Wrong way dude

Claire Petersky said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years to
turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve into
pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and since
there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have to sit
through the whole light cycle.

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk. [snip]

It must be the planetary alignments, or something. On the way home
from the used book store less than half an hour ago, we were going
north on Shepherd near I-10, heading up the left lane, when a guy in
street clothes on a roadie went past us *southbound* on our right.
Shepherd is a one-way street at that point, four lanes wide and fairly
busy. This guy was in one of the two center lanes. It was full dark,
there aren't many street lights on that stretch, and the guy had zero
lighting and not even a reflector on the bike as far as I could tell.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Claire Petersky said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way." He takes
this badly, makes an obscene gesture and calls me a dumb [censored]. No sooner
does he completes his invective, but he then nearly gets creamed by a
right-turning car. Rather than taking this as a sign that perhaps riding the
wrong way is dangerous; or even considering that the driver should have
looked for a pedestrian (which he could have been, I suppose) and should be
the target of his wrath; he instead sees me as the one to blame for this
near-miss, and calls me further names. I said, "hey, it's just, if you ride
the wrong way, you're more likely to get hit -- it's your choice!" Well, he
rode off, yelling one more thing my way after riding another block -- I
guess it took him that long to think of it.

There's a section in Robert Hurst's book: "The Art of Urban Cycling",
about properly dealing (or perhaps, /not/ dealing) with blame. He
should read it.

Quoted message said:

Eventually, the light did turn green, and I made my left on to Dearborn.
From the viewpoint of getting from point a to b as fast as possible, he
certainly had the advantage over me, as he was so far ahead, he was a tiny
dot down the road.

At this time of year all kinds of know-it-all riders come out of
the woodwork, who are compelled to prove they're faster & braver
than all the rest. A lot of 'em get clobbered, just like this guy
nearly did. The only thing that'll educate them is their own
humbling experiences. Sometimes we've just gotta leave people to
learn things the hard way.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

In article <[email hidden]>,

Claire Petersky said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way."

There was an article in a recent Texas racing 'zine that had this woman
racer complaining about cyclist's bad habits like blowing stop signs and
riding three abreast and such. "We have to do our part to share the
road!" That's cool.

Then, she urged shouting out when people break the rules. "Tell them to
stop at stop signs. Let them know they need to be considerate."

I wondered to myself, does she shout out to sidewalk cyclists and wrong
way wilburs? Does she tell gutter huggers to take the lane?

Anyway, Claire, you did right.

--
fneep

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

The only thing that'll educate them is their own
humbling experiences. Sometimes we've just gotta leave people to
learn things the hard way.

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

--
fneep

Claire Petersky wrote:
::
:: I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way." He

You're nicer than I am. I would have said, "Dumbass, wrong way."

However, I would have said that in my mind.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Kevan Smith said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

The only thing that'll educate them is their own
humbling experiences. Sometimes we've just gotta leave people to
learn things the hard way.

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride.

IME it just doesn't work. People get defensive at the least perception
of criticism, and then they dig their heels in.

And when that other rider bursts forth into the fray of busy cross-traffic
just to show you how more adroit he is, are ya gonna yell John Forester 3:16
at him has he either fades off into out-of-hearing distance, or gets run
over by a cement truck?

Quoted message said:

I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road.

I bet they really love being stopped and nagged at.

Quoted message said:

I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

If I tried to pull that off, I'd just get all kinds of vulgar advice in return.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

Nope....you should just mind your own business unless it affects you
personally. Would you yell at every person you see on the street smoking,
"Hey, cigarettes will kill you!" or everyone going into a McDonalds, "Hey
that [censored] will give you a heart attack!" ? No, you wouldn't. This way of
thinking is just so typical of the liberal "I know what's best for you"
mindset.

Kevan Smith said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Claire Petersky said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way."

There was an article in a recent Texas racing 'zine that had this woman
racer complaining about cyclist's bad habits like blowing stop signs and
riding three abreast and such. "We have to do our part to share the
road!" That's cool.

Then, she urged shouting out when people break the rules. "Tell them to
stop at stop signs. Let them know they need to be considerate."

