Trolls and arguments

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that there
is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

This is a discussion group. Alternative treatments by their very
nature have little objective evidence that they really work as they
are often claimed to. So it is reasonable that if someone asserts that
an alternative treatment really works that someone will express
skepticism and ask for some kind of evidence for efficacy.

Do you think that asking for evidence of efficacy is inappropriate
especially when incredible claims are made for various alternative
treatments. For example Hulda Clark claims that she has the cure for
ALL cancers. Should we question this claim or just accept it.

Quoted message said:

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything at
all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

Attack?? Do you think asking for evidence of efficacy is attack?? Do
you think expressing skepticism for an alternative treatment curing
cancer when there is no evidence for it as an attack. Please explain
what you consider an attack vs someone just expressing skepticism or
doubt.

Quoted message said:

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones .

The reason WHO has come here?? This is a group to discuss alternative
medicine pro AND con.

Quoted message said:

Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

Can you accept that what you consider worthwhile, someone else may
consider not worthwhile or bogus??? Maybe you can give an example of a
worthwhile link and why you think it worthwhile.

Quoted message said:

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

Define troll.

Quoted message said:

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only reason
these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to .

Idiots?? Name calling. tsk tsk.

Quoted message said:

I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction and
see how quickly they lose interest .

Hopefully you don't consider my response to your post to be
inappropriate. I sincerely wanted to respond to your concerns. I am
interested in your comments to my thoughts. Hopefully you can share
them with me and we can have a mutually respectful discussion.

Thanx,

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Bew

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

This is a discussion group. Alternative treatments by their very
nature have little objective evidence that they really work as they
are often claimed to. So it is reasonable that if someone asserts that
an alternative treatment really works that someone will express
skepticism and ask for some kind of evidence for efficacy.

Do you think that asking for evidence of efficacy is inappropriate
especially when incredible claims are made for various alternative
treatments. For example Hulda Clark claims that she has the cure for
ALL cancers. Should we question this claim or just accept it.

Quoted message said:

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

Attack?? Do you think asking for evidence of efficacy is attack?? Do
you think expressing skepticism for an alternative treatment curing
cancer when there is no evidence for it as an attack. Please explain
what you consider an attack vs someone just expressing skepticism or
doubt.

Quoted message said:

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones .

The reason WHO has come here?? This is a group to discuss alternative
medicine pro AND con.

Quoted message said:

Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

Can you accept that what you consider worthwhile, someone else may
consider not worthwhile or bogus??? Maybe you can give an example of a
worthwhile link and why you think it worthwhile.

Quoted message said:

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

Define troll.

Quoted message said:

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only

reason

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to .

Idiots?? Name calling. tsk tsk.

Quoted message said:

I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how quickly they lose interest .

Hopefully you don't consider my response to your post to be
inappropriate. I sincerely wanted to respond to your concerns. I am
interested in your comments to my thoughts. Hopefully you can share
them with me and we can have a mutually respectful discussion.

Thanx,

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Bew

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

Cool , you had your say , bye bye .

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote................

Quoted message said:

Cool , you had your say , bye bye .

Why does this remind me of a political discussion?

I think the majority of alties here expect and would prefer discussion among
themselves without confrontation.

FWIW - this was posted lately in SMD. Both pro and anti - alties will point
and say SEE!

--------------

A SHORT HISTORY OF MEDICINE: "Doctor, I have an ear ache."

2000 B.C. - "Here, eat this root."

1000 B.C. - "That root is heathen, say this prayer."

1850 A.D. - "That prayer is superstition, drink this potion."

1940 A.D. - "That potion is snake oil, swallow this pill."

1985 A.D. - "That pill is ineffective, take this antibiotic."

2000 A.D. - "That antibiotic is artificial. Here, eat this root!"

carabelli

carabelli said:

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote................

Quoted message said:

Cool , you had your say , bye bye .

Quoted message said:

I think the majority of alties here expect and would prefer discussion among
themselves without confrontation.

Of course. And I could understand why. Their belief that various
alternative treatments really work is either due to faith or an
assumption about cause and effect wrt their personal experience.

