Cycle Training Course

Bertie Wiggins said:

Comments and advice
are welcome - this is a pilot project.

Well, I've been a cycle trainer for, oooh, several whole hours now
(finished a 4 day course this afternoon), so with the caveat that
I've obviously not spent too much time doing it "in anger" yet,
some thoughts...

Quoted message said:

Lesson 2 LOOKING, SIGNALLING AND MANOEUVRING
1.B6 carry out a simple bike check;
High v low gear race;

What's that got to do with LSM? If you're entitling lessons, keep
the content as relevant as you cn.

Quoted message said:

Lesson 3 BICYCLE MAINTENANCE

<snip>

Perhaps at too in depth a level for this point. 2 hours of this
could be really quite dull for kids who aren't really enthused
about cycling yet, especially if their attitude to getting their
hands dirty is it's dad's job. I'd be inclined to get them up to
the point where they can get out and break things before worrying
how to mend them in too great a degree of detail. Checking a bike
for safety and being able to reliably and confidently do something
about faults you find are rather different things, and these are
young kids who'll have a vast range of mechanical competence.

Quoted message said:

Lesson 5 JUNCTION TURNS
1.B6 carry out a simple bike check;
Rules of the snake, doubling up at lights and busy junctions;
Manoeuvre group to first drill site;
Recap "look - (wait) signal - check - (wait) manoeuvre" procedure;
2.8 turn right into a major road and left into a minor road;
Manoeuvre group to second drill site;

Strikes me that doubling at at traffic lights and busy junctions is
something that might be better /after/ the stuff in 2.8

Quoted message said:

3.2 how to use junctions controlled by traffic lights;
Feedback session.

Case in point, here we get lights again at 3.2!

Beyond that, my feeling is that the overall structure is sound but
there isn't too much point in detailing things for the whole course
this far out beyond general goals. It is, as you say, a pilot
project, so it will almost certainly require a degree of tweaking
as you go through, so I wouldn't get too hung up on the contents of
lesson 10 until you hve a bit more feel for how the first few have
gone.

Beyond that, best of luck, and best of fun for all concerned!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Well, I've been a cycle trainer for, oooh, several whole hours now
(finished a 4 day course this afternoon), so with the caveat that
I've obviously not spent too much time doing it "in anger" yet,
some thoughts...

Congratulations! I hope you enjoy being a trainer as much as I do!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lesson 2 LOOKING, SIGNALLING AND MANOEUVRING
1.B6 carry out a simple bike check;
High v low gear race;

What's that got to do with LSM? If you're entitling lessons, keep
the content as relevant as you cn.

It's takes a whole 5 min to set up and race. One child has their bike
in their highest gear - another in their lowest gear. We talk about
who might win the race and why. It is there to reinforce the previous
week's teaching about gears. Last term I had identical twins race
each other - I've never known such hot competition!

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
the blisters on her daughter's hand!

Gear use is something that I intend to cover, to a greater or lesser
extent every Level 1B and Level 2 session.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lesson 3 BICYCLE MAINTENANCE

<snip>

Perhaps at too in depth a level for this point. 2 hours of this
could be really quite dull for kids who aren't really enthused
about cycling yet, especially if their attitude to getting their
hands dirty is it's dad's job. I'd be inclined to get them up to
the point where they can get out and break things before worrying
how to mend them in too great a degree of detail. Checking a bike
for safety and being able to reliably and confidently do something
about faults you find are rather different things, and these are
young kids who'll have a vast range of mechanical competence.

Interesting points. As it isn't a Level 2 standard, do you think I
should move the lesson to after the Level 2 assessment, or should I
leave it for a day when the weather is really foul? The difficulty is
booking a room big enough for ten children to take bicycle wheels on
and off at short notice, especially is the weather is foul and games
lessons are moved indoors.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lesson 5 JUNCTION TURNS
1.B6 carry out a simple bike check;
Rules of the snake, doubling up at lights and busy junctions;
Manoeuvre group to first drill site;
Recap "look - (wait) signal - check - (wait) manoeuvre" procedure;
2.8 turn right into a major road and left into a minor road;
Manoeuvre group to second drill site;

Strikes me that doubling at at traffic lights and busy junctions is
something that might be better /after/ the stuff in 2.8

Snaking and moving the group on the road is distinct from the
training. The drill site I usually use for 2.8 and 2.9 is the other
side of the A20 (Lee High Road). To get the group quickly and safely
across they need to double up in the snake.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3.2 how to use junctions controlled by traffic lights;
Feedback session.

