Fitting Bikes

There are basic comparisons/measures that are made prior to purchase to eliminate obviously poorly
sized frames. Frames come in a range of styles characterized by these that 'confuse' you. Head tube
angles may produce a bike unrideably twitchy, for instance, or allow a pedaling foot to touch a
turned front tire.

But yes, after purchase and while still under warranty for satisfaction the LBS should fit the bike.
How well this is done is very much a measure of the LBS's competence. Find a shop that has
demonstrated its care by having a 'fit kit' on site.

I am sorry to hear of your abuse. Globalism ((archly)) sucks when American big-box stores' attitude
is exported to France.

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote in part in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Back from England now where I had a hired bike, smaller, lighter and more primitive than the one I
use in France.

Quoted message said:

So here's my question. Is there ever a point in the transaction of buying a cycle that involves
getting it properly fitted by a knowledgeable mechanic? Because even if I bought my bike at the
supermarket, it was in the special, bicycle shop annexe, and it still is under guarantee. I'd be
perfectly happy to pay good money for a proper and thorough fitting. I haven't the first clue
about angles and heights and relationships and everything I read about it - I now have Forrester
and have visted Sheldon Brown - just confuses me further and seems harder than any Maths class
ever was. But is this a service that exists on the market?

Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France

I should mention we're talking two different shops. The LBS sells "upmarket" cycles that are
thoroughly unsuited to my needs and cycling profile as well as three times as expensive as the bike
I ride. They sneer every time I go in because they think Dutch utility-style bikes and the kinds of
people who ride them shouldn't exist.

The bike itself comes from the bike annexe of the supermarket. They are not contemptuous there,
since I represent their market and own their product, but they are very unavailable. Even small
repairs take three weeks. Also they are much farther from my home. So I go to the LBS in the hope of
prompter and more customized service for which I am _perfectly_ willing to pay, only to find that my
inexperience outrages their elitism.

Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France

Doug Huffman said:

I am sorry to hear of your abuse. Globalism ((archly)) sucks when American big-box stores'
attitude is exported to France.

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

much farther from my home. So I go to the LBS in the hope of prompter and

more

Quoted message said:

customized service for which I am _perfectly_ willing to pay, only to find

that

Quoted message said:

my inexperience outrages their elitism.

The most obvious solution is to find a different local bike shop. If this is not possible, then the
things you are telling us should be told to the owner of the bike shop. Perhaps a nice letter or a
conversation expressing your concerns with the employees' attitudes and how they are affecting the
profitability of the shop would change how the employees treat you.

Good luck, Buck

Quoted message said:

"Doug Huffman" [email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I am sorry to hear of your abuse. Globalism ((archly)) sucks when American big-box stores' attitude
is exported to France.

Poor customer service and rudeness are not uniquely American attributes. Besides, if you're going to
use stereotypes I wouldn't think the French would have any need to *import* rudeness or a
supercilious attitude. <g>

Regards, Bob Hunt

Quoted message said:

[email hidden]

wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

I have tried several times at the LBS to get them to help me fit the bike better, but they refuse.
They are contemptuous of my supermarket bike. So I can only ask one minor adjustment at a time -
seat forward an inch, 5 euros, seat back an inch, 5 euros.... ---snip---

I'd bet that if you showed up at one of a local bike club's rides there would be plenty of people
happy to help you with such minor adjustments. Failing that, I'd suggest a different LBS. BTW,
moving a saddle a full inch isn't exactly a minor tweak.

Regards, Bob Hunt

Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Back from England now where I had a hired bike, smaller, lighter and more primitive than the one I
use in France.

There are still many basic moves that I am no closer to accomplishing than before I left, but the
Cambridge bike seemed easier, and the targets seemed closer in some respects than on my home bike.

I still absolutely cannot:
1) Look behind me
2) Take even one hand off the handlebar to signal
3) Obviously from 2, ride free-hand
4) Stand on pedals, not even to start (current starting technique consists of slanting bike to the
left so that seat is low enough to get under my [censored], and pushing off on the right pedal; in
UK, I mounted from sidewalk-step on convenient left side of road)

My riding posture weighs very heavily on my hands, which is why I totally lose any semblance of
control if I try to let go. My main weight-bearing point is gone. The seat pitches me forward far
more than on the Cambridge bike. I think this is because the distance between the saddle and the
handlebar is too great, or the handles are too low.

either/or. It could also be that your saddle is slanted too far downwards, thus you are sliding onto
the handlebars...

