knees

It sounds like the trendmill was covering for your worn out shoes and
you pumped up the mileage too quickly. Enjoy the outside, but cut the
mileage back some and get some fresh shoes.

Piedmont Donald

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either

outside

Quoted message said:

or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better. Unfortunately, its
concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above

and

Quoted message said:

below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)

although

Quoted message said:

I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).
Any suggestions as what to do?

Lyle

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either
outside
or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better. Unfortunately, its
concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above
and
below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)
although
I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Quoted message said:

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Agreed, get new shoes. And get off hard surfaces whenever you. Take it from
a 64 year old who is now trying to rehabilitate his sore knees after decades
of running with very good shoes on concrete and asphalt.

Tom

--
www.DuendeDrama.org
Bringing Plays and Stories
to Our Schools and Communities

Doug Freese said:

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either
outside
or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better. Unfortunately, its
concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above
and
below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)
although
I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Thanks for info. Is there anything else that I should do? I really dont
want to take a lot of time off. Some others suggest thigh
strengthening exercises, etc? What do you guy and girls think?

Thanks again for the information.

Lyle

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for info. Is there anything else that I should do? I really
dont
want to take a lot of time off. Some others suggest thigh
strengthening exercises, etc? What do you guy and girls think?

New shoes and a few days rest. If it hurts to run, rest some more. I'd
try to find a softer surface in general like a dirt trail, concrete is
about the harshest. When the pain goes away stay with every other day,
then 2 on and one off. Let's hope it's a at the early stages and
recovery is quick.

-DF

Change surfaces.

Replace shoes.

Ice after running. Take bufferin if you can tolerate it.

Try those knee bands that go right below the knee cap. Do NOT put them on
tight. Some find that they work.

Strengthen the quads. But do half raises (fully extended to slightly
unextended).

Maybe change shoes. 991 are good shoes, but some suggest a change (any
change) may be helpful. Also, you may want to try off-the shelf orthotics.
Anything to change the knee motion.

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Doug Freese said:

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either
outside
or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better. Unfortunately, its
concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above
and
below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)
although
I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Thanks for info. Is there anything else that I should do? I really dont
want to take a lot of time off. Some others suggest thigh
strengthening exercises, etc? What do you guy and girls think?

Thanks again for the information.

Lyle

lyle said:

Doug Freese said:

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either
outside
or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better.

Did you jump from 3mi/day 7 days/wk to 5-6mi/day 7 days all at once? or
are you running less frequently and increased one run at a time? I hope
the latter. Otherwise too-much-too-soon comes into play.

Unfortunately, its

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above
and
below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)
although
I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Thanks for info. Is there anything else that I should do? I really dont
want to take a lot of time off. Some others suggest thigh
strengthening exercises, etc? What do you guy and girls think?

Leg raises would probably help.
http://tinyurl.com/gst5x

I do some other kinds of exercises like squats (various kinds) and
lunges to strengthen quads also, but I generally don't do them if my
knees are hurting.

Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

Lyle,

Sounds like "runner's knee". It is caused by weak quads. Google it and
compare symptoms with yours. If a match you need to build up quads with
single leg presses.

Bob
"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either outside
or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
outside since weather has been getting better. Unfortunately, its
concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above and
below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991) although
I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).
Any suggestions as what to do?

Lyle

Thanks for all the information. I going to try the single leg presses.
Not sure what half raises are.
I was running 3-4 miles a 5-6 days a week with one day off. I then went
to 5-6 miles 5 days a week with two days off. I felt fine (stamina,
pace, etc) except for the pain in the knees.
I know this is like asking what kind of car you like but what shoe do
you guys recommend considering the mileage and concrete surfaces I run
on. I was thinking on
Asics Gel Katano XII. Perhaps I will go to super runners in nyc.

Thanks so much.
Lyle

Dot said:

lyle said:

Doug Freese said:

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>Hey everybody. I am new to the group. I have been running for over a
>year now. For a while I was running about 3 miles a day (either
>outside
>or on trendmill). I recently moved up to 5-6 miles a day, more on the
>outside since weather has been getting better.

Did you jump from 3mi/day 7 days/wk to 5-6mi/day 7 days all at once? or
are you running less frequently and increased one run at a time? I hope
the latter. Otherwise too-much-too-soon comes into play.