Case in point, here we get lights again at 3.2!

Here the children learn to use and cycle through traffic light
controlled junctions solo. Before they were being led through in
pairs.

Quoted message said:

Beyond that, my feeling is that the overall structure is sound but
there isn't too much point in detailing things for the whole course
this far out beyond general goals. It is, as you say, a pilot
project, so it will almost certainly require a degree of tweaking
as you go through, so I wouldn't get too hung up on the contents of
lesson 10 until you hve a bit more feel for how the first few have
gone.

I've already changed my mind about lesson 10 a bit. I have a National
Standards co-instructor and another competent cyclist helping out. To
assess the children at level 3 I will have each child lead a section
of a ride, with me following. Behind me will be the rest of the
trainees, led by my co-instructor and followed by my helper.
Unfortunately, with ten children in the group each child will only be
able to lead for 10 or 15 minutes, so long as they pass a major
junction and take a right turn, I should be able to assess their
ability.

Quoted message said:

Beyond that, best of luck, and best of fun for all concerned!

Thanks for all your comments. I have someone from Transport for
London coming to observe one of my sessions. I don't know which one
yet.

Bertie Wiggins said:

It's takes a whole 5 min to set up and race. One child has their bike
in their highest gear - another in their lowest gear. We talk about
who might win the race and why. It is there to reinforce the previous
week's teaching about gears.

Why not add in a third racer in a middle gear? Otherwise they might
come out thinking in terms of extremes. If the middle gear wins (as
they probably should if you've selected a course to help middle gears!)
then you can start them thinking in terms of (or at least towards)
selecting gears to fit a cadence.

Quoted message said:

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue.

From the kids I see in either windpump mode or continental drift
cadence I can appreciate that...

[maintenance]

Quoted message said:

Interesting points. As it isn't a Level 2 standard, do you think I
should move the lesson to after the Level 2 assessment, or should I
leave it for a day when the weather is really foul?

I'd keep it as a standby for if it's a truly bogging day. While
maintenance in terms of checking something over on a routine basis and
knowing the importance of having things working properly is something
/everyone/ should know and be doing, your actual repairs are actually
non-essential on a bike for the most part. If a typical kid has a
problem and their bike dies while they're out on their own then they can
just call home (or a friend's home) for help, wheel it to a friendly
port or lock up the bike and take a bus or walk. It's not ideal but it
will work in most cases, and I know this because as kids my peers and I
spent a *lot* of time zooming around the neighbourhood on our bikes (I
would guess more than modern kids do) and despite our bikes being far
worse than many of today's, nobody carried toolkits about with them to
do roadside repairs. If you got a puncture you wheeled your bike home
and fixed it there, or your dad fixed it there (or if the whole family
were incompetent then off to the bike shop). For the typical length of
children's journeys it really isn't worth getting into roadside repairs.

So on the one hand actual repairs by kids to their bikes are not
/essential/, and on another finger of the same hand there's plenty of
actual roadcraft skills that *are* essential. Only if you cannot
usefully teach roadcraft do I think that an in depth lesson on being
mechanics is called for.

Having said that, amongst leaders it's vital to be able to do running
roadside repairs on any pupil's bike that gets borked, so that's why I
think such repairs come into the training, but I don't think they're for
actually teaching at this point in the game. For comparison, I've never
come across driving lessons that do as much as show you how to check
fluid levels in an internal combustion engine, or how to change a wheel.

Quoted message said:

The difficulty is
booking a room big enough for ten children to take bicycle wheels on
and off at short notice, especially is the weather is foul and games
lessons are moved indoors.

If it's puncture repair you only need a couple of tubes and a drawing
pin. Make several holes in the tube and use an OHP pen mark to show who
did which repair and then test them in a bowl of water. For chain tool
use you only need a few links of chain. Though again I'll emphasise
this is, IMHO, better as a foul weather alternative. You should be able
to get away with one bike to show something like wheel removal.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all your comments. I have someone from Transport for
London coming to observe one of my sessions. I don't know which one
yet.

