Cycle Training Course

"Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My daughter (aged 8) has this problem. Any suggestions on how to deal with
it (other than getting blisters!)

Thanks for any advice

Regards,
Rudi

Gloves? That way the risk of blisters is reduced?

Cheers, helen s

Just to say thank you to everyone who responded re my daughter's problems
changing up in the front with grip shifters. The cycle glove solution seems
to have worked, so there is no need for me to replace her current shifters
after all. But I would like to say a special thanks to David martin for his
kind offer of his old spare shifters.

Regards,
Rudi

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:21:52 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just to say thank you to everyone who responded re my daughter's problems
changing up in the front with grip shifters. The cycle glove solution seems
to have worked, so there is no need for me to replace her current shifters
after all.

Excellent! I have added this information to my knowledge database,
and will not hesitate to recommend good quality fingerless gloves the
parents of children who have problems with grip shifters.

Bertie Wiggins said:

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:21:52 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just to say thank you to everyone who responded re my daughter's problems
changing up in the front with grip shifters. The cycle glove solution seems
to have worked, so there is no need for me to replace her current shifters
after all.

Excellent! I have added this information to my knowledge database,
and will not hesitate to recommend good quality fingerless gloves the
parents of children who have problems with grip shifters.

Whilst the advice is generally good I have been training a young lady
who has also been suffering so have been reading this thread with
interest.
I initially recommended fingerless gloves but it made no difference.
I also raised the bars to take weight off the hands.

I only found out today that she has been taking medication for quite a
serious and rare complaint, and a side effect is that it affects joints,
and in particular the wrists.

Of course a parent would be aware of such a situation, but it only went
to show me that you cannot be too careful when giving out general advice
- always include the caveat.

John B

in message <[email hidden]>, Bertie Wiggins

(') said:

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:21:52 +0100, "Rudi Lutz" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Just to say thank you to everyone who responded re my daughter's
problems changing up in the front with grip shifters. The cycle glove
solution seems to have worked, so there is no need for me to replace
her current shifters after all.

Excellent! I have added this information to my knowledge database,
and will not hesitate to recommend good quality fingerless gloves the
parents of children who have problems with grip shifters.

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely to
be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; First they came for the asylum seekers,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not an asylum seeker.
;; Then they came for the gypsies,
;; and I did not speak out because I was not a gypsy...
;; Pastor Martin Niemöller, translated by Michael Howard.

Simon Brooke said:

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely to
be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

While I usually wear gloves, it seems rather ridiculous to call them
"critical safety equipment". What sort of disabling injury are they
likely to prevent? They have saved me from a small amount of skin loss
but it is hard to imagine them achieving much more...

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

Simon Brooke said:

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely to
be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

While I usually wear gloves, it seems rather ridiculous to call them
"critical safety equipment". What sort of disabling injury are they
likely to prevent? They have saved me from a small amount of skin loss
but it is hard to imagine them achieving much more...

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

James Annan said:

Simon Brooke said:

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely to
be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

While I usually wear gloves, it seems rather ridiculous to call them
"critical safety equipment". What sort of disabling injury are they
likely to prevent? They have saved me from a small amount of skin loss
but it is hard to imagine them achieving much more...

When carrying out cycle-training for complete beginners I always
recommend gloves.
Whilst it is quite rare [1], a child or adult who falls on their hands
may suffer a grit-infested scraze that can completely wreck their
enjoyment of riding.

[1] Its only happened to one of my last 20 beginner trainees.

i must agree that "critical safety equipment" is rather an OTT term for
normal cycling.

What next - full body armour?

John B

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely
to be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

While I usually wear gloves, it seems rather ridiculous to call them
"critical safety equipment". What sort of disabling injury are they
likely to prevent? They have saved me from a small amount of skin loss
but it is hard to imagine them achieving much more...

Make a sufficient mess of the tendons in your palm, and you'll never
close your hand again. That's pretty disabling.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
"The result is a language that... not even its mother could
love. Like the camel, Common Lisp is a horse designed by
committee. Camels do have their uses."
;; Scott Fahlman, 7 March 1995

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Simon Brooke said:

I would always treat track mitts as critical safety equipment anyway.
When one falls off a bike it is very often the palm of the hand that
hits the ground first and hardest, and hand injuries while not likely
to be fatal can be very painful and potentially very disabling.