When they are asked to provide the objective evidence that the
alternative treatment really works they are unable to do so and get
frustrated. They then often will lash out and attack the person asking
the question. It is quite predictable.

My sense is that many of the alties really want/need to believe that
the alternative treatments work.

Many of the alties have rejected conventional medicine and really
need to have something that they believe will either treat their
illnesses or prevent future problems.

This is especially true among the somatically hypervigilant who need
to believe in order to reduce their anxiety. Questioning them about
various alternative treatments threatens their security so their
negative reaction is understandable.

The alties keep trying to drive the skeptics and those who question
alternative therapy efficacy, away from this group. I have been a
regular poster in this newsgroup since shortly after its inception
well over a decade ago. The names change but the dynamics remain the
same. I don't believe that there is a single altie that was a regular
when I began posting in this group that is still here.

Aloha,

Rich

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

In article said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that there
is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

If you are new to the newsgroup, you should realize that you are too
inexperienced to make any generalizations about what happens.

Quoted message said:

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

Troll -- someone who doesn't support Bew's pet methodologies.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

It appears that you, bew-bew, are the 'new kid on the block'

WB
--

Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion.
[email hidden]

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

It appears that you, bew-bew, are the 'new kid on the block'

WB
--

Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion.
[email hidden]

Hey ---- appropriate name - GARBAGE , SUITS YOU ,,,, COOL , FOOL .
Thank you very much , some more willing fodder for my killfile cannon .
Luv your stupidity , can't help yourselves can you ?

PS - no need to reply to me , I won't see it .

Bye Bye

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

Quoted message said:

Subject: Trolls and arguments
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 3/2/2004 7:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that there
is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything at
all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones . Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only reason
these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to . I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction and
see how quickly they lose interest .

Bew

While I agree with much you have to say, they don't lose interest, they are
obsessed with belittling and badgering.

Their aim is to run off those who have used alternative medicine with success,
or yack about placebo. In reality, they know alternative mediicine is growing
and it eats their socks, because they have an insane EGO and can't stand to be
wrong.

Jan

Cur for Richard H Jacobson to appear and start with his usual as is his long
time pattern.

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

It appears that you, bew-bew, are the 'new kid on the block'

WB
--

Quoted message said:

Hey ---- appropriate name - GARBAGE , SUITS YOU ,,,, COOL , FOOL .
Thank you very much , some more willing fodder for my killfile cannon .
Luv your stupidity , can't help yourselves can you ?

PS - no need to reply to me , I won't see it .

Bye Bye

Excellent ! Now I can ...
--

Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion.
[email hidden]

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Trolls and arguments
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 3/2/2004 7:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones . Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only

reason

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to . I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how quickly they lose interest .

Bew

While I agree with much you have to say, they don't lose interest, they

are

Quoted message said:

obsessed with belittling and badgering.

Their aim is to run off those who have used alternative medicine with

success,

Quoted message said:

or yack about placebo. In reality, they know alternative mediicine is

growing

Quoted message said:

and it eats their socks, because they have an insane EGO and can't stand

to be

Quoted message said:

wrong.

Jan

Cur for Richard H Jacobson to appear and start with his usual as is his

long

Quoted message said:

time pattern.

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John

Bain

So you are saying we need to argue with these deadshits ?
Bew

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Trolls and arguments
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 3/2/2004 7:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

<Rich.@.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

This is a discussion group. Alternative treatments by their very
nature have little objective evidence that they really work as they
are often claimed to. So it is reasonable that if someone asserts that
an alternative treatment really works that someone will express
skepticism and ask for some kind of evidence for efficacy.

Do you think that asking for evidence of efficacy is inappropriate
especially when incredible claims are made for various alternative
treatments. For example Hulda Clark claims that she has the cure for
ALL cancers. Should we question this claim or just accept it.

Quoted message said:

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

Attack?? Do you think asking for evidence of efficacy is attack?? Do
you think expressing skepticism for an alternative treatment curing
cancer when there is no evidence for it as an attack. Please explain
what you consider an attack vs someone just expressing skepticism or
doubt.

