Wrong way dude

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob said:

I'll try one last time and then give it up as hopeless.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that, generally speaking,
riding against the flow of traffic increases the likelihood of
colliding with motor vehicles. Where some like myself disagree with you
is on the question of whether or not it is desirable, productive, or
even polite to *stop* wrong way riders to explain- calmly or otherwise-
that they are increasing their risk level by acting in such an
unexpected fashion.
If you want to give them a friendly wave and call out something like,
"Ride on the right" as they *pass by*, that's cool. *Stopping* them to
explain all the arguments against their behavior OTOH is ill-advised
and arrogant regardless of how pure your motives are.

Did I ever say "stop?" Generally how it works is I'll say something like
"Hey!" and they stop on their own or keep going. If they keep going, I
follow. That's the sense of "stop" I meant. I don't touch them or their
bike or impede it in any manner.

--
fneep

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

I knew this was coming. Why would I stick to the letter of the law when
the law was made for the safety of motorists and with total disregard
for the safety of bicyclists.

The legal reason against wrong way riding is the weakest. You have a
valid point, but you're also advocating breaking the law. Catch 22.

--
fneep

Kevan Smith said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

I knew this was coming. Why would I stick to the letter of the law when
the law was made for the safety of motorists and with total disregard
for the safety of bicyclists.

The legal reason against wrong way riding is the weakest. You have a
valid point, but you're also advocating breaking the law. Catch 22.

Totally.
Today I went for a ride levee hopping where the MUP trails are paved
walkways/rideways for general use. On the way there I ran into (almost)
3 wrong way riders in one block. 1. White female about 25 riding about
8MPH. 2. White male about 14 riding same, about 8 MPH. 3. White male,
about 25, riding a 24" bike with the seat all the way down, trying to
look cool, ride, smoke, and yak on a cell phone. I was the only one
riding right way. In their defense it is highly dangerous to ride on the
other side where I met them since there is a freeway on/off ramp combo
and people come off still doing 55 sometimes so a bike could get run
down real easy on that side.
Catch 22. Legal and maybe dead, or illegal and safe from the freeway
exiting crowd.
Bill Baka

Kevan Smith said:

Did I ever say "stop?"

As a matter of fact, yes you did. In what I believe was your second
post to this thread you wrote:
"I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a
calm
and rational manner then let them decide."

Quoted message said:

Generally how it works is I'll say something like
"Hey!" and they stop on their own or keep going. If they keep going, I
follow. That's the sense of "stop" I meant. I don't touch them or their
bike or impede it in any manner.

You are splitting already split hairs if you're seriously claiming that
you aren't *really* stopping them. Suppose you were walking down the
street and someone shouted, "hey!" at you. You'd stop to see if you
knew them. Suppose you didn't stop when they shouted "hey!" at you and
they reversed directions to follow you. You'd either stop to find out
what they wanted or you'd run like hell. Whether you stop when they
shout, stop when they begin following you, or run like a scared rabbit,
they have definitely interfered with your progress. Your hairsplitting
isn't clever argument. It's simply weaseling to avoid admitting the
obvious.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years
to turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve
into pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and
since there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have
to sit through the whole light cycle.

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk. I understand the
temptation -- the light takes forever, so you turn left up the sidewalk
(or bike lane, Dearborn has bike lanes on both sides), and then when the
traffic clears, you cross over the 5 or 6 empty lanes and get on the bike
lane on the proper side. But Dearborn, in my experience, is a dangerous
street when it comes to turning cars. I'm a relatively good girl, and
still, I have had several close encounters with turning autos on Dearborn,
plus the one time I've actually been hit was someone turning into
Chinatown while I was riding on Dearborn.

Where did the whole "wrong way" concept originate? I remember being told by
people to ride facing traffic when I was a kid, but I realized it didn't
make sense to me. I see it all the time here. The riders tend to be of the
DUI variety, but who told them to ride facing traffic?

"Kevan Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

The only thing that'll educate them is their own
humbling experiences. Sometimes we've just gotta leave people to
learn things the hard way.

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

--

I pass a guy every day who is riding his bike on the sidewalk RIGHT NEXT TO
THE BIKE LANE. Don't get it.

"Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kevan Smith said:

If that means letting them place their lives and limbs in peril, I
disagree. Even if met with hostility, we need to inform people of safer
ways to ride. I can tolerate most sidewalk riders, but I _always_ make
it a point to stop and talk to wrong way cyclists on the road. I have
never gotten in a fight about it, but just laid out some facts in a calm
and rational manner then let them decide.

"Letting" them place themselves in peril? You can "tolerate" most
sidewalk riders? Your arrogance is showing, Kev. If you really *stop*
people on the street to "educate" them (something I must say I doubt
you truly do) it's only a matter of time before you get "educated" on
the inadvisability of doing so.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Well, I don't think Kevan's being as bad as that. I've also told cyclists
they were going the wrong way when I was forced to veer way into the lane to
avoid hitting them. Perhaps these people just don't know they're doing the
wrong thing. I see them pushing the "Walk" button and walking their bikes in
the crosswalk, looking at me like I'm crazy for waiting in the lane like the
cars.

Bob said:

Kevan Smith said:

Yeah, I don't think it is quite that verifiably dangerous. My general
point is that I think wrong way cycling is something that actively
endangers life and limb. Apparently, some here disagree. I can't come
around to that point of view.