Quoted message said:

I have tried several times at the LBS to get them to help me fit the bike better, but they refuse.
They are contemptuous of my supermarket bike. So I can only ask one minor adjustment at a time -
seat forward an inch, 5 euros, seat back an inch, 5 euros, pump tires, 5 euros etc (and yes, I
have a bicycle pump, bit they never showed me how to use it and I'm not even sure it they bothered
to sell me the right kind of valve connector). They are most unhelpful about helping me get things
right overall. I can hear them thinking "Ah voila la grosse connasse, qui ne sait meme pas cycler,
et qui vient nous emmerder encore."

That shop is a disgrace. 5 Euros for a minor adjustment? One shudders to think what they would
charge you for something serious, like a bicycle...!

There are a bunch of wrenches who'll do minor stuff like that for no charge, especially if it's a
slow day...surely that's not the only bike shop in your town...?

Heck, ActionBikes here in London (Ludgate Circus) even has a floor pump chained outside the door,
with the necessary pump heads. Far as I can tell, you can just walk up and pump your tyres whenever.

Quoted message said:

Trouble is, if any adjustment is made tightly enough to be able to withstand my weight, then it is
far too tight for me to be able to modify it by myself - I have weak hands. For example, the
forward-back position or angle of the saddle - I cannot loosen that bolt for love or money no
matter what kind of wrench I use, and the one time I did manage to loosen it I couldn't tighten it
enough for the seat to stay straight. That's why I have to keep going back and deal with their
surliness.

Quoted message said:

So here's my question. Is there ever a point in the transaction of buying a cycle that involves
getting it properly fitted by a knowledgeable mechanic?

a good shop will take the time to see that you're comfortable on the bike, make all the necessary
twiddly adjustments, etc.

If you've got a cyclist friend, you might consider bringing him/her along to the shop when you're
bike shopping--to help you out in the fitting/choosing process.

Quoted message said:

Because even if I bought my bike at the supermarket, it was in the special, bicycle shop annexe,
and it still is under guarantee. I'd be perfectly happy to pay good money for a proper and thorough
fitting. I haven't the first clue about angles and heights and relationships and everything I read
about it - I now have Forrester and have visted Sheldon Brown - just confuses me further and seems
harder than any Maths class ever was.

The thing is--it's not about mathematics, really. It's about how you *feel*. Listen to what
your body is telling you: is there too much weight on your hands and wrists? raise the
handlebars, or reduce the reach somehow. pogoing on the pedalstroke? raise the seatpost.
Rocking your hips? lower it.

if getting enough leverage is a problem, use a small length of pipe to fit around the wrench handles
and then use that: the longer the lever, the more torque.

Quoted message said:

But is this a service that exists on the market?

Yes, there are fitting services, and some bike shops offer them. The fitting itself incurs a charge,
which may or may not be taken off the price of a bicycle you actually purchase at the shop. I've
never used these myself, though.

Quoted message said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

So here's my question. Is there ever a point in the transaction of buying a cycle that involves
getting it properly fitted by a knowledgeable mechanic? Because even if I bought my bike at the
supermarket, it was in the special, bicycle shop annexe, and it still is under guarantee.

I don't know much about French consumer law, but I'd say it's reasonable to assume that any bike
sold to you should be of the correct size, and reasonably correctly adjusted. Better bike shops will
spend more time making certain that the fit is good, and will be willing to exchange components such
as stems and saddles to make sure that the bike fits. The disadvantage of buying from a supermarket,
or even from one of the Decathlon/Gosport shops is that the staff may not have the experience to
advise you properly, and it may not be company policy to exchange parts. From your description of
your problem, it sounds as though the bike you have may be too large for you - but it's very hard to
tell without seeing the bike.

Quoted message said:

I'd be perfectly happy to pay good money for a proper and thorough fitting. But is this a service
that exists on the market?

Bike fitting services exist, varying in the complexity of the biometrics they employ, but most cater
for the needs of the racing - or at least sporting - cyclist. Most seem to make too precise a
science of it too: any fitting is just a starting point to adjust according to the individual
preference of the rider. The rules of thumb that apply to fitting a racing bike are different from
those that apply to a more upright position, and the staff at your LBS may have no more - and
probably less - idea of how to make your bike comfortable than you do.

