Difficulty in tire changing

Paul Cassel said:

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field. I can barely get them on
or off in my garage using my 40 cm long tire irons. There is no way I
can do anything for them in the field with my portable tools including
my Crank Bros sliding tire iron.

This can be a problem. When I first started using clincher (normal)
tires, I had an awful experience with one ride, 5 flats, and tires that I
could just barely get off and on. I broke a couple of plastic levers
on that ride.

Basically, tire fit is a function of three things: the tires themselves,
the rims, and the base tape. The rim I had trouble with on the ride from
hell was a Matrix rim. I find Mavics to be much, much better. Tires?
Avocets work well, but I don't have any experience with Conti's.
Currently I use Hutchinson, since I got a great deal on them. They are
reasonably easy to mount.

OK, you don't want to replace your tires, and rims are even more
expensive. Your one hope is to replace the base tape. If you use Velox
or other cloth tape, switching to a plastic one (get a stiff one with some
fiber reinforcement) will give you more room.

Quoted message said:

How do you determine this tire characteristic? Thanks.

Experience.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "It doesn't get any easier, you just go faster." --Greg LeMond
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Paul Cassel said:

I wore out a set of inexpensive ($10 each) road tires very quickly. They
also punctured often. I decided that it’d be cheaper in the long run to
buy better tires which I hoped, would be less susceptible to puncturing.
I live in an area where flats are a part of bicycle riding - so I’m
told by the experienced riders here. That is, unless I’m willing to
install plastic liners and very heavy tubes which will pull the life out
of my road bike, I'm going to flat so I may as well get used to the
idea. I’d rather carry a spare tube, inflator and patch kid than ruin
the road bicycling experience by excessive defenses against flat tires.

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field. I can barely get them on
or off in my garage using my 40 cm long tire irons. There is no way I
can do anything for them in the field with my portable tools including
my Crank Bros sliding tire iron. The old tires flatted often, but came
on and off easily using the Crank Bros tool or the shorty plastic levers
which came in my kit. After wrestling the first Conti 4000 tire on, I
took the second with the wheel to an LBS where the wrench agreed with me
that getting these tires on and off was extremely difficult. It's not
just my technique causing the difficulty.

So I think the Conti’s are useless for me. Before I buy another set of
tires and do (???) with these almost new Conti 4000’s, I’d like to know
what tires I can get on and off easily. I have heavily hooked rims which
make the job even tougher, but it was easily doable using the cheap
tires. Is there some sort of way I can infer ease in changing while
shopping? I’m now looking at Michelin Carbons, but sure don’t want to
spend real money again on a tire I can’t mount / dismount in the field.

How do you determine this tire characteristic? Thanks.

Hi, I had a set of the Continental Attack/Force tires that were really
hard to mount the first time, but they do get easier after the first
time.
There are two tools that might work, the one, only if you are using
700x23, the Kool Stop, with all sizes.
Here, take a look:
http://www.thebiketool.com/en/

I just posted the first place I found with them, so no endorsement for
Airbomb, I got mine at my LBS:
http://store.airbomb.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=TL4022

A tire to consider is the Continental Ultra Gatorskin, it has a wire
bead, goes on reasonably well and has good flat resistance. I've got
almost 5000 flat free miles, on a set.

Those Conti 4000 look interesting, but are definitely on the pricey
side.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Paul Cassel said:

How do you determine this tire characteristic? Thanks.

Check:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/tires-clincher/PLS_2489crx.aspx

If a tire is hard to mount, it will usually get mentioned a few times.

Paul Cassel said:

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field.

Quoted message said:

I’d like to know what tires I can get on and off easily. I have heavily
hooked rims which make the job even tougher, but it was easily doable
using the cheap tires.

Since your previous tires went on and off easily, I suspect the problem has
more to do with the tire than the rim. Kevlar bead tires will get easier to
mount over time. Putting talcum powder on the bead can also help. In
general, wider tires are easier to get on/off. My inexpensive IRC Road
Winners (700 x 25mm actual width) with wire bead and kevlar belt are much
easier to install than the 700 x 23 Michelins (kevlar bead) I used
previously, and very flat resistant.