Unfortunately, its

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>concrete sidewalks (NYC). The concrete never bothered me before.
>Lately, my knees have been giving me a lot of pain. Kneecap, above
>and
>below and the inside and behind the knee, almost where the quad meets
>the knee. It comes and goes and is in both knees and occurs walking,
>sitting and running. I have very good shoes (new balance 991)
>although
>I have using them for just under a year (probably 800+ miles).

Most shoes are good for about 500 miles. They may have lost all/most of
their compression and not providing the protection you need especially
on concrete. Sooooo, try some new kicks.

-DF

Thanks for info. Is there anything else that I should do? I really dont
want to take a lot of time off. Some others suggest thigh
strengthening exercises, etc? What do you guy and girls think?

Leg raises would probably help.
http://tinyurl.com/gst5x

I do some other kinds of exercises like squats (various kinds) and
lunges to strengthen quads also, but I generally don't do them if my
knees are hurting.

Good luck.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

lyle said:

I know this is like asking what kind of car you like but what
shoe do you guys recommend considering the mileage and
concrete surfaces I run on.

Well, I second the recommendation to get off the concrete, at least for
some of those miles. And to replace those high-mileage shoes ASAP.

Which shoe? I dunno what's gonna fit your foot, feel good, work for
your mechanics and your weight, etc. But here's a thought: consider
rotating two slightly different shoe models. Obviously you wouldn't
use a super heavy duty motion control shoe on Monday then a
barely-there flat on Tuesday; but inasmuch as a shoe influences your
stride and therefore the stresses on your various parts, maybe it's
better to spread some of that stress around a little by varying the
shoes.

Works for me anyway; I keep four or five pairs in rotation. Some
runners employ this strategy while others disparage it for one reason
or another, e.g. if you're rotating three different shoes and get
injured, you don't know which one was at fault.

Just want to let you know that I changed my shoes (saucony hurricane 8)
and I took a couple days off. I also started with leg raises and leg
presses. I am feeling alot better (immediately starting feeling better
with the new shoes) and see what happens. Thanks alot for info. I
think I will get another pair of a different kind of shoe and rotate
them.

BTW, do most runners keep multiple pairs. Just thinking about the
mileage that adds up if you run daily, you would be going through shoes
every few months (or earlier I suppose)
Expensive.

Lyle

Quoted message said:

lyle said:

I know this is like asking what kind of car you like but what
shoe do you guys recommend considering the mileage and
concrete surfaces I run on.

Well, I second the recommendation to get off the concrete, at least for
some of those miles. And to replace those high-mileage shoes ASAP.

Which shoe? I dunno what's gonna fit your foot, feel good, work for
your mechanics and your weight, etc. But here's a thought: consider
rotating two slightly different shoe models. Obviously you wouldn't
use a super heavy duty motion control shoe on Monday then a
barely-there flat on Tuesday; but inasmuch as a shoe influences your
stride and therefore the stresses on your various parts, maybe it's
better to spread some of that stress around a little by varying the
shoes.

Works for me anyway; I keep four or five pairs in rotation. Some
runners employ this strategy while others disparage it for one reason
or another, e.g. if you're rotating three different shoes and get
injured, you don't know which one was at fault.

"lyle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

BTW, do most runners keep multiple pairs.

Some people like rotate many pairs. In my simplistic mind I prefer only
two. Every 250 or so miles I throw in a new pair. It allows me to feel
the difference. If they had the same mileage you can't sense the
difference until your body(pain or discomfort, what you experience now)
or your log says different. Some people like to alternate different
brands/models, I prefer one brand/model and when it works, buy a bunch
of pairs. For me there are enough variables in running without
introducing a wide variety of shoes.

I'm addressing one's typical daily run and not trip to the track or a
race where a pair of lighter shoes are at times used by serious
runners. Since I'm old and slow, I race in what I train and eliminate
one potential problem.

Quoted message said:

Just thinking about the
mileage that adds up if you run daily, you would be going through
shoes
every few months (or earlier I suppose)

Yup! I use about 4-6 a year

Quoted message said:

Expensive.

Yup again but compared to race cars or golf it's cheap. If it keeps you
healty or healthier, you get to spend the money on shoes and not a
doctor or co-payments . 😉

-DougF

lyle said:

BTW, do most runners keep multiple pairs. Just thinking about the
mileage that adds up if you run daily, you would be going through shoes
every few months (or earlier I suppose)
Expensive.

Like every other practice among runners, it varies.