If I were you, I'd approach the shop where you bought the bike at a quiet moment, attempt to find
the most savvy (not necessarily the most senior) member of staff, and try to get him or her to spend
15 minutes or so getting your position within the right ballpark. You should still expect to have to
make further small adjustments. If the adjusting bolts are difficult to loosen and tighten, they may
need lubrication - supermarket bikes are often under-lubricated. You could try using longer-handled
tools, or fit quick-release levers - though these are impractical if you ever leave your bike where
theft may be a problem.

If you're in intramural Paris, Bicloune on rue Froment and Boulevard Beaumarchais are
roadster-friendly, and generally pretty helpful, though busy. You might get them to agree to a
fitting consultation - maybe for a fee, or on condition of a sale.

bicloune.frbicloune.frOpen ↗

Alternatively, if you're ever in the 3e arrondissement, you're welcome to drop by. I'm not an expert
at bike fitting - I know what works for me - but I'd be happy to give my inexpert opinion, and I
have a well-equipped workshop. If not, you might find a helpful local cyclist or an LBS more suited
to your needs via news:fr.misc.transport.velo or the MDB-IDF mailing list (details at
mdb-idf.orglistediff.htmlOpen ↗ )

HTH

James Thomson

"Doug Huffman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

{Elisa's tale of poor service -- IN FRANCE -- snipped due to DH's top-posting.}

Quoted message said:

I am sorry to hear of your abuse. Globalism ((archly)) sucks when

American

Quoted message said:

big-box stores' attitude is exported to France.

How can you drag anti-Americanism into this? She's being treated crappily by a snooty bike shop IN
FRANCE. (The "super market" where she bought the bike at least treats her OK; they're just
incompetent and over-taxed time-wise.)

I recently bought my first road bike from a Trek "super store" here in San Diego. The *only*
salesman who was rude, condescending AND ignored me was a snobby Italian pretty-boy roadie. Guess he
couldn't be seen helping someone in gym shorts, tank top and sandals. (Maybe if they worked on
commission, then he'd have deigned to assist me.)

To the OP (Elisa), I hope you can find a friendlier bike shop (or even a sporting goods store with a
mechanic?) to help you. It does sound like you have some basic fit issues that are preventing you
from fully enjoying your riding.

Bill "France doesn't need America's help with bad attitudes" S.

Sorni said:

How can you drag anti-Americanism into this? She's being treated crappily by a snooty bike shop IN
FRANCE. (The "super market" where she bought the bike at least treats her OK; they're just
incompetent and over-taxed time-wise.)

Agree that dragging anti-American sentiment into this really isn't needed. The French are deservedly
well known for their "attitude", and I'd be surprised if Americans have much to offer them in that
department!

Quoted message said:

I recently bought my first road bike from a Trek "super store" here in San Diego. The *only*
salesman who was rude, condescending AND ignored me was a snobby Italian pretty-boy roadie. Guess
he couldn't be seen helping someone in gym shorts, tank top and sandals. (Maybe if they worked on
commission, then he'd have deigned to assist me.)

Didn't know the Fab lived in San Diego!

Quoted message said:

To the OP (Elisa), I hope you can find a friendlier bike shop (or even a sporting goods store with
a mechanic?) to help you. It does sound like you have some basic fit issues that are preventing
you from fully enjoying your riding.

Bill "France doesn't need America's help with bad attitudes" S.

Got that straight!

SMH

"Stephen Harding" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sorni said:

I recently bought my first road bike from a Trek "super store" here in

San

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Diego. The *only* salesman who was rude, condescending AND ignored me

was a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

snobby Italian pretty-boy roadie. Guess he couldn't be seen helping

someone

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in gym shorts, tank top and sandals. (Maybe if they worked on

commission,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

then he'd have deigned to assist me.)

Didn't know the Fab lived in San Diego!

I thought I was still a little too new to this group to invoke the 'F' word!
🙂

Bill "that sales dude could be a Fabrizio prototype" S.

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Back from England now where I had a hired bike, smaller, lighter and more primitive than the one I
use in France.

Smaller - and did it fit well? It does sound as if your bike might just be too big, and that may be
the entire problem. There's a very easy to use bike fit system at wrenchscience.comwrenchscience.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I still absolutely cannot:
1) Look behind me
2) Take even one hand off the handlebar to signal
3) Obviously from 2, ride free-hand
4) Stand on pedals, not even to start

3 and 4 are not a problem; standing is one of those things that some people just don't do. I never
stand up on the pedals on my everyday bike. OK, I'm teasing - it's a recumbent ;-)

For 1 and 2 - well, if the next para is right then you may well need to change something before you
can make progress.