Art Harris

Paul Cassel said:

I wore out a set of inexpensive ($10 each) road tires very quickly. They
also punctured often. I decided that it’d be cheaper in the long run to
buy better tires which I hoped, would be less susceptible to puncturing.
I live in an area where flats are a part of bicycle riding - so I’m
told by the experienced riders here.

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field.

Expensive tires offer no additional protection against punctures. I'd
take the $50 tires back, demand a refund, and use it to buy some $10
tires (personally, I'd splurge on some $12-15 tires, but I'm crazy that
way).

They're not "excellent" tires if you can't use them.

David L. Johnson said:

Paul Cassel said:

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field. I can barely get them on
or off in my garage using my 40 cm long tire irons. There is no way I
can do anything for them in the field with my portable tools including
my Crank Bros sliding tire iron.

This can be a problem. When I first started using clincher (normal)
tires, I had an awful experience with one ride, 5 flats, and tires that I
could just barely get off and on. I broke a couple of plastic levers
on that ride.

Basically, tire fit is a function of three things: the tires themselves,
the rims, and the base tape. The rim I had trouble with on the ride from
hell was a Matrix rim. I find Mavics to be much, much better. Tires?
Avocets work well, but I don't have any experience with Conti's.
Currently I use Hutchinson, since I got a great deal on them. They are
reasonably easy to mount.

OK, you don't want to replace your tires, and rims are even more
expensive. Your one hope is to replace the base tape. If you use Velox
or other cloth tape, switching to a plastic one (get a stiff one with some
fiber reinforcement) will give you more room.

The cheap tires which I could get on and off were Huchtinsons. I really
liked those tires for costing $10 and then easy to use, but they did
wear our very fast.

I do wish to replace my tires. My rims are those over the top expensive
types which came on my used bike. I also do have plastic tape. The
problem getting the tool under the tire is that it feels as if the tire
is a mm or two too small in diameter. I know that's silly, but it feels
that way.

I despair about these tires stretching as they have some sort of super
better than Kevlar bead which is part of why they cost so much. I'm sure
these are wonderful tires for guys with sag wagons along, but me, I'm a
loner out there in the desert and 100% on my own as far as getting back.

These rims are Campy.

-paul

Jeff Starr said:

Paul Cassel said:

I wore out a set of inexpensive ($10 each) road tires very quickly. They
also punctured often. I decided that it’d be cheaper in the long run to
buy better tires which I hoped, would be less susceptible to puncturing.
I live in an area where flats are a part of bicycle riding - so I’m
told by the experienced riders here. That is, unless I’m willing to
install plastic liners and very heavy tubes which will pull the life out
of my road bike, I'm going to flat so I may as well get used to the
idea. I’d rather carry a spare tube, inflator and patch kid than ruin
the road bicycling experience by excessive defenses against flat tires.

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field. I can barely get them on
or off in my garage using my 40 cm long tire irons. There is no way I
can do anything for them in the field with my portable tools including
my Crank Bros sliding tire iron. The old tires flatted often, but came
on and off easily using the Crank Bros tool or the shorty plastic levers
which came in my kit. After wrestling the first Conti 4000 tire on, I
took the second with the wheel to an LBS where the wrench agreed with me
that getting these tires on and off was extremely difficult. It's not
just my technique causing the difficulty.

So I think the Conti’s are useless for me. Before I buy another set of
tires and do (???) with these almost new Conti 4000’s, I’d like to know
what tires I can get on and off easily. I have heavily hooked rims which
make the job even tougher, but it was easily doable using the cheap
tires. Is there some sort of way I can infer ease in changing while
shopping? I’m now looking at Michelin Carbons, but sure don’t want to
spend real money again on a tire I can’t mount / dismount in the field.

How do you determine this tire characteristic? Thanks.

Hi, I had a set of the Continental Attack/Force tires that were really
hard to mount the first time, but they do get easier after the first
time.
There are two tools that might work, the one, only if you are using
700x23, the Kool Stop, with all sizes.
Here, take a look:
http://www.thebiketool.com/en/

I just posted the first place I found with them, so no endorsement for
Airbomb, I got mine at my LBS:
http://store.airbomb.com/Itemdesc.asp?ic=TL4022

I've given them an order. If this works well, so much the better, but it
still leaves getting the tire off a bit of a go. I can't even come close
to removing these tires using plastic levers or my Crank Bros tool.

