupressive?

Do you really think i'm just making this up?

Yes, I do. Cite one study in a respected peer-reviewed journal, not
some neo-hippie natural food web site ... just one ... that
establishes any substantial link between fish oil and cancer.

Fish oil is slightly immunosuppressive for the same reason that it is
anti-inflammatory. You probably shouldn't use it if you have AIDS.
However, if you have any one of a number of illnesses that involve
inflamed tissues, it can be very beneficial

Quoted message said:

Where is Montygram...at least he knew what he was talking about.

If you look hard enough, you can always find another loon who will
agree with you.

email hidden said:

Quoted message said:

No, you just don't understand the stuff. Everybody knows that omega-6
is pro-inflammatory while omega-3 is anti-inflammatory. Everybody
except you!

No, I know it too. I just think there is more to it than meets the
eye.

What you think doesn't really matter. If you have reliable data, share
it, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

So you're saying that if I take a scoop in water that my body is going
to utilize it all? Or will it just go through me?

Don't know. My guess is that you'll get it all if you don't have any
digestive/malaborption problems.

Quoted message said:

Q: Are fish oils good for you?

Some of the unsaturated fats in fish are definitely less toxic than
those in corn oil or soy oil, but that doesn't mean they are safe.
Fifty years ago, it was found that a large amount of cod liver oil in
dogs' diet increased their death rate from cancer by 20 times, from the
usual 5% to 100%. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of
toxic lipid peroxides, and has been observed to reduce a man's sperm
count to zero. [H. Sinclair, Prog. Lipid Res. 25, 667, 1989.]

-Dr. Ray Peak

Here comes the usual montygram [censored]...

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

Quoted message said:

Q: Are fish oils good for you?
Some of the unsaturated fats in fish are definitely less toxic than
those in corn oil or soy oil, but that doesn't mean they are safe.
Fifty years ago, it was found that a large amount of cod liver oil in
dogs' diet increased their death rate from cancer by 20 times, from the
usual 5% to 100%. A diet rich in fish oil causes intense production of
toxic lipid peroxides, and has been observed to reduce a man's sperm
count to zero. [H. Sinclair, Prog. Lipid Res. 25, 667, 1989.]
-Dr. Ray Peak

It's "Peat". This paragraph is often reposted by the same person who
doesn't think that HIV has anything to do with AIDS: it indicates
complete inability to critically evaluate the body of knowledge, or
even understand what constitutes scientific evidence.

The paragraph also misstates the year of Sinclair's publication. The
publication is not a peer-reviewed paper, but rather a transcript of
an informal pre-banquet talk with digressions such as what would be
the length of all publications of a scientist when measured in toilet
paper rolls :-)

It does not mention the mysterious dogs cancer rates study, which
apparently remains unconfirmed for about 70 years now.

The sperm count reduction is an anecdotal self-observation when the
author went on a 100 days diet of seal blubber and mackerel oil.

Now think about it.

BTW, Sinclair's paper ends with:

"In health, there's nothing so becomes a man
As low cholesterol, high EFA:
But when non-EFA flow in our veins,
They imitate the action of snake-venom,
....
Refill your glasses and let each one say
Thank God for prostanoids and EFA!"

Just Cocky <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

malaborption problems.

<emily litella>

They're protesting those things, you know.

....

Oh. I'm sorry. Never mind.

</emily litella>

--
Curt
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/malabsorption
http://www.prochoice.org/

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Quoted message said:

Great, does that mean you will stop posting stupid questions?

--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com

Like what, that concentrated highly unstable polyunsaturated fish oils
cause cancer because they are immunosupressive?

Cite please, and not some [censored] web site you have used before, but
published studies. Data shows reduced cancer rates with n3 lipids as
already explained to your stupid ass by others. It's much more
complicated then you understand, thus you should shut your pie hole.

Quoted message said:

Do you really think i'm just making this up?

I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.

Quoted message said:

I'm just surprised that
there is so much negative info out there re: fish oil.

There's plenty of info, both good and bad. The bulk of the data is
positive however.

Quoted message said:

Shouldn't it be
the cats ass?

It is.

Quoted message said:

Common Will, kind of like how Whey is such a healthy
bovine protein?

Exactly, now shut the fu*& up.

--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com

Will Brink said:

I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.

Fair enough. I have a question for you Mr. Brink:

Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.

Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis?

[email hidden] wrote:

: Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis?

The opposite is true. DHA prevents cognitive decline in old age.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/514317

--
Juhana

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Will Brink said:

I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.

Fair enough.

OK, let's start over here.

Quoted message said:

I have a question for you Mr. Brink:

Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.

Yes, that is a concern. Two major concerns with commercial fish oils are
contaminants and oxidation products. Both are valid concerns, but much
less so with modern producers who test regularly and use Molecular
Distillation which does a great job of producing high quality oils. For
example:

http://www.hsc.com.my/mservices/Reason_HSC%20fish%20oil.html

No is saying there are not concerns to address with highly unsaturated
lipids, but the data is VERY clear the benafits outweigh the risks.
Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant of the research.