Quoted message said:

My riding posture weighs very heavily on my hands, which is why I totally lose any semblance of
control if I try to let go.

Which does sound like your bike is too long in the top tube department. Adjustable stems help,
though, you can sit upright and close-to until you get used to things, then move towards a more
evenly balanced position later.

Quoted message said:

I have tried several times at the LBS to get them to help me fit the bike better, but they refuse.

Then they are worthless creeps. Get your revenge by buying a copy of Haynes book of the bicycle, or
similar, and never going there again. Buy your next bike, complete with gold plated Campagnolo, on
the web - and make sure you let them know why.

Bikes are designed to be user-serviceable, and although I frequently overestimate the complexity of
job which Mr/Mrs/Ms Average can undertake (something to do with having changed my first car clutch
aged 16), most jobs on a bike really are quite straightforward.

Quoted message said:

I can hear them thinking "Ah voila la grosse connasse, qui ne sait meme pas cycler, et qui vient
nous emmerder encore."

Ah, the flower of Parisian manhood....

Kick the supercilious gits into touch is my advice.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

E.F. Roselli ecrit:

------et qui vient nous emmerder encore.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for teaching me a new word and to my delight, my Cassell's says: "it's a very coarse
verb, not in decent use". I have my suspicions about the root of that word.

If you have to give them 5 Euros every time they loosen and re-tighten a seat bolt, you must
cast them off and do some basic bicycle things yourself. A good investment would be a night
class for beginners in bicycle maintenance and simple repairs. These are very popular in my
town. I'm just assuming they have such things in France?? I believe learning more about how
your bicycle works, goes hand-in-hand with becoming a better rider. If you can adjust your own
bike for a better fit and comfort, you can accomplish more in a day, than a month of trips back
and forth to a bike shop.

If you could spend some time practicing your riding in a place where there was little or no
traffic, you could improve your handling skills better than where you have to fight crazy city
drivers just for survival.

Steve McDonald

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

I still absolutely cannot:
1) Look behind me
2) Take even one hand off the handlebar to signal
3) Obviously from 2, ride free-hand

I've had problems with these things too not having been on a bike since I was a kid. I've noticed
that when I have too much weight on my hands it is almost impossible to take a hand off the
handlebar or look behind me. First I thought the solution was to sit more upright with a higher
handlebar. Lately I've noticed instead that if I bend more at the waist, ie lean forward down
towards my handlebar, my elbows will be bent instead of stiff and all of a sudden my balance is much
better. There is almost no weight at all on my hands or wrists and it is very easy to signal or look
behind me. Actually when you can release one hand it is even easier to turn your head. This will put
a little more strain on your back but if you do it only for short spells it should not be a problem.

Hope this helps
--
Perre

You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.

Pardon, Je parle français comme une vache espagnole

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can hear them thinking "Ah voila la grosse connasse, qui ne sait meme pas cycler, et qui vient
nous emmerder encore."

What the heck does that mean??? The literal Babelfish translation is-

"Ah veiled the large [censored], who cannot same step cycle, and which still comes us emmerder."

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

Back from England now where I had a hired bike, smaller, lighter and more primitive than the one
I use in France.

Smaller - and did it fit well? It does sound as if your bike might just be too big, and that may
be the entire problem. There's a very easy to use bike fit system at wrenchscience.comwrenchscience.comOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

I still absolutely cannot:
1) Look behind me
2) Take even one hand off the handlebar to signal
3) Obviously from 2, ride free-hand
4) Stand on pedals, not even to start

3 and 4 are not a problem; standing is one of those things that some people just don't do. I never
stand up on the pedals on my everyday bike. OK, I'm teasing - it's a recumbent ;-)

For 1 and 2 - well, if the next para is right then you may well need to change something before
you can make progress.

Quoted message said:

My riding posture weighs very heavily on my hands, which is why I totally lose any semblance of
control if I try to let go.

Which does sound like your bike is too long in the top tube department. Adjustable stems help,
though, you can sit upright and close-to until you get used to things, then move towards a more
evenly balanced position later.

Quoted message said:

I have tried several times at the LBS to get them to help me fit the bike better, but they
refuse.

Then they are worthless creeps. Get your revenge by buying a copy of Haynes book of the bicycle,
or similar, and never going there again. Buy your next bike, complete with gold plated Campagnolo,
on the web - and make sure you let them know why.

Bikes are designed to be user-serviceable, and although I frequently overestimate the complexity
of job which Mr/Mrs/Ms Average can undertake (something to do with having changed my first car
clutch aged 16), most jobs on a bike really are quite straightforward.

