LDL too low???

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on ... atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg)

Huh?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Preston Rich said:

I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
latest serum tests came in at:

TC 126
TG 167
HDL 50
LDL 42
vLDL 33

What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL?

None known.

Quoted message said:

Should I consider
coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
syndrome)?

Would suggest you discuss this with your doctor.

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Sorry. Meant to say "...controlled w/1000 mg. _Metformin_ bid."

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
latest serum tests came in at:

TC 126
TG 167
HDL 50
LDL 42
vLDL 33

What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL? Should I consider
coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
syndrome)?

-Preston

Preston,

Your diabetes dramatically increases your chd risk. A low ldl is good
prevention. You might look into niaspan (increase HDL).

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sorry. Meant to say "...controlled w/1000 mg. _Metformin_ bid."

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
latest serum tests came in at:

TC 126
TG 167
HDL 50
LDL 42
vLDL 33

What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL? Should I consider
coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
syndrome)?

-Preston

Interestingly enough, in the span between this test above and my
immediately prior one, the only change I made was to drink 1 lite beer
daily w/dinner. My HDL went from 42 to 50.

-Preston

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Preston,

Your diabetes dramatically increases your chd risk. A low ldl is good
prevention. You might look into niaspan (increase HDL).

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sorry. Meant to say "...controlled w/1000 mg. _Metformin_ bid."

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
latest serum tests came in at:

TC 126
TG 167
HDL 50
LDL 42
vLDL 33

What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL? Should I consider
coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
syndrome)?

-Preston

Preston Rich said:

I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
latest serum tests came in at:

TC 126
TG 167
HDL 50
LDL 42
vLDL 33

What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL?

Absolutely crazy, what you are doing. Your TC is tooo low. The consequence
of a low TC is a reduced activity profile. Cholesterol is required for the
building of sexual hormones, bone metabolism, aldosterone, bile acids, vitD,
cells...
You have to reduce your medication.

Werner

Preston,

Re: HDL went from 42 to 50 - very good. I got mine to go from 35 to
69 - moderate drinking, eating oily fish every day,over 1

hour aerobic exercise daily, and eating moderate amounts of "good"
fats (olive oil, nuts). Two key numbers for diabetics -

Hba1c and blood pressure. How do you rate on those? Did you see the
AHA article on fish oil capsules and/or oily fish - to

combat high trig you may consume up to 9 capsules a day?
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/21/2747

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Interestingly enough, in the span between this test above and my
immediately prior one, the only change I made was to drink 1 lite beer
daily w/dinner. My HDL went from 42 to 50.

-Preston

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Preston,

Your diabetes dramatically increases your chd risk. A low ldl is good
prevention. You might look into niaspan (increase HDL).

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sorry. Meant to say "...controlled w/1000 mg. _Metformin_ bid."

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
> also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
> latest serum tests came in at:
>
> TC 126
> TG 167
> HDL 50
> LDL 42
> vLDL 33
>
> What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL? Should I consider
> coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
> target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
> syndrome)?
>
> -Preston

Brad--

Sorry for the delayed response. My HbA1c is 5.5 and BP is 100/60.
Boy, that's a LOT of fish oil ;-) I'll smell like a dead grouper ;-)

-Preston

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Preston,

Re: HDL went from 42 to 50 - very good. I got mine to go from 35 to
69 - moderate drinking, eating oily fish every day,over 1

hour aerobic exercise daily, and eating moderate amounts of "good"
fats (olive oil, nuts). Two key numbers for diabetics -

Hba1c and blood pressure. How do you rate on those? Did you see the
AHA article on fish oil capsules and/or oily fish - to

combat high trig you may consume up to 9 capsules a day?
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/21/2747

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Interestingly enough, in the span between this test above and my
immediately prior one, the only change I made was to drink 1 lite beer
daily w/dinner. My HDL went from 42 to 50.

-Preston

[email hidden] (Brad Sheppard) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Preston,

Your diabetes dramatically increases your chd risk. A low ldl is good
prevention. You might look into niaspan (increase HDL).

[email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> Sorry. Meant to say "...controlled w/1000 mg. _Metformin_ bid."
>
>
>
>
> [email hidden] (Preston Rich) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...
> > I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid. I'm
> > also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg). My
> > latest serum tests came in at:
> >
> > TC 126
> > TG 167
> > HDL 50
> > LDL 42
> > vLDL 33
> >
> > What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL? Should I consider
> > coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to better
> > target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
> > syndrome)?
> >
> > -Preston

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > I am a 62 yr. old T2 diabetic controlled w/1000 mg. lipitor bid.

I'm

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > also on a beta blocker w/HCTZ and atorvastatin (Lipitor 10 mg).

My

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > latest serum tests came in at:
> > > > > > TC 126
> > TG 167
> > HDL 50
> > LDL 42
> > vLDL 33
> > > > > > What are the consequences of such a low TC and LDL?

Should I consider

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > coming off the statin and go on a fibrate like gemfibrozil to

better

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> > target my trigs (which sometimes go up to 350-400 w/my metabolic
> > syndrome)?
> > > > > > -Preston

this profile is at goal.

you might consider hs.CRP and homocystiene levels.