I wondered to myself, does she shout out to sidewalk cyclists and wrong
way wilburs? Does she tell gutter huggers to take the lane?

Anyway, Claire, you did right.

cycle rage...........the next big thing. I know i have it.......

Claire Petersky said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way." He takes
this badly, makes an obscene gesture and calls me a dumb [censored]. No sooner
does he completes his invective, but he then nearly gets creamed by a
right-turning car. Rather than taking this as a sign that perhaps riding the
wrong way is dangerous; or even considering that the driver should have
looked for a pedestrian (which he could have been, I suppose) and should be
the target of his wrath; he instead sees me as the one to blame for this
near-miss, and calls me further names. I said, "hey, it's just, if you ride
the wrong way, you're more likely to get hit -- it's your choice!" Well, he
rode off, yelling one more thing my way after riding another block -- I
guess it took him that long to think of it.

I have given up on telling people the dangers of riding the wrong way
and or riding on the sidewalk. I find that most of the people that
behave this way are the people who don't ride much and or only when they
have no other choice.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

contact me here: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/contact.html

Claire Petersky said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years to
turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve into
pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and since
there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have to sit
through the whole light cycle.

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk. I understand the
temptation -- the light takes forever, so you turn left up the sidewalk (or
bike lane, Dearborn has bike lanes on both sides), and then when the traffic
clears, you cross over the 5 or 6 empty lanes and get on the bike lane on
the proper side. But Dearborn, in my experience, is a dangerous street when
it comes to turning cars. I'm a relatively good girl, and still, I have had
several close encounters with turning autos on Dearborn, plus the one time
I've actually been hit was someone turning into Chinatown while I was riding
on Dearborn.

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way." He takes
this badly, makes an obscene gesture and calls me a dumb [censored]. No sooner
does he completes his invective, but he then nearly gets creamed by a
right-turning car. Rather than taking this as a sign that perhaps riding the
wrong way is dangerous; or even considering that the driver should have
looked for a pedestrian (which he could have been, I suppose) and should be
the target of his wrath; he instead sees me as the one to blame for this
near-miss, and calls me further names. I said, "hey, it's just, if you ride
the wrong way, you're more likely to get hit -- it's your choice!" Well, he
rode off, yelling one more thing my way after riding another block -- I
guess it took him that long to think of it.

Eventually, the light did turn green, and I made my left on to Dearborn.
From the viewpoint of getting from point a to b as fast as possible, he
certainly had the advantage over me, as he was so far ahead, he was a tiny
dot down the road.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Heh! I was on the receiving end in a similar encounter last Friday. I've said
here before that I stick to sidewalks for the most part. There are exceptions,
but one street in particular I have never biked in the quarter century I've
lived here: it's a major commuting route between two towns that straddle the
Susquehanna River. It is big-time dangerous, even for cages. So I'm spinning
along the sidewalk, approaching, and then cruising beside, a line of cages that
were stopped at a light. Suddenly a cyclist who was stopped near the head of
the snarl swiveled toward me and sang out, "Ride in the street!". The light had
turned green in the mean time and the car ahead of her had already bolted. The
impatient trucker sitting directly behind the bike added a comment by tuning up
his air horns. It came from behind me, stopped my heart, and just about tore
the hair off my legs. Looking back I saw the cyclist staggering to balance on
one leg, twisted around and looking behind her, bike splayed at a 45.

--
Michael

Claire Petersky said:

Eventually, the light did turn green, and I made my left on to Dearborn.
From the viewpoint of getting from point a to b as fast as possible, he
certainly had the advantage over me, as he was so far ahead, he was a tiny
dot down the road.

I'd rather watch a tiny dot than be a tiny blob on the road. OK, it
might not be so tiny a blob.

I just have to laugh that he was trying to blame YOU for somebody else
almost hitting him because of where he was riding. Wonder how he'd
spell "responsibility?" Would that be "n-o-t m-y f-a-u-l-t?"

Pat

Claire Petersky said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years to
turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve into
pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and since
there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have to sit
through the whole light cycle.

Why did the cars cause you to miss the light? Were you faster than them?