Quoted message said:

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones .

The reason WHO has come here?? This is a group to discuss alternative
medicine pro AND con.

Quoted message said:

Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

Can you accept that what you consider worthwhile, someone else may
consider not worthwhile or bogus??? Maybe you can give an example of a
worthwhile link and why you think it worthwhile.

Quoted message said:

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

Define troll.

Quoted message said:

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only

reason

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to .

Idiots?? Name calling. tsk tsk.

Quoted message said:

I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how quickly they lose interest .

Hopefully you don't consider my response to your post to be
inappropriate. I sincerely wanted to respond to your concerns. I am
interested in your comments to my thoughts. Hopefully you can share
them with me and we can have a mutually respectful discussion.

Thanx,

Aloha,

Rich

Quoted message said:

Bew

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

Cool , you had your say , bye bye .

OH, DARN!!

Rich *sincerely* wanted to discuss with you. Which would have lasted for about
three posts, then he could BADGER you for a year or three. Followed by
personally trashing.

Now, he'll just have to hold all that sincere responding in and not rip you to
shreds.

Just when he thought he had a new prospect.

He'll prolly burst a seam or three. *;*

Jan

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John Bain

<<
While I agree with much you have to say, they don't lose interest, they are
obsessed with belittling and badgering. >>

And it gets frustrating, because you find yourself coming back at them, because
they are so disgusting, that they can make you sick. You'd like to ignore
them, however, sometimes, you wonder how many lives could be saved if the stuff
discussed in here, has worked for some people, and is belittled by "them",
isn't challenged by some of us with personal experience, because can you
imagine someone who is at wits end with a problem that perhaps alternative
medicine could actually help? If they listened to the "garbage" that some of
the anti-alts had to say, they might miss out on a therapy that might work for
them.
And really who only knows if there isn't just one or two people here that use
a variety of handles to make it look like a whole mess of people are posting.
Just watch for the "gang bang" when you post something they don't like.

<< Their aim is to run off those who have used alternative medicine with
success,
or yack about placebo. In reality, they know alternative mediicine is growing
and it eats their socks, because they have an insane EGO and can't stand to be
wrong. >>

Ain't that the truth. However, they want "proof", and my "proof" isn't any of
their business. I know what has worked for me (and what hasn't), and some of
the (and what hasn't), was conventional medicine, and being prescribed drugs
that made me (and conventional medicine admitted to this) even sicker....who
says you cannot take your ownself off of prednisone....watch me doc.....and
"what part of this do you not get?"

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie Winchester).

Quoted message said:

From: WB [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Troll

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: Trolls and arguments
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 3/2/2004 9:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Trolls and arguments
From: "Bew" qw@nonamewhatsover
Date: 3/2/2004 7:26 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

there

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is a very concentrated attempt to discredit any claims made about the
effectiveness of alternative cures or approaches to medical problems.

The first thing you will notice is that these people always try and
discredit any item whatsoever , in other words they just attack anything

at

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

all . This is a direct indication of their real motives .

The reason you have come here is to seek other points of view outside the
mainstream medical ones . Take the time to read through the items offered
here as there are many worthwhile links and good information to be had .

You will very quickly learn to do what I have done and killfile those
annoying trolls .

All those genuine posters here should also take the point , the only

reason

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

these idiots hang around is because you give them reason to . I found out
quickly that the arguments you enter into are boring and repetitive and
always go nowhere , so why bother guys ? . Try a no response reaction

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

see how quickly they lose interest .

Bew

While I agree with much you have to say, they don't lose interest, they

are

Quoted message said:

obsessed with belittling and badgering.

Their aim is to run off those who have used alternative medicine with

success,

Quoted message said:

or yack about placebo. In reality, they know alternative mediicine is

growing

Quoted message said:

and it eats their socks, because they have an insane EGO and can't stand

to be

Quoted message said:

wrong.

Jan

Cur for Richard H Jacobson to appear and start with his usual as is his

long

Quoted message said:

time pattern.