In rec.running at least, probably the majority who have mentioned shoes
seem to stick with one model if not one pair of shoes.

As Doug said, running is still about the cheapest sport - and one of
the cheaper ways to spend time period - you're gonna find. You can get
about 500 miles out of an $80 (full retail) pair of shoes - that's
about a buck an hour. Compare to seeing a movie, going out for dinner,
driving... As a runner you probably spend more on the extra food
you'll eat to replace calories burned than you will on equipment.
Unless you're an anorexic gadget freak.

And you won't spend more by rotating a couple pair. If anything you
might get a few *more* miles out of each pair than if you went through
them serially.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And you won't spend more by rotating a couple pair. If anything you
might get a few *more* miles out of each pair than if you went through
them serially.

By the way, I don't rotate so I can get more miles from a pair of shoes.
I'm not sure if rotating improves life span but it does help you get
into dry shoes during wet consecutive days. I rotate as a safety valve -
it tells me when my kicks are starting to die before I need to see the
vet. I may indirectly get more wear since I will take a pair of shoes
that misbehaves on a long run and then relegate then to short runs
before they get rotated to lawn mowing. I find long runs magnify the
efficacy of a pair of kicks.

-DF

Quoted message said:

lyle said:

I know this is like asking what kind of car you like but what
shoe do you guys recommend considering the mileage and
concrete surfaces I run on.

Well, I second the recommendation to get off the concrete, at least for
some of those miles. And to replace those high-mileage shoes ASAP.

Which shoe? I dunno what's gonna fit your foot, feel good, work for
your mechanics and your weight, etc. But here's a thought: consider
rotating two slightly different shoe models. Obviously you wouldn't
use a super heavy duty motion control shoe on Monday then a
barely-there flat on Tuesday; but inasmuch as a shoe influences your
stride and therefore the stresses on your various parts, maybe it's
better to spread some of that stress around a little by varying the
shoes.

Works for me anyway; I keep four or five pairs in rotation. Some
runners employ this strategy while others disparage it for one reason
or another, e.g. if you're rotating three different shoes and get
injured, you don't know which one was at fault.

Change your shoes first. In fact, get two pair and alternate. Two
pair alternated will
last more than twice as long.

And, even in the city you can certainly run on soft ground. a long time
ago I used
to run along the Hudson River. There were lots of runners, and the dirt
paths wre
absolutely perfect.

Of course, at Columbia's gym in the late 70s, they had an indoor track
with
some type of high tech (for the time) rubbery springy surfact. I wonder
why
they looked at me strangely when I wore my track spikes?

Best of luck.

I might of spoke to soon. As my knees were feeling better, I began to
run regularly again and although both knees are not bothering me, my
left still troubles me. In addition, I have had the terrible burning
sensation (overheating) in my left shin while I was running. So much
so, I had to stop in the middle of my run. I hope that experience is
temporary or maybe I did not stretch completely.
Sorry to be so much bother. It is really depressing not to be able to
run. May have to take at least one week off without any activity.

Lyle

Beach Runner said:

Quoted message said:

lyle said:

I know this is like asking what kind of car you like but what
shoe do you guys recommend considering the mileage and
concrete surfaces I run on.

Well, I second the recommendation to get off the concrete, at least for
some of those miles. And to replace those high-mileage shoes ASAP.

Which shoe? I dunno what's gonna fit your foot, feel good, work for
your mechanics and your weight, etc. But here's a thought: consider
rotating two slightly different shoe models. Obviously you wouldn't
use a super heavy duty motion control shoe on Monday then a
barely-there flat on Tuesday; but inasmuch as a shoe influences your
stride and therefore the stresses on your various parts, maybe it's
better to spread some of that stress around a little by varying the
shoes.

Works for me anyway; I keep four or five pairs in rotation. Some
runners employ this strategy while others disparage it for one reason
or another, e.g. if you're rotating three different shoes and get
injured, you don't know which one was at fault.

Change your shoes first. In fact, get two pair and alternate. Two
pair alternated will
last more than twice as long.

And, even in the city you can certainly run on soft ground. a long time
ago I used
to run along the Hudson River. There were lots of runners, and the dirt
paths wre
absolutely perfect.

Of course, at Columbia's gym in the late 70s, they had an indoor track
with
some type of high tech (for the time) rubbery springy surfact. I wonder
why
they looked at me strangely when I wore my track spikes?

Best of luck.