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a risk
factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

--
~~~
Patrick Blanchard, M.D., A.B.F.P.
Board Certified in Family Practice

Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:21:21 -0600 in article
<[email hidden]> "Patrick Blanchard, M.D."

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a risk
factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

I'm under impression that the best quality _concentrated_ fish oil products
don't contain measurable amounts of mercury or other pollutants, because
these have been removed in the molecular distillation process.

--
Matti Narkia

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a risk
factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

Buying fish oil labeled "cholesterol free" or "molecularly distilled" is a good
way to avoid contaminants.

Susan

Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:30:03 GMT in article
<[email hidden]> Matti Narkia

Quoted message said:

Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:21:21 -0600 in article
<[email hidden]> "Patrick Blanchard, M.D."

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a risk
factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

I'm under impression that the best quality _concentrated_ fish oil products
don't contain measurable amounts of mercury or other pollutants, because
these have been removed in the molecular distillation process.

See

Impurities in Fish Oil
http://www.iherb.com/mercury.html

"... Molecular distillation is the only method (currently) that can
remove metals, pcbs and other toxins to below detectable levels for
human consumption. ..."

http://www.iherb.com/dha.html

"Purified by Molecular Distillation-"

Fish Oil Comparison
http://www.dr-sears-fishoil.com/compare.asp

"True molecular distillation process removes all man made pollutants
such as PCB's, dioxins and mercury."

--
Matti Narkia

Matti Narkia said:

Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:21:21 -0600 in article
<[email hidden]> "Patrick Blanchard, M.D."

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a
risk factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

I'm under impression that the best quality _concentrated_ fish oil
products
don't contain measurable amounts of mercury or other pollutants, because
these have been removed in the molecular distillation process.

measurable amounts is your key word. this does not mean 'zero'.

--
~~~
Patrick Blanchard, M.D., A.B.F.P.
Board Certified in Family Practice

Susan said:

x-no-archive: yes

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a
risk factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

Buying fish oil labeled "cholesterol free" or "molecularly distilled" is
a good
way to avoid contaminants.

Susan

but not a guarantee.

--
~~~
Patrick Blanchard, M.D., A.B.F.P.
Board Certified in Family Practice

"Patrick Blanchard, M.D." <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

if you are concerned about too much fish oil, then consider a mercury
level, as it can be a contaminant and some studies suggest it to be a risk
factor for promoting atherosclerosis.

I've never seen a report of mercury contamination in fish oil. Mercury should
remain in the muscle tissue and should not be soluble in oil.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Matti Narkia <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

"Purified by Molecular Distillation-"

What the heck is that? Just an advertising slogan?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

(Susan ) said:

Buying fish oil labeled "cholesterol free" or "molecularly distilled" is a good
way to avoid contaminants.

Or lied to.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Jim Chinnis said:

Quoted message said:

"Purified by Molecular Distillation-"

What the heck is that? Just an advertising slogan?

Some fish oil products are not regulated. they can and do say whatever
they please. Truth is not a prerequisite.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap030724.html
Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Thu, 30 Oct 2003 17:47:50 GMT in article
<[email hidden]> Jim Chinnis

Quoted message said:

Matti Narkia <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

"Purified by Molecular Distillation-"

What the heck is that? Just an advertising slogan?

Found with Google:

http://www.onelook.com/?w=molecular+distillation

http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0541577.html

"a vacuum distillation in which the molecules of the distillate reach
the condenser before colliding with one another."

http://www.books.md/M/dic/moleculardistillation.php

http://plastics.about.com/library/glossary/m/bldef-m3492.htm

"Definition: A process for the separation of polymers into fractions
of different molecular weight at the lowest possible temperature to
avoid damage."

http://www.theglassplant.com/asahi/english/products/vacuum/

http://www.popeinc.com/pope/wiped_film.htm

http://www.chelationtherapyonline.com/GarryGordon/KarlLorenResearch/p20.html

"Molecular distillation is the only method (currently) that can
remove metals, pcbs and other toxins to below detectable levels for
human consumption. Most processing keeps the oils at up to 250
degrees C for up to 6 hours under vacuum. We use a molecular
distillation process that takes only 45 seconds at 250 degrees C
under high vacuum. This shortening of the "sit" or "residence" time
for the process greatly improves the quality because it guarantees
that no trans fats are created. Other molecular distillation
processes and steam distillation have the potential to create trans
fats because of the length of time the oil sits at high temperature.

Molecular distillation is also used to concentrate and increase the
levels of EPA and DHA well above the standard 18% EPA and 12% DHA.
Molecular distillation must occur before concentration begins! If
the fish oil is concentrated prior to distillation it will also
concentrate the PCBS's, metals and other toxins significantly
increasing their levels. Therefore it is essential that fish oil be
molecularly distilled prior to concentration.

Please note: The fish oils processed with this technology have very
low levels of impurities between, below 0.005ppm are very safe for
human consumption and are below California's Proposition 65
requirements. It is virtually impossible to remove 100% of all
impurities but we can get them to below detectable levels.

Very low levels of PCB's and Heavy metals, PV (peroxide value) and
Anisidines are the indicators that tell about the purity and quality
of fish oils. High quality oils will have PV's from 1-3.5meq/kg and
Anisidines of 13.5meq/kg or lower. Anisidines are just one aspect of
the oxidative indications and are not as significant as PV.
Anisidines of between 18 or below are also acceptable."

--
Matti Narkia