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time. John

Bain

So you are saying we need to argue with these deadshits ?
Bew

NOPE. I am saying it matters not, their pattern will remain the same as they
are obsessed. That's why most of them remain in my killfile. I take them out
every once in a while to review and expose thier pattern and their lies.

Jan

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<<
While I agree with much you have to say, they don't lose interest, they

are

Quoted message said:

obsessed with belittling and badgering. >>

And it gets frustrating, because you find yourself coming back at them,

because

Quoted message said:

they are so disgusting, that they can make you sick. You'd like to ignore
them, however, sometimes, you wonder how many lives could be saved if the

stuff

Quoted message said:

discussed in here, has worked for some people, and is belittled by "them",
isn't challenged by some of us with personal experience, because can you
imagine someone who is at wits end with a problem that perhaps alternative
medicine could actually help? If they listened to the "garbage" that some

of

Quoted message said:

the anti-alts had to say, they might miss out on a therapy that might work

for

Quoted message said:

them.
And really who only knows if there isn't just one or two people here that

use

Quoted message said:

a variety of handles to make it look like a whole mess of people are

posting.

Quoted message said:

Just watch for the "gang bang" when you post something they don't like.

<< Their aim is to run off those who have used alternative medicine with
success,
or yack about placebo. In reality, they know alternative mediicine is

growing

Quoted message said:

and it eats their socks, because they have an insane EGO and can't stand

to be

Quoted message said:

wrong. >>

Ain't that the truth. However, they want "proof", and my "proof" isn't

any of

Quoted message said:

their business. I know what has worked for me (and what hasn't), and some

of

Quoted message said:

the (and what hasn't), was conventional medicine, and being prescribed

drugs

Quoted message said:

that made me (and conventional medicine admitted to this) even

sicker....who

Quoted message said:

says you cannot take your ownself off of prednisone....watch me

doc.....and

Quoted message said:

"what part of this do you not get?"

"If you're gonna walk on thin ice, you may as well dance." (Jessie

Winchester).

I like your response and your attitude . I feel the same way as you do ,
thanks for your reply :-) , you sound like a very sensible and articulate
person . You are right , the word needs to go out and it needs to be
defended as there are people out there who need to know about the
alternatives .

Also I like your "thin ice " quote .

Bew

---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 18/02/2004

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"WB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

If you are new to this ng (like me) you will very quickly notice that

It appears that you, bew-bew, are the 'new kid on the block'

WB
--

Take out the G'RBAGE for private discussion.
[email hidden]

Hey ---- appropriate name - GARBAGE , SUITS YOU ,,,, COOL , FOOL .
Thank you very much , some more willing fodder for my killfile cannon .
Luv your stupidity , can't help yourselves can you ?

PS - no need to reply to me , I won't see it .

Bye Bye

But there is always:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=misc.health.alternative

You can also search it to see if particular topics have been discussed.

"Bew" <qw@nonamewhatsover>

Quoted message said:

"Jan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: Trolls and arguments

Rich is a cyberstalker and he has been stalking Jan for a long time.

John

Quoted message said:

Bain

If I'm not mistaken, and I'm not, John Bain politely vanished after making a
claim that could be tested by the JREF. (www.randi.org) I'd love to hear
different. But I won't.

le moo

Bew' qw@nonamewhatsover said:

"DEBBEE1023" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
I feel the same way as you do ,
thanks for your reply :-) , you sound like a very sensible and articulate
person .

<Choking>

You owe me a new keyboard. Now this is a real keeper.

Someone describing Debbee as "very sensible" and
"articulate". Lord have mercy.

Aloha,

Rich
-------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------

The best defense to logic is ignorance

"HCN" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:G9e1c.167318$jk2.615693@attbi_s53...

Quoted message said:

By the way on a related note, I have learned a new word this week:
cyperchondria . On www.google.com it brought up 5990 hits.

===============
(Opps....typo) Cyberchondria
http://www.imakenews.com/health-itworld/e_article000152340.cfm
Interesting article.