Quoted message said:

A tire to consider is the Continental Ultra Gatorskin, it has a wire
bead, goes on reasonably well and has good flat resistance. I've got
almost 5000 flat free miles, on a set.

I asked here about tires before I bought those & was recommended the
Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of my
pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

Here I've landed in a strange problem area where many on this board will
have a good shot at laughing at my predicament. I boubht a used bike
with excellent high end gruppos and wheels for what I could buy a new
bike which would be appropriate to my being a new guy riding.

The fancy components sort of have me trapped. I'd feel bad strapping on
heavy tubes and tires onto my exquisitely lightweight aero wheels thus
negating the value of these wheels. The irony is that I lose the benefit
of heavy duty practice tires but retain the demerit of fragile wheels.
Yes, it's all in my head, but I can't bring myself to 'ruin' the bike by
using pedestrian tires / tubes on it. So instead I bought a cheap set of
slicks for my mountain bike, mounted them, and am riding that while I
ponder how to get my road bike back on the road.

Quoted message said:

Those Conti 4000 look interesting, but are definitely on the pricey
side.

My friend had a set of Conti's of a previous generation. He got 4k
miles. If these had worked for me for that long, they'd have been cheap,
but it seems that they won't have a chance.

-paul

Ron Ruff said:

Paul Cassel said:

How do you determine this tire characteristic? Thanks.

Check:
http://www.roadbikereview.com/cat/wheels/tires-clincher/PLS_2489crx.aspx

If a tire is hard to mount, it will usually get mentioned a few times.

<sigh> I did check there but the tire wasn't even listed. I really am
much too inexperienced to go roaming off onto the cutting edge of things
bicycle, but I did. Now it looks like I'm going to pay the $100 price
for having gone into new territory.

I guess there is an entry cost to every sport. I'm paying mine. At its
worst, it won't be nearly as close to what I've paid for sailing
experience.

-paul

Arthur Harris said:

Paul Cassel said:

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field.

Quoted message said:

I’d like to know what tires I can get on and off easily. I have heavily
hooked rims which make the job even tougher, but it was easily doable
using the cheap tires.

Since your previous tires went on and off easily, I suspect the problem has
more to do with the tire than the rim. Kevlar bead tires will get easier to
mount over time. Putting talcum powder on the bead can also help. In
general, wider tires are easier to get on/off. My inexpensive IRC Road
Winners (700 x 25mm actual width) with wire bead and kevlar belt are much
easier to install than the 700 x 23 Michelins (kevlar bead) I used
previously, and very flat resistant.

Thanks Art. These new tires boast having some sort of bead and carcass
material which is even stronger / stiffer than Kevlar. That was what got
me the idea that it's combine the flat resistance of the Armadillo with
decent riding performance. Per my other post, and probably to your
amusement, I'm trapped by my overpriced wheels into using fairly light
tires / tubes.

My optimism was supported for the first few rides, but then I got a flat
and then a second flat on the same ride. The second flat was more than
the sealant could handle necessitating a new tube which I couldn't do in
the field. Thus I walked back again.

I'll check the roadbikereview and look to wire beads next time. I
thought wire beads would be tougher than aramid. I also have a 20 front
23 rear tire which makes things even tougher, it seems. I did that
because the original owner used that so I figured there must be a reason.

Live and learn. I hope this is the last expensive lesson I need to
learn. Previously I learned my chain has a huge owner's manual and I
better learn to maintain it because the cassette costs over $300 to
replace if I don't get it right. <sigh>

-paul

Roger Moss said:

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
. It's not

Quoted message said:

just my technique causing the difficulty.

This may be stating the obvious, but are you seating the rest of the tyre
bead right down in the well of the wheel when you attempt to lift a section
over the rim to get things started? I try to avoid tyre levers altogether,
as they can all too easily pinch the tube - mostly I can remove/replace a
tyre without resorting to them. Takes a little practice, but eventually the
technique comes.

I doubt one can do this with these tires. I was almost able to do that
with other road tires can can on my wider slicks I put on the mountain
bike. The LBS which mounted the 20 mm tire used some sort of
commerercial device mounted to the floor.

