intesections

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go

straight.

Quoted message said:

The curb lane widens [but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate
right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and
when it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I
consider to be

the

Quoted message said:

riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

The law is, bikes should stay as far to the right as is 'practiceable'. That would seem to imply
that a bike should bug the curb.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer' -Sass Jordan

I hug the curb because I don't like hanging out there in the breeze of the intersection, just in
case somebody forgets to stop or someone tries to turn right and bumps me. But I think that the
right side of the right lane (non-turn lane) is also correct. You maintain ownership of your
position and you avoid that merge situation later on the other side. Whatever makes you more
comfortable. I live with the merge and avoid the crazy intersection scene.

Cheers,

Scott..

In article said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go straight. The curb lane widens
[but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane?

If the rightmost lane is straight-through-or-right-turn, position yourself to the left side of the
lane -- especially if you can let right-turners behind/beside you do their thing. If it's
right-turn-only and you're going straight through, move to the rightmost straight-through lane. If
that's not share-able
(i.e: less than 12' wide) take the lane. Stay up toward the crown of the road while traversing the
intersection (this gives you both visibility and manoeuvering room), watch out for oncoming
left-turners, right shoulder-check to make sure nobody's trying to pass you on your right, and
move to the appropriate position to the right when it's safe to do so.

Watch out for right-on-red turners on your right, from the cross street, as you approach the far
side of the intersection.

Timing is everything.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Quoted message said:

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and when
it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I consider
to be the riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

I'm not sure I understand your scenario but the best advice I can give you is pick your line going
into the intersection such that you are not compromised on the other side.

If you were driving a car you wouldn't pick a line that requires a merge. Stay in your line and
lane. Don't hug the curb and don't be afraid to dominate the lane.

All the cars can do is yield to you, if you are driving correctly, what else can they do, kill you?
Display confidence and control.

Exhibit mastery of the situation, ha ha.

Look at the whole scenario and pick the spot about 100 meters from where you are that you want to
be. Drive towards that spot.

Control the scenario in such a way as to result in your being where you want to be.

Be there.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Tom Keats <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]

: If the rightmost lane is straight-through-or-right-turn, position yourself to the left side of the
: lane -- especially if you can let right-turners behind/beside you do their thing.

That makes me somewhat nervous though; having right turners not so much as someone who takes the
position but goes straight when the light changes leaving me sandwiched between two lanes of
traffic. Not to mention how a cop might interpret 'keep as far right as _practiceable_.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

In article said:

Tom Keats <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]

: If the rightmost lane is straight-through-or-right-turn, position yourself to the left side of
: the lane -- especially if you can let right-turners behind/beside you do their thing.

That makes me somewhat nervous though; having right turners not so much as someone who takes the
position but goes straight when the light changes

In other words, passing you on the right. I think the cops take a dimmer view of that, than of the
lane-positioning I suggest.

Nevertheless, getting passed on the right does sometimes happen, which is why I recommended
right-shoulder checking. Fortunately, those occurrences are very infrequent. You can just let those
right-passers go. Give 'em enough rope to hang themselves with, and keep your own skin on. I've
never had a whole string of 'em forcing me to the left; just the odd petrified brain doing it once
in awhile.

My basic rule of thumb is: let the impatient ones get ahead of me, and keep the indecisive ones
behind me. So far, it's worked.

Quoted message said:

leaving me sandwiched between two lanes of traffic. Not to mention how a cop might interpret 'keep
as far right as _practiceable_.

If you stay way over to the right, when you get the green the first right turner will cut you off,
and then an whole string of them will follow, and you'd get nowhere. That's not practicable at all.

Incidentally, I'm against right-on-red, from a pedestrian POV.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Eric S. Sande <[email hidden]> wrote:
:>Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and when
:>it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I consider
:>to be the riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

: I'm not sure I understand your scenario but the best advice I can give you is pick your line going
: into the intersection such that you are not compromised on the other side.

I do tend to do that but I've had dirty looks from right-turners who had to wait. Actually I know
drivers who get angry at other autos going straight in the right lane.

And it brings me back to what the John Q Lawman might interpret 'keep as far right as
practiceable' as being.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

Quoted message said:

That makes me somewhat nervous though; having right turners not so much as someone who takes the
position but goes straight when the light changes leaving me sandwiched between two lanes of
traffic. Not to mention how a cop might interpret 'keep as far right as _practiceable_.

You should never be sandwiched between lanes in this scenario.

You are, ideally, IN the lane under these circumstances. I know this isn't what you're thinking, but
if you are in the lane then you are in file with the cars here.

That is, in the lane. You are in between the lane makers and there is a car in front of you and a
car behind you. Your wheel is in line with the middle of the car bumper in front of you, etc.

You are in the MIDDLE OF THE LANE.

In other words you are dominating the road space. Acting as a vehicle. As if you were riding a
motorcycle or driving a car.

This is the first thing you are going to have to learn about riding in traffic. Don't give up
territory because of failure to interpret rules. The law says, in most places, that it's up to you
to determine reasonable and safe positioning.

Take everything you can get.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
the Texas Elvis"------------------
__________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

Barry Gaudet from University of Guelph said:

Should I hug the curb or take the lane?

Take the lane. No brainer.

--
home.sport.rr.comcuthuluOpen ↗ human rights = peace Where's the Coke machine? Tell me a joke!!
12:42:18 AM 4 July 2003

4 Jul 2003 05:03:27 GMT, <[email hidden]>, Barry Gaudet

Quoted message said:

I do tend to do that but I've had dirty looks from right-turners who had to wait. Actually I know
drivers who get angry at other autos going straight in the right lane.