Hope it all goes well...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Following on from Bertie Wiggins's message. . .

Get out on the road one way or another ASAP. Many will never have
cycled 2 miles in one go and this can be a big thrill and eye opener.

Hazards, routes etc. i.e. /thinking/ I would say should be part of the
on-road chats. While trainees are getting their breath back, and about
to focus on some road skill you can discuss options you had on the way
there. . .
.. . . and now lets look at *this* situation.

_When trainees have made an initial identification/assessment_ of the
(say) junction _then_ you can show how to handle it. (Conflict &
Consternation ---> Resolution is a very powerful method.) Establish the
problem, _then_ provide the solution not the other way around. While
the trainees are in the playground doing exercises they are just
performing for the teacher - but on the road they should be exercising
their skill and judgement. Example: "Don't cycle in the gutter!" -v-
"Did anybody see the broken glass in the gutter back there ...." Of
course you're aiming for a full-circle when all trainees 'instinctively'
do the right thing without having a debate, but also they have to use
thought and judgement and that is better mixed into all situations not
something added on at the end.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since the statuette business went bust
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Bertie Wiggins said:

<snip>

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
the blisters on her daughter's hand!

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

Thanks for any advice

Regards,
Rudi

Rudi Lutz said:

Bertie Wiggins said:

<snip>

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
the blisters on her daughter's hand!

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

Change them to thumbshifters? My daughter has no problem with them,
though she hasn't tried grip shift.

...d

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:49:42 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

My second suggestion was fingerless gloves.

"Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:49:42 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

My second suggestion was fingerless gloves.

Did it work?

Rudi

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rudi Lutz said:

Bertie Wiggins said:

<snip>

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
the blisters on her daughter's hand!

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal
with
it (other than getting blisters!)

Change them to thumbshifters? My daughter has no problem with them,
though she hasn't tried grip shift.

..d

I suppose I could try that but I her bike (I can check this evening) has
some sort of integral brake and grip shifter set-up (Shimano possibly). So
it would cost to change. If all else fails I might try this.

Thanks for the reply

Rudi

Rudi Lutz said:

Bertie Wiggins said:

<snip>

Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
the blisters on her daughter's hand!

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

I ended up changing them for our daughters to trigger shifters. They
did not have the wrist or grip strength particularly on the front grip
shifter so really struggled. Trigger shifters was not a cheap solution
but it solved all the problems.

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

Rudi Lutz said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rudi Lutz said:

"Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote:

> <snip>
>
> Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a *major*
> issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up on
> the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at home
> to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed me
> the blisters on her daughter's hand!
>

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal
with
it (other than getting blisters!)

Change them to thumbshifters? My daughter has no problem with them,
though she hasn't tried grip shift.

..d

I suppose I could try that but I her bike (I can check this evening) has
some sort of integral brake and grip shifter set-up (Shimano possibly). So
it would cost to change. If all else fails I might try this.

Is it problems on both front and rear? I may have a spare pair from an
old bike[1] that would do, at least for part of the problem.[2] They
are 7-speed.

...d

[1] now achieving nirvana as a cycle trailer..
[2] Yours for a suitable charitable donation that exceeds the cost of
postage.

Tony Raven said:

Rudi Lutz said:

"Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I ended up changing them for our daughters to trigger shifters. They
did not have the wrist or grip strength particularly on the front grip
shifter so really struggled. Trigger shifters was not a cheap solution
but it solved all the problems.

In my experience, the other problem with grip shifters was during the
summer where with the application of sun cream, my daughter's hands
became so slippy that she couldn't move the grip shift to change gear at
the extreme ends of the range.

Her new bike has trigger shifts so problem was solved.

Kennedy

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 10:37:07 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:49:42 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

My second suggestion was fingerless gloves.

Did it work?

I don't know. The course was just 4 weeks long, and it was on the
last lesson, right at the end of term, that the mother came back to me
showing the blisters.

The child has now left the girl, but her brother is still around so I
will see mum again.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rudi Lutz said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rudi Lutz wrote:
> "Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a
> > *major*
> > issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up
> > on
> > the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at
> > home
> > to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed
> > me
> > the blisters on her daughter's hand!
> >
>
> My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal
> with
> it (other than getting blisters!)