I will check my technique carefully to make sure the opposing bead is
all the way down in the well which may make mounting easier. However, I
can't dismount these tires with the smaller levers appropriate to
carrying with me nor can I do it with the Crank tool. Perhaps moving the
bead down will help here. I can only try later on. Thanks for the tip.
BTW, I'm terrible at tires both here and in motorcycles. There is
something about tires and me which doesn't click.

Quoted message said:

Watch the guys in the car tyre shops and if they know their craft you'll see
them popping the bead down into the well as far around the wheel as
possible, just leaving the section they'll be lifting over the rim. Since
most car tyres are tubeless. levers generally don't pose too much of a
threat, but if the rest of the bead isn't seated in the well then brute
force on a long lever can wreck the bead...

Good luck, and watch out for your thumbs :-)

All the tire shops I've seen use motorized tools which work like the
Crank tool. They spin around an axis forcing the bead onto the rim. I
can't remember seeing a commercial shop using anything but these tools.
Perhaps your area of the world is different.

I sure like the idea that I can do this w/o tools. I suspect I'd have
fewer pinched tubes if I could.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

Live and learn. I hope this is the last expensive lesson I need to
learn. Previously I learned my chain has a huge owner's manual and I
better learn to maintain it because the cassette costs over $300 to
replace if I don't get it right. <sigh>

$300 cassette???

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

Peter Cole said:

Paul Cassel said:

I wore out a set of inexpensive ($10 each) road tires very quickly.
They also punctured often. I decided that it’d be cheaper in the long
run to buy better tires which I hoped, would be less susceptible to
puncturing. I live in an area where flats are a part of bicycle riding
- so I’m told by the experienced riders here.

So I bought, based on some ads, a set of Continental 4000 tires at a
brutal $50 apiece. The problem with these otherwise excellent tires is
that I can’t get them on and off in the field.

Expensive tires offer no additional protection against punctures. I'd
take the $50 tires back, demand a refund, and use it to buy some $10
tires (personally, I'd splurge on some $12-15 tires, but I'm crazy that
way).

They're not "excellent" tires if you can't use them.

These tires boasted a belt stronger than Aramid which is why I thought
they'd be less punctured. Carbons say the same thing, almost.

I'd love to return them, but I can't in good conscious. They have over
100 miles on them, don't look new any more and after all, it's not the
vendor's negligence that I bought tires I can't get on or off. It's my
responsibility. The vendor made no representations whatsoever about that.

I may put a disclosure on them, then try to sell them at the local bike
swap we have each spring. My friend, the ex bike racer, can get these on
and off, I'm sure, but he won't use tires narrower than 28's any more.
His racing days are over & he's into utility and comfort now. He thinks
my light bike a laugh riot.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

I asked here about tires before I bought those & was recommended the
Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of my
pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

The Continental Ultra GatorSkin rolls and feels pretty much like
high-performance clinchers. It may be cheaper and slightly heavier than
the light-weight "racing" tyres, but it doesn't make any real difference
in performance. In the latest issue of the German magazine "Tour" there's
a test of 23-mm clinchers, and reportedly the Ultra GatorSkin had a
reasonably low rolling resistance - Lower than for example Continental
Grand Prix 3000 (!). I haven't read the issue myself yet, but
supposedly the Grand Prix 3000 had pretty high rolling resistance
compared to most other tyres in the test.

The Ultra GatorSkin is an excellent deal for a training tyre.

-as

Gooserider said:

I have changed lots of tires, and the only ones that were difficult are
Conti Ultra 3000s. I got one mounted with great difficulty, and the other
just wouldn't go. I had to bring the wheel to the LBS and they broke out
their giant tire lever. I think it's a function of the wire bead more than
anything. I recently mounted a pair of Conti Top Touring 2000s with Kevlar
bead, and they went on in about 5 minutes. No sore fingertips, and not even
a lever to put them on.

Yep. The LBS I went to had some huge machine which it used to get the
front 20 mm tire on after the guy struggled with the normal mounting
technique and also blew a tube or two in the process.

So I guess Conti Ultra 4000's follow in the tradition. Well, per this
thread, I'm eating $100 in tires and ordering some new ones. What a
*#&*#& deal. Owell.