Quoted message said:

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk. I understand the
temptation -- the light takes forever, so you turn left up the sidewalk (or
bike lane, Dearborn has bike lanes on both sides), and then when the traffic
clears, you cross over the 5 or 6 empty lanes and get on the bike lane on
the proper side. But Dearborn, in my experience, is a dangerous street when
it comes to turning cars. I'm a relatively good girl, and still, I have had
several close encounters with turning autos on Dearborn, plus the one time
I've actually been hit was someone turning into Chinatown while I was riding
on Dearborn.

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way." He
takes

Were you on the road? On the sidewalk? On the bike lane? How did you say
anything to him if he was riding quickly towards you and you were
stationary behind noisy cars?

Quoted message said:

this badly, makes an obscene gesture and calls me a dumb [censored]. No sooner
does he completes his invective, but he then nearly gets creamed by a
right-turning car. Rather than taking this as a sign that perhaps
riding the

How? He was on the side walk. Did he not obey the lights at the
junction? Who had right of way?

Quoted message said:

wrong way is dangerous; or even considering that the driver should have
looked for a pedestrian (which he could have been, I suppose) and should be
the target of his wrath; he instead sees me as the one to blame for this
near-miss, and calls me further names. I said, "hey, it's just, if you ride
the wrong way, you're more likely to get hit -- it's your choice!" Well, he
rode off, yelling one more thing my way after riding another block -- I
guess it took him that long to think of it.

Eventually, the light did turn green, and I made my left on to Dearborn.
From the viewpoint of getting from point a to b as fast as possible, he
certainly had the advantage over me, as he was so far ahead, he was a tiny
dot down the road.

And the point of this story is what? That if you break lights and/or
take short cuts then you get there quicker? Thanks for that.

are ya gonna yell John Forester 3:16 at him (?)

Is that the lengthy Biblical parable where The Lord tells us what lane
to stay in as we turn left? I always did find that one to be
inspirin'.

Or perhaps it was another one of The Lord's lengthy injunctions, taking
what should be simple, common sense concepts about riding in traffic
and attempting unsuccessfully to elevate them to Ph.D.-thesis material.

Forgive me, Lord John, for I have sinned!

"Hadron Quark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Claire Petersky said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at
Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years
to
turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve
into
pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and
since
there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have to sit
through the whole light cycle.

Why did the cars cause you to miss the light? Were you faster than them?

From the perspective of me on a bicycle, cars take 3 million years to lumber
into an intersection. The light is short. Probably a third of the time that
the light is green the driver of lead car spent thinking, "Oh! The light is
green! What do I do now! Oh! I must remove my foot from the brake! Oh! I
must put my foot on the gas!" I think bikes have the ability to be pretty
fast in the initial acceleration at an intersection. By the time the lead
car started moving, I would have been at least halfway across the street.
But no, we have someone slow at the front, and then there's, I don't know,
maybe 6 or 7 cars behind this one, and then there's me. I guess if I were
not being Ms. Vehicular Cyclist, I would have pulled up to the front of the
line, to the right of this lead car. But I'm turning left, and making a left
from the right hand side makes no sense. The penultimate car went through
the yellow, and the car right in front of me went through the yellow as it
was turning red, leaving me to wait through the entire cycle.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way."

Quoted message said:

Were you on the road? On the sidewalk? On the bike lane? How did you say
anything to him if he was riding quickly towards you and you were
stationary behind noisy cars?

I am sitting at the light, now the lead vehicle, left-hand side of the lane,
since I am turning left. I have a pretty good view of the entire
intersection. He's coming up the sidewalk to my right. It's uphill for him,
so he's riding fairly slowly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

No sooner
does he completes his invective, but he then nearly gets creamed by a
right-turning car.

Quoted message said:

How? He was on the side walk. Did he not obey the lights at the
junction? Who had right of way?

He of course had the right of way. In our state, bicycles have the same
status as pedestrians in a crosswalk, which is where he was. Riding the
wrong way on the sidewalk isn't illegal. The automobile legally should have
looked for anyone in the crosswalk before making the turn, which is why I
suggested that the motorist should have been the target of his anger.