--
Will Brink @ www.BrinkZone.com

Just Cocky said:

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

Not necessarily.

There was a small study comparing various food proteins and how they
affected glucose, insulin, amino acids, and incretin hormones GIP/GLP-1
in healthy subjects.

It appears there's a disproportionately large insulin spike that occurs
under the influence of whey. It is that spike that lowers blood
glucose.

If this study can be replicated in larger populations, those who use
whey in drinks and other recipes may be enjoying lower glucose levels
at the expense of remaining beta cells and all the health problems
(like weight gain) chronic hyperinsulinemia can bring.

Read the fulltext at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1246

On Sat, 10 Jun 2006 12:37:50 -0400, Will Brink <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

Will Brink said:

I think I have forgotten more on this topic then you will ever know. I
think you should stop acting like an ass and ask questions and learn vs
being an idiot.

Fair enough.

OK, let's start over here.

Quoted message said:

I have a question for you Mr. Brink:

Wouldn't fish oil go rancid at the point where the manufacturers slam
press the fish (or livers or whatever) due to the friction?
Furthermore, since we don't know when this was done -- who knows how
long it has been sitting before shipping.

Yes, that is a concern. Two major concerns with commercial fish oils are
contaminants and oxidation products. Both are valid concerns, but much
less so with modern producers who test regularly and use Molecular
Distillation which does a great job of producing high quality oils. For
example:

http://www.hsc.com.my/mservices/Reason_HSC%20fish%20oil.html

No is saying there are not concerns to address with highly unsaturated
lipids, but the data is VERY clear the benafits outweigh the risks.
Anyone who claims otherwise is ignorant of the research.

Sorry to say, but man has been eating rancid, salted herrings for
centuries without falling immediately dead to the ground. In fact,
those eating that (it taste horrible) was far healthier than those
living today.
(But, lung inflammation diseases like tuberculosis did kill a lot of
people to be that old that fat induced diseases would be significant
in those days)

"Alf Christophersen" <[email hidden]> schreef:

Quoted message said:

Sorry to say, but man has been eating rancid, salted herrings for
centuries without falling immediately dead to the ground. In fact,
those eating that (it taste horrible)....

Actually, it taste VERY good!

----
Pete

email hidden said:

Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis?

Never heard a word about it.

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

On 10 Jun 2006 11:33:45 -0700, "italiangm" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just Cocky said:

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

Not necessarily.

There was a small study comparing various food proteins and how they
affected glucose, insulin, amino acids, and incretin hormones GIP/GLP-1
in healthy subjects.

It appears there's a disproportionately large insulin spike that occurs
under the influence of whey. It is that spike that lowers blood
glucose.

If this study can be replicated in larger populations, those who use
whey in drinks and other recipes may be enjoying lower glucose levels
at the expense of remaining beta cells and all the health problems
(like weight gain) chronic hyperinsulinemia can bring.

Read the fulltext at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1246

I wasn't aware of this study. I agree with you that if those results
can be extrapolated to larger populations, whey protein shouldn't be
taken alone. My guess is that taking whey protein with some kind of
fat would probably help considerably in the hyperinsulinemia
department. What do you think?

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

Just Cocky said:

email hidden said:

Also, are you familiar with the DHA-accelerated aging hypothesis?

Never heard a word about it.

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

Here, take a read through here:

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/crsociety/message/2905

Quoted message said:

I wasn't aware of this study. I agree with you that if those results
can be extrapolated to larger populations, whey protein shouldn't be
taken alone. My guess is that taking whey protein with some kind of
fat would probably help considerably in the hyperinsulinemia
department. What do you think?

--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell

There is a big surprise. Imagine, taking a protein away from all its
"supporting structures" (right Will?) yielding an effect that wouldn't
occur if the whole was consumed.

Hey Will, whey powder must be even better than -- it cranks up the
insulin to drive more aminos into the blood! Kick ass! I can't
believe whey isn't making us all steroid hyoooge!

italiangm said:

Just Cocky said:

Whey *IS* a very healthy bovine protein.

Not necessarily.

There was a small study comparing various food proteins and how they
affected glucose, insulin, amino acids, and incretin hormones GIP/GLP-1
in healthy subjects.

It appears there's a disproportionately large insulin spike that occurs
under the influence of whey. It is that spike that lowers blood
glucose.

If this study can be replicated in larger populations, those who use
whey in drinks and other recipes may be enjoying lower glucose levels
at the expense of remaining beta cells and all the health problems
(like weight gain) chronic hyperinsulinemia can bring.

Read the fulltext at http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1246

Whey is used almost solely by persons engaged in resistance training,
and if properly used, it is usually consumed contemporaneously with
that training. In such cases, an insulin spike is beneficial.

Your scenario is not consistent with reality.