While I usually wear gloves, it seems rather ridiculous to call them
"critical safety equipment". What sort of disabling injury are they
likely to prevent? They have saved me from a small amount of skin loss
but it is hard to imagine them achieving much more...

Make a sufficient mess of the tendons in your palm, and you'll never
close your hand again. That's pretty disabling.

Yeah, and I can see how a millimeter of soft leather will stop that from
happening, in the vanishingly rare event of the situation arising in the
first place.

Does anyone, anywhere, know of a cyclist who received seriously
disabling injuries to the palm of their hand from falling off (as
oppposed to getting a finger trapped between chainring and chain while
cleaning it)? No? Oh, silly me, that just proves how well gloves work!

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

James Annan said:

Yeah, and I can see how a millimeter of soft leather will stop that from
happening, in the vanishingly rare event of the situation arising in the
first place.

Having come off many years ago and as a consequence gone through two
layers of leather (and a layer of gel) on a pair of track gloves[1], I
am somewhat reticent to be risking my hands without. So I tend to ride
a lot more carefully now.

I would be most reticent to dismiss gloves out of hand in the way that
you do. Palm injuries are extremely uncomfortable and potentially
permanent. Whilst I cannot readily find any incidents of permanent hand
damage, I have abraded my palms often enough to know that it is painful
and remains uncomfrotable for long enough to be a debilitating though
minor injury.

One is far more likely to break a bone or sprain a joint than have
severe abrasions. However, it is a lot easier to clean up hands that
have been inside gloves than those that haven't.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone, anywhere, know of a cyclist who received seriously
disabling injuries to the palm of their hand from falling off (as
oppposed to getting a finger trapped between chainring and chain while
cleaning it)? No? Oh, silly me, that just proves how well gloves work!

...d

[1] The rest of me was not a pretty sight either[2]

[2] Even worse than normal.

David Martin said:

James Annan said:

Yeah, and I can see how a millimeter of soft leather will stop that from
happening, in the vanishingly rare event of the situation arising in the
first place.

Having come off many years ago and as a consequence gone through two
layers of leather (and a layer of gel) on a pair of track gloves[1], I
am somewhat reticent to be risking my hands without. So I tend to ride
a lot more carefully now.

I would be most reticent to dismiss gloves out of hand in the way that
you do. Palm injuries are extremely uncomfortable and potentially
permanent.

Oh, stop propping up silly straw men and read what was actually
written. I was objecting to Simon's description of gloves as "critical
safety equipment" which is ridiculous hyperbole. If he'd said the same
thing about helmets he would have been howled down and told he was a
troll. At least for helmets we know that people _do_ suffer serious
head injuries, whether or not helmet have a significant beneficial
effect.

Quoted message said:

Whilst I cannot readily find any incidents of permanent hand
damage, I have abraded my palms often enough to know that it is painful
and remains uncomfrotable for long enough to be a debilitating though
minor injury.

IME the added protection of a typical glove, although better than
nothing, is not really that great. A thin layer of soft leather rips
pretty easily. But given that serious hand injuries don't seem to occur
anyway outside some peoples' fevered imaginations, the point seems
moot.

James

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

[gloves as safety wear]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, James Annan

(') said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Make a sufficient mess of the tendons in your palm, and you'll never
close your hand again. That's pretty disabling.

Yeah, and I can see how a millimeter of soft leather will stop that
from happening, in the vanishingly rare event of the situation arising
in the first place.

I'm not going to argue with you, James. This is probably a topic of as
much irrationality, superstition and gut feeling as helmets, but my
personal irrational superstition makes me feel insecure riding without
gloves.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone, anywhere, know of a cyclist who received seriously
disabling injuries to the palm of their hand from falling off

It's the only injury requiring medical attention I have _ever_ had on a
bike, but a few stitches later all I have left is a minor scar, so mine
isn't even mildly disabling. I'd still rather not repeat it.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Tony Blair's epitaph, #1: Tony Blair lies here.
Tony Blair's epitaph, #2: Trust me.