Quoted message said:

I can hear them thinking "Ah voila la grosse connasse, qui ne sait meme pas cycler, et qui vient
nous emmerder encore."

Ah, the flower of Parisian manhood....

Kick the supercilious gits into touch is my advice.

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

As a number of posters have pointed out, your bike seems to be too big. The staff at the bicycle
annex of the supermarket may be well-intentioned and deserving of your patronage for that reason,
but the truth is that most supermarkets and department stores do not have a staff that is well
trained in fitting and repairing bicycles.

May I join the chorus of people urging you to find another LBS? There has to be at least one more
shop within reasonable distance of your home, and it can't be any worse than the one you've
described. All the technical expertise in the world isn't worth a fart in a windstorm if the experts
in question won't use their knowledge to help you, the customer.

To answer your question, fitting the bike to the buyer is an integral part of the purchasing
process, and the best measure of a shop's worth is the care and accuracy with which they perform
this task before the customer takes possession of the bike. The supermarket staff may be well
intentioned, but lack the knowledge and inventory to do the job properly. The staff at your LBS may
or may not possess the knowledge, but lack the social skills and professionalism to do the job
properly. It's possible that they would lavish more care, attention, and courtesy on someone who had
spent a few thousand dollars/euros/whatever on a bike from their shop, but a good business treats
all it's customers with equal respect and courtesy. Find a shop that values your patronage and give
them your business.
--
mark

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can hear them thinking "Ah voila la grosse connasse, qui ne sait meme pas cycler, et qui
vient nous emmerder encore."

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

What the heck does that mean??? The literal Babelfish translation is-

"Ah veiled the large [censored], who cannot same step cycle, and which still comes us emmerder."

The lack of accents confuses Babelfish. Without a grave accent on the 'a', voila is the simple past
tense of voiler, to veil (or to buckle). 'Pas' means 'not' in this context, part of the 'ne pas'
pair that makes the clause negative, but Babelfish mistakes it for a noun, meaning 'step' or 'pace'
- like 'faux pas', a false step. 'Meme' needs a circumflex (^) on the first 'e', and means 'same'
(la meme chose - the same thing) or 'even'. 'Encore' can mean 'still', but often means 'again'
('encore une fois' - 'one more time'😉.

So:

"Hey look, that fat [censored] who doesn't even know how to ride a bike, come to [censored] us off again."

James Thomson

Quoted message said:

The lack of accents confuses Babelfish. Without a grave accent on the 'a', voila is the simple
past tense of voiler, to veil (or to buckle). 'Pas' means 'not' in this context, part of the 'ne
pas' pair that makes the clause negative, but Babelfish mistakes it for a noun, meaning 'step' or
'pace' - like 'faux pas', a false step. 'Meme' needs a circumflex (^) on the first 'e', and means
'same' (la meme chose - the same thing) or

'even'.

Quoted message said:

'Encore' can mean 'still', but often means 'again' ('encore une fois' - 'one more time'😉.

So:

"Hey look, that fat [censored] who doesn't even know how to ride a bike, come

to

Quoted message said:

[censored] us off again."

James: Thanks! My daughter (high school sophomore who has picked up French quite nicely at school)
was helping me out with some of it, but sometimes Babelfish is just too much fun not to try, y'know?
However, I have to admit the actual translation is even funnier. Or sadder. I'm really not sure;
this is one of the more unusual threads, especially in context of the original poster's past
offerings here.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

Yesterday I left work a little early in anticipation of the long weekend. This allowed me to do some
experiments in the yard of my workplace which, apart from the inconvenience of letting the whole
world know I'm not at my desk, is a good, safe place to practise cycling maneouvres. My tactic was
to put the seat way down to kiddie level, as when I first started learning. This position is not
comfortable for pedalling, but it let me test cycling with a relative handlebar height much higher
than I currently have.

As I suspected, there was much less pressure on my hands, and I was able to take one off the bars
for a few seconds. I was also able to look, if not behind me, at least briefly to the side. So I
concluded that the handlebar needs to be raised.

Observing the angle of the seat, I find that it is perfectly horizontal along it's lower edge.
However, along its upper, business edge, there is a mighty slope of a good 15 degrees from the
padded rear to the point in the front. Yes, I do have a perpetual uncomfortable sensation of sliding
forward on that seat, no matter how far back I try to seat myself. Also I often feel that I am not
sitting well because this angle tilts me onto my soft parts.