I'll try one last time and then give it up as hopeless.
I don't think anyone here disagrees with you that, generally speaking,
riding against the flow of traffic increases the likelihood of
colliding with motor vehicles. Where some like myself disagree with you
is on the question of whether or not it is desirable, productive, or
even polite to *stop* wrong way riders to explain- calmly or otherwise-
that they are increasing their risk level by acting in such an
unexpected fashion.
If you want to give them a friendly wave and call out something like,
"Ride on the right" as they *pass by*, that's cool. *Stopping* them to
explain all the arguments against their behavior OTOH is ill-advised
and arrogant regardless of how pure your motives are.

Leaving aside the personal safety aspects of stopping someone, there is
something which seems to be ignored by the "MYOB" crew.

Many wrong-way cyclists are different than the motorists or bicyclists
crashing stop signs, etc. That is, many WWCs don't even know what side
of the road they're supposed to be on - let alone why! Given that,
telling them about their mistake might make a difference. It's not so
much yelling at them for being bad; it's educating.

I've said something to many WW cyclists. Reactions varied, of course,
but I've had quite a few change to the other side of the road. I've
had some say "I didn't know that." I've known kids I passed on my
regular commute who began riding correctly (and continued riding
correctly) after I talked briefly to them.

The few who spouted expletives aren't likely to change, but it cost me
nothing to try.

The other aspect that bears repeating is this: a wrong-way rider is
indeed a hazard to a a cyclist riding correctly. Certainly, on my
regular route home, it's to my advantage to reduce the odds of a
head-on collision - especially since I often ride it at night, and
those guys won't likely have lights.

- Frank Krygowski

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob said:

You are splitting already split hairs if you're seriously claiming that
you aren't *really* stopping them. ....

Whatever. I do not physically force anyone to stop. That's a very clear
sentence devoid of hairsplitting.

--
fneep

Gooserider said:

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So, I'm sitting at a light on one of the streets in Chinatown at Dearborn.
It's one of these long, long, lights, the sort that take 90 million years
to turn green. I'm not joking, we could shed our physical forms and evolve
into pure energy beings in the time it takes the light to turn green, and
since there were so many cars ahead of me, I missed the light, so I have
to sit through the whole light cycle.

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk. I understand the
temptation -- the light takes forever, so you turn left up the sidewalk
(or bike lane, Dearborn has bike lanes on both sides), and then when the
traffic clears, you cross over the 5 or 6 empty lanes and get on the bike
lane on the proper side. But Dearborn, in my experience, is a dangerous
street when it comes to turning cars. I'm a relatively good girl, and
still, I have had several close encounters with turning autos on Dearborn,
plus the one time I've actually been hit was someone turning into
Chinatown while I was riding on Dearborn.

Where did the whole "wrong way" concept originate? I remember being told by
people to ride facing traffic when I was a kid, but I realized it didn't
make sense to me. I see it all the time here. The riders tend to be of the
DUI variety, but who told them to ride facing traffic?

I think it's a carry-over from the 'walk facing traffic' we all
learned early on. At least that is the reason I've been told once or
twice when I asked a wrong-way rider why they were riding illegally.

Mike

PS- If all of us reading this thread would send a letter to the editor
for our local newspapers on this subject it could have an impact.

Quoted message said:

...
The few who spouted expletives aren't likely to change, but it cost me
nothing to try.

The other aspect that bears repeating is this: a wrong-way rider is
indeed a hazard to a a cyclist riding correctly. Certainly, on my
regular route home, it's to my advantage to reduce the odds of a
head-on collision - especially since I often ride it at night, and
those guys won't likely have lights.

- Frank Krygowski

The attitudes of those who object may be similar to some attitudes about
helmets and other things. They've never been hurt by riding the wrong
way, so it must be okay.

"catzz66" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

...

They've never been hurt by riding the wrong way, so it must be okay.

Actually, I'm not so sure of that. When I first started riding to work, I
used the sidewalk of a major arterial. I would have close calls frequently
with motorists, much more frequently than I do now taking parallel minor
arterial and riding on the shoulder. My conclusion then was, "cycling is
dangerous", not "riding on the sidewalk is dangerous". Wrong way riders
might use the same logic.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

"Gooserider" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I pass a guy every day who is riding his bike on the sidewalk RIGHT NEXT
TO THE BIKE LANE. Don't get it.

I must confess I will scoot along a sidewalk while waiting for a break in
traffic to cross to the right side.

catzz66 said:

Quoted message said:

...
The few who spouted expletives aren't likely to change, but it cost me
nothing to try.

The other aspect that bears repeating is this: a wrong-way rider is
indeed a hazard to a a cyclist riding correctly. Certainly, on my
regular route home, it's to my advantage to reduce the odds of a
head-on collision - especially since I often ride it at night, and
those guys won't likely have lights.

- Frank Krygowski

The attitudes of those who object may be similar to some attitudes about
helmets and other things. They've never been hurt by riding the wrong
way, so it must be okay.

In each case, further learning can determine which attitude is correct.

- Frank Krygowski

Claire Petersky said:

Some guy is riding the wrong way up the sidewalk.

Which way is "the wrong way up the sidewalk"??

--
"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)