See what driving can do to otherwise normal people.

I'm occupying the left part of the lane in the situation you described. I look behind. If they've
got on a turn signal, I'll move further left. No signal, they're behind me until I cross the
intersection ahead of them before moving back to the right. It's not a big deal because you can beat
them across anyway.

I'll make it a point that I'm moving, by lifting the back wheel and swinging it out of the way for
their right turn. If after they turn, the next car has no signal, I swing the back of the bike back
to where it was. Let 'em get a good look at my "CARS SUCK" sticker.
--
zk

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go

straight.

Quoted message said:

The curb lane widens [but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate
right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and
when it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I
consider to be

the

Quoted message said:

riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

The law is, bikes should stay as far to the right as is 'practiceable'. That would seem to imply
that a bike should bug the curb.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer' -Sass Jordan

bicyclesafe.combicyclesafe.comOpen ↗

humantransport.orgindex.htmlOpen ↗

bikexprt.comindex.htmOpen ↗

~_-* ...G/ \G shastasoftware.comshastasoftware.comOpen ↗ Developers of CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

From: Barry Gaudet [email hidden] << I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I
plan to go straight.

The curb lane widens [but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate
right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? >>

Never hug the curb in a right turn lane. You should be able to find a seam in this intersection
where you are not blocking right-turners, nor blocking straight through drivers, nor blocked by
anyone else. If it's a right-turn only lane, you're right on the line between the right turn and
the through lane. If there's no line, you're where the line would be. Then, when the light turns
green, you drift subtly to the right, into the void of the intersection, to let the straight
through cars bust past easily on your left. Then at the far side of the intersection you take a
place wherever you want in the lane without a care in the world because there are no drivers
breathing down your backside.

Robert

R15757 <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]

: Never hug the curb in a right turn lane.

It is not a right turn lane. It is a right_or_straight lane

: You should be able to find a seam in this intersection where you are not blocking right-turners,
: nor blocking straight through drivers,

But my point is that leaves me sandwiched if the space to the right is taken by someone who decides
to go straight.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

Eric S. Sande <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]
: That is, in the lane. You are in between the lane makers and there is a car in front of you and a
: car behind you. Your wheel is in line with the middle of the car bumper in front of you, etc.

: You are in the MIDDLE OF THE LANE.

The problem is that the curb lane has widened for the iontersection. It is more like a lane and a
half. It can be difficult to take the lane and not leave room on one side or the other.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go

straight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The curb lane widens [but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate right-on-red
turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane?

If the rightmost lane is straight-through-or-right-turn, position yourself to the left side of the
lane -- especially if you can let right-turners behind/beside you do their thing.

I will do that out of courtesy but not if it's demanded of me. I had a motorist ask me to move once
and, I said, "you wouldn't ask me to move if I was on my motorcycle or driving my car, so, wait
your turn!"

Quoted message said:

If it's right-turn-only and you're going straight through, move to the rightmost straight-through
lane. If that's not share-able
(i.e: less than 12' wide) take the lane.

Take the lane anyway. It's a damn stop anyway, and the motorist isn't gaining anything by sharing
the lane with you, and you risk losing. That way you don't have to (dangerously) share a lane with
an automobike through the intersection.

Quoted message said:

Stay up toward the crown of the road while traversing the intersection (this gives you both
visibility and manoeuvering room), watch out for oncoming left-turners, right shoulder-check to
make sure nobody's trying to pass you on your right, and move to the appropriate position to the
right when it's safe to do so.

Watch out for right-on-red turners on your right, from the cross street, as you approach the far
side of the intersection.

Good advice.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tom Keats <[email hidden]> wrote: [...]

: If the rightmost lane is straight-through-or-right-turn, position yourself to the left side of
: the lane -- especially if you can let right-turners behind/beside you do their thing.

That makes me somewhat nervous though; having right turners not so much as someone who takes the
position but goes straight when the light changes leaving me sandwiched between two lanes of
traffic. Not to mention how a cop might interpret 'keep as far right as _practiceable_.

I agree. I've been doing this for years, and have yet to have a cop give me [censored]. Don't share the
lane with a car at an intersection. You have the right to take the lane and you don't have to share
it at an intersection.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

"Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That makes me somewhat nervous though; having right turners not so much as someone who takes the
position but goes straight when the light changes leaving me sandwiched between two lanes of
traffic. Not to mention how a cop might interpret 'keep as far right as _practiceable_.

You should never be sandwiched between lanes in this scenario.

You are, ideally, IN the lane under these circumstances. I know this isn't what you're thinking,
but if you are in the lane then you are in file with the cars here.

That is, in the lane. You are in between the lane makers and there is a car in front of you and a
car behind you. Your wheel is in line with the middle of the car bumper in front of you, etc.

You are in the MIDDLE OF THE LANE.

In other words you are dominating the road space. Acting as a vehicle.

'Scuse me, I agree, but acting like a "human" on a vehicle, with the same rights and concerns as
someone in a car, bus, truck, tractor, or whatever.

Quoted message said:

As if you were riding a motorcycle or driving a car.

This is the first thing you are going to have to learn about riding in traffic. Don't give up
territory because of failure to interpret rules. The law says, in most places, that it's up to you
to determine reasonable and safe positioning.

Take everything you can get.

--
Robin Hubert <[email hidden]

"R15757" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

From: Barry Gaudet [email hidden] << I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I
plan to go

straight.

Quoted message said:

The curb lane widens [but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate
right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? >>

Never hug the curb in a right turn lane. You should be able to find a seam

in

Quoted message said:

this intersection where you are not blocking right-turners, nor blocking straight through drivers,