-paul

Antti Salonen said:

Paul Cassel said:

I asked here about tires before I bought those & was recommended the
Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of my
pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

The Continental Ultra GatorSkin rolls and feels pretty much like
high-performance clinchers. It may be cheaper and slightly heavier than
the light-weight "racing" tyres, but it doesn't make any real difference
in performance. In the latest issue of the German magazine "Tour" there's
a test of 23-mm clinchers, and reportedly the Ultra GatorSkin had a
reasonably low rolling resistance - Lower than for example Continental
Grand Prix 3000 (!). I haven't read the issue myself yet, but
supposedly the Grand Prix 3000 had pretty high rolling resistance
compared to most other tyres in the test.

They did. They excel in puncture resistance and.... ease of mounting.

Quoted message said:

The Ultra GatorSkin is an excellent deal for a training tyre.

Agree they are excellent (training) tyres, but they are not all that
cheap though (32 euro according to TOUR magazine).

Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

dvt said:

Paul Cassel said:

Live and learn. I hope this is the last expensive lesson I need to
learn. Previously I learned my chain has a huge owner's manual and I
better learn to maintain it because the cassette costs over $300 to
replace if I don't get it right. <sigh>

$300 cassette???

Yeah. It's Ti.

Antti Salonen said:

Paul Cassel said:

I asked here about tires before I bought those & was recommended the
Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of my
pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

The Continental Ultra GatorSkin rolls and feels pretty much like
high-performance clinchers. It may be cheaper and slightly heavier than
the light-weight "racing" tyres, but it doesn't make any real difference
in performance. In the latest issue of the German magazine "Tour" there's
a test of 23-mm clinchers, and reportedly the Ultra GatorSkin had a
reasonably low rolling resistance - Lower than for example Continental
Grand Prix 3000 (!). I haven't read the issue myself yet, but
supposedly the Grand Prix 3000 had pretty high rolling resistance
compared to most other tyres in the test.

The Ultra GatorSkin is an excellent deal for a training tyre.

How tough is it to mount / dismount? I sure don't want to repeat my
previous experience and the Conti name has a bit of a stink on it to me.
I'm not willing to bet these tires will never flat.

IMO, any bicycle tire needs to be fairly easy to get on and off or what
the heck good is it? Until these Conti's, I never had an issue with
bicycle tires so I never thought to ask.

-paul

Lou Holtman said:

Antti Salonen said:

Paul Cassel said:

I asked here about tires before I bought those & was recommended the
Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of
my pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

The Continental Ultra GatorSkin rolls and feels pretty much like
high-performance clinchers. It may be cheaper and slightly heavier than
the light-weight "racing" tyres, but it doesn't make any real difference
in performance. In the latest issue of the German magazine "Tour" there's
a test of 23-mm clinchers, and reportedly the Ultra GatorSkin had a
reasonably low rolling resistance - Lower than for example Continental
Grand Prix 3000 (!). I haven't read the issue myself yet, but
supposedly the Grand Prix 3000 had pretty high rolling resistance
compared to most other tyres in the test.

They did. They excel in puncture resistance and.... ease of mounting.

Quoted message said:

The Ultra GatorSkin is an excellent deal for a training tyre.

Agree they are excellent (training) tyres, but they are not all that
cheap though (32 euro according to TOUR magazine).

The LBS has them for U$34. I'm willing to pay that and am encouraged
that they roll well. HOw tough are they to mount / dismount? I'm not
believing that they'll never flat.

-paul

Paul Cassel said:

Conti Gatorskins. The LBS which had them said they'd ruin the ride of my
pricey bike with its ultra modern wheels.

They didn't really say that, did they? BTW, how much performance difference
did you notice between the $10 cheapies you had originally, and the $50
Contis?

Quoted message said:

I bought a used bike with excellent high end gruppos and wheels

Quoted message said:

The fancy components sort of have me trapped. I'd feel bad strapping on
heavy tubes and tires onto my exquisitely lightweight aero wheels thus
negating the value of these wheels.

Ah, now I remember. You're the guy who liked the look of your boutique
wheels even if they weren't durable. I suggest you get some practical tires
that you can at least remove if you get a flat. I really don't see the point
of the 20mm front tire. What do you think that's doing for you?

Art Harris