Change them to thumbshifters? My daughter has no problem with them,
though she hasn't tried grip shift.

..d

I suppose I could try that but I her bike (I can check this evening) has
some sort of integral brake and grip shifter set-up (Shimano possibly).
So
it would cost to change. If all else fails I might try this.

Is it problems on both front and rear? I may have a spare pair from an
old bike[1] that would do, at least for part of the problem.[2] They
are 7-speed.

..d

[1] now achieving nirvana as a cycle trailer..
[2] Yours for a suitable charitable donation that exceeds the cost of
postage.

Thanks very much for this offer. It is only the front that gives her a
problem, and only when changing back up. I will have a look tonight to see
exactly what the set up is. What type of shifters are you offering? I will
also try the gloves idea.

Rudi

PS And thanks to everyone who has replied.

Rudi Lutz said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Rudi Lutz said:

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Rudi Lutz wrote:
>> "Bertie Wiggins" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> > <snip>
>> >
>> > Last term's level 2 pilot taught me that correct gear use is a
>> > *major*
>> > issue. I had a child with grip shifters who struggled to change up
>> > on
>> > the chainring. I spoke with her mum and asked her to practice at
>> > home
>> > to build up the muscles. Next week mum came back to me and showed
>> > me
>> > the blisters on her daughter's hand!
>> >
>>
>> My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal
>> with
>> it (other than getting blisters!)
>
> Change them to thumbshifters? My daughter has no problem with them,
> though she hasn't tried grip shift.
>
> ..d
>

I suppose I could try that but I her bike (I can check this evening) has
some sort of integral brake and grip shifter set-up (Shimano possibly).
So
it would cost to change. If all else fails I might try this.

Is it problems on both front and rear? I may have a spare pair from an
old bike[1] that would do, at least for part of the problem.[2] They
are 7-speed.

..d

[1] now achieving nirvana as a cycle trailer..
[2] Yours for a suitable charitable donation that exceeds the cost of
postage.

Thanks very much for this offer. It is only the front that gives her a
problem, and only when changing back up. I will have a look tonight to see
exactly what the set up is. What type of shifters are you offering? I will
also try the gloves idea.

I'd have to have a look at them to give a definite answer but I think
they are separate rapidfire under the bar type (not the friction over
the bar type). I wasn't interested in them so they are still attatched
to part of the handlebars, and I didn't take a close enough look to
commit them to memory.

If that fails, then I have a spare unused XT front rapidfire shifter I
am not going to use as it is not trimmable.

...d

Bertie Wiggins said:

The child has now left the girl

What a poetic way of saying that she has grown up :-)

Roos

Roos Eisma said:

Bertie Wiggins said:

The child has now left the girl

What a poetic way of saying that she has grown up :-)

That's the polite way to describe 11 year olds behaving as stroppy
teenagers. ;-)

Bertie Wiggins said:

That's the polite way to describe 11 year olds behaving as stroppy
teenagers. ;-)

That mysterious phase parents go through of being unreasonable,
argumentative and embarrassing to their kids ;-)

--
Tony

"I did make a mistake once - I thought I'd made a mistake but I hadn't"
Anon

David Martin said:

Rudi Lutz wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Thanks very much for this offer. It is only the front that gives her a
problem, and only when changing back up. I will have a look tonight to see
exactly what the set up is. What type of shifters are you offering? I will
also try the gloves idea.

I'd have to have a look at them to give a definite answer but I think
they are separate rapidfire under the bar type (not the friction over
the bar type). I wasn't interested in them so they are still attatched
to part of the handlebars, and I didn't take a close enough look to
commit them to memory.

If that fails, then I have a spare unused XT front rapidfire shifter I
am not going to use as it is not trimmable.

The one off the old bike is an integrated rapidfire (two lever) shifter
and brake lever. Definitely not of the highest quality but the reach on
the brake lever should be adjustable (it has an appropriate screw. The
levers are for canti brakes, not V-brakes. I can send both sides if you
want a matching pair. I'll stick a new bolt in them (if I have one the
right size) which will make them easier to fit.

The XT shifter is a stand-alone one, new out of the box. I was going to
fit it to my commuter bike but didn't because it is not trimmable,
unlike the gripshift.

...d