After about half an hour of this practise, I proceded to my supermarket retailer. But the results
were very disappointing. The mechanic seemed to me, not only not very knowledgeable, but seriously
_dim_. First, he told me that the handlebar was already raised to its maximum level and could not
gain any more height. OK, I believe him on that. But when I asked about buying a new handlebar with
a longer stem, his attitude was that there is no such thing in existence since handlebar sizes are
"standardized". He also kept insisting that I needed to _raise_ the seat (it was already back in its
correct position for pedalling) in order to shorten the distance between seat and handlebar - it
doesn't take a degree in geometry to realize that the reverse is true! When I asked him if he knew
of any places in the district which offered a fitting service, he said he had never heard of such a
thing and that bicycles don't need fitting. Finally, he didn't want to change the angle of the seat
because as far as he was concerned, the bottom edge and not the top one was supposed to be
horizontal.

I conclude that my supermarket bike is probably a not very well-concieved assembly line product with
a maximum handlebar height too short in relation to the length of its frame. Odd, because the frame,
with its ultra-easy ankle-high step-through, is very much designed for timid old ladies and most
French women are considerably shorter than me at 5'8".

I had previously had the seat brought forward by the contumacious LBS. Unfortunately, that
setting had not helped me at all - in addition to still falling forwards onto the bars, I now
found that I was too far forward in relation to the pedals which I kept _losing_ in sticky
situations like traffic intersections. That's why I asked them to put it back although it did not
go all the way back to its initial position and the pedals are still slipping out from under my
feet, although less.

So, my tally of this situation is that first, I will experiment with Perre's couterintuitive
suggestion and lean _forward_ towards the bars. Second, I will change the angle of the seat so that
the lower edge tilts up and back.

The third suggestion, that I find another LBS, is much the hardest to follow. Massy is a tiny
commune with one main street, about 1 hour from Paris on the sububurban train called the RER. For
it to have two bicycle retailers in that short space is already remarkable. Of course there are
other bicycle shops, but thereafter they cease altogether to be _local_, and getting there becomes
a major expedition, requiring a Saturday or an afternoon off. I'm told the next town, Palaiseau,
has a retailer called MBK. There is a large Go-Sport at Les Ulis - but that is the same
inaccessible place I have been writing about in my other posts. As for Paris itself, I'm sure it's
full of excellent bicycle shops staffed with enthusiastic experts, but how to get there with
Myrtille? It's way too far to cycle at my current level of ability. I can put the cycle on the RER
- they even have a special car for it, but there are restrictions on the times one can use this
service. Although very practical between suburbs, it isn't practical from suburb to center since
the train goes underground in Paris and getting back above ground requires major feats of portage
over endless flights of stairs.

It is another aspect of French arrogance (global or otherwise) that if you live in the suburbs and
refuse to own and drive a car, why, you are simply a non-person. The whole basis of my cycling
passion is that I _REFUSE_ to join the ranks of polluters in this autumn of my life. Did last week's
forty degree heat fail to convince anyone? What about the forest fires that have ravaged half the
continent? Portugal alone lost the total surface area of Luxembourg in forestation. But socially,
I'm in a very isolated position. Cycling clubs are for sports enthusiasts, not for middle-aged
beginners with a religion of Conservation. Accessibilites all assume availability of a car. LBSs
assume you're an athlete. And France, in marked contrast to the UK (my favorite country, Luigi, how
I envy you), is extremely intolerant of eccentrics and script-breakers.

Elisa Francesca Roselli Ile de France

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

...

Quoted message said:

It is another aspect of French arrogance (global or otherwise) that if you live in the suburbs and
refuse to own and drive a car, why, you are simply a non-person. The whole basis of my cycling
passion is that I _REFUSE_ to join the ranks of polluters in this autumn of my life. Did last
week's forty degree heat fail to convince anyone? What about the forest fires that have ravaged
half the continent? Portugal alone lost the total surface area of Luxembourg in forestation. But
socially, I'm in a very isolated position. Cycling clubs are for sports enthusiasts, not for
middle-aged beginners with a religion of Conservation. Accessibilites all assume availability of a
car. LBSs assume you're an athlete. And France, in marked contrast to the UK (my favorite country,
Luigi, how I envy you), is extremely intolerant of eccentrics and script-breakers.

This paragraph sounds just like much of the U.S.!

--
David Kerber An optimist says "Good morning, Lord." While a pessimist says "Good Lord,
it's morning".

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