James Annan said:

David Martin said:

James Annan said:

Yeah, and I can see how a millimeter of soft leather will stop that from
happening, in the vanishingly rare event of the situation arising in the
first place.

Having come off many years ago and as a consequence gone through two
layers of leather (and a layer of gel) on a pair of track gloves[1], I
am somewhat reticent to be risking my hands without. So I tend to ride
a lot more carefully now.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I would be most reticent to dismiss gloves out of hand in the way that
you do. Palm injuries are extremely uncomfortable and potentially
permanent.

Oh, stop propping up silly straw men and read what was actually
written. I was objecting to Simon's description of gloves as "critical
safety equipment" which is ridiculous hyperbole.

I suppose it is ridiculous in that you can pour ridicule on it.
Hyperbole? Somewhat overstated I would agree.

Quoted message said:

If he'd said the same
thing about helmets he would have been howled down and told he was a
troll. At least for helmets we know that people _do_ suffer serious
head injuries, whether or not helmet have a significant beneficial
effect.

Quoted message said:

Whilst I cannot readily find any incidents of permanent hand
damage, I have abraded my palms often enough to know that it is painful
and remains uncomfrotable for long enough to be a debilitating though
minor injury.

IME the added protection of a typical glove, although better than
nothing, is not really that great. A thin layer of soft leather rips
pretty easily. But given that serious hand injuries don't seem to occur
anyway outside some peoples' fevered imaginations, the point seems
moot.

In the situations where you would get serious abrasion injuries, you
are probably more worried about the broken wrists..

Having said that, I have been riding without gloves for my utility
cycling. It just takes longer to wash my hands afterwards.

...d

Simon Brooke said:

I'm not going to argue with you, James. This is probably a topic of as
much irrationality, superstition and gut feeling as helmets, but my
personal irrational superstition makes me feel insecure riding without
gloves.

Used to be the same. Until a couple of years ago I would /never/ ride
without gloves. Was cured of that line of behaviour by the Brompton's
"pick it up and get on with it" feeling, plus a determined effort to
cold-proof my hands a bit more as all that glove wearing had left them
overly sensitive to the cold.

Quoted message said:

It's the only injury requiring medical attention I have _ever_ had on a
bike, but a few stitches later all I have left is a minor scar, so mine
isn't even mildly disabling. I'd still rather not repeat it.

Fair enough, though with typical cycle training speeds I'd be quite
surprised if you couldn't manage anything at least as bad playing tag or
football running on a tarmac playground/street and just tripping up. So
unless we're saying gloves are "critical safety" for any time a kid is
likely to be running fast on a hard surface I'd say the description is
on the same order as helmets being "vital". Though IMHO they're
certainly more likely to be useful to some degree than hats, because
it's natural to break a fall with your hands/arms.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke said:

I'm not going to argue with you, James. This is probably a topic of as
much irrationality, superstition and gut feeling as helmets, but my
personal irrational superstition makes me feel insecure riding without
gloves.

I do a bit, too. I felt the same when I gave up wearing a helmet, but I
soon got over that.

I wear gloves for 90% or more of my riding - all of the "serious
cycling" which these days mostly consists of my commute. But sometimes
when just popping into town, I don't bother, especially if the "current"
set of gloves are getting a bit manky and I can't be bothered finding a
clean pair.

James
--
James Annan
see web pages for email
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/
http://julesandjames.blogspot.com/

Simon Brooke said:

It's the only injury requiring medical attention I have _ever_ had on a
bike, but a few stitches later all I have left is a minor scar, so mine
isn't even mildly disabling. I'd still rather not repeat it.

While the injuries aren't serious, not wearing gloves the other day has
resulted in some minor road rash to both hands (Rather bizarrely on the
back of one thumb and between the other thumb and forefinger). While
this is certainly not "serious", it is causing problems. It makes
gripping some things very uncomfortable and prevents me from running
chain through my hands, a frequent and normal part of my work.

Jon