The reality of that street is that people get off the freeway and get on to
Dearborn. Their mindset is still "freeway". And then there's a lot of people
who turn into Chinatown, either because that's their final destination, or
they hope to skip some rush-hour downtown traffic by cutting through, so
they're thinking about how to go fast, not how to drive carefully. I've had
a couple of close calls and one accident on Dearborn due to cars turning on
one of the five or six streets that lead into Chinatown. Even two years
after the hit-and-run, I feel a mild frisson of fear when I ride through the
intersection of Dearborn and Maynard on the way to work.

So, yes, you can ride the wrong way on the sidewalk on Dearborn legally.
It's just not a good idea. The other side of the street has far fewer
turning vehicles. I've never had a problem riding on that south side of the
street -- all my unpleasant encounters have been while riding on the north
side.

I wouldn't have said anything if he looked like a POB. But he looked like a
commuter -- road bike, filled backpack. If he's riding that street like that
every day, he isn't going to almost get creamed, it's going to happen.

Quoted message said:

And the point of this story is what? That if you break lights and/or
take short cuts then you get there quicker? Thanks for that.

Mr. Quark, since you found my post pointless, I recommend you kill the
thread, and read, "Is it possible to live in America without a car" or other
more worthy conversations, instead.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

Kevan Smith said:

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

In my neighborhood (a pretty large residential area in the middle of a
much larger one) there are stop signs and just about every corner. It
is not realistic to come to a complete stop at every one, but I do slow
down for them even if there is no obvious vehicular traffic that I can
see. I see other riders blowing through them, and they are usually
fully outfitted in helmet, shorts and jerseys. I stop at all stop
lights, even if I may go on through if there is a break in the traffic.

Shouting down other cyclists will probably be perceived as you being
rigid and pedantic.

I don't understand "wrong way" on a sidewalk. Don't pedestrians, joggers,
wheelchairs, strollers, and all others go both ways on both sides of the
street on sidewalks (and crosswalks?)

Raoul Duke said:

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of
safer ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I
_always_ make it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on
the road. I have never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out
some facts in a calm and rational manner then let them decide.

Nope....you should just mind your own business unless it affects you
personally. Would you yell at every person you see on the street
smoking, "Hey, cigarettes will kill you!" or everyone going into a
McDonalds, "Hey that [censored] will give you a heart attack!" ? No, you
wouldn't. This way of thinking is just so typical of the liberal "I
know what's best for you" mindset.

I agree with that.../except/ in cases where the wrong way cyclist endangers
MY life. Then I will usually say something to the effect of "you're on the
wrong side of the road!" and leave it at that. (Assuming no collision, of
course.)

I'm still trying to figure out why Claire is waiting through two long light
cycles (no pun) in a left turn lane (?). One of the benefits of being on a
bike is moving right up to the front at stop lights and signs (carefully, of
course). This actually allows the rider to get OUT of the cars' way faster
and sooner and /more safely/ than "acting like a car". Never once had a
problem doing that.

Bill S.

mrbubl said:

cycle rage...........the next big thing. I know i have it.......

"Intermittent explosive disorder" -- the newest thing!

http://www.dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,19383327-5001022,00.html

(One of many.)

Bill "apparently the terra-rat's got it" S.

mrbubl said:

Kevan Smith said:

Claire Petersky said:

I see him coming up the sidewalk, and I say, "Dude, wrong way."

Then, she urged shouting out when people break the rules. "Tell them to
stop at stop signs. Let them know they need to be considerate."

I wondered to myself, does she shout out to sidewalk cyclists and wrong
way wilburs? Does she tell gutter huggers to take the lane?

cycle rage...........the next big thing. I know i have it.......

Cast off your helmets, Oppressed Cyclists, and Arise! Take back your
freedom and your right to the road! You have nothing to lose now,
Riders of the World, unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!

Errrr, wait a minute, that would be bad. You have nothing to lose but
your valve caps?

--
Dane Buson - [email hidden]
"Advertising is a valuable economic factor because it is the
cheapest way of selling goods, particularly if the goods are
worthless." -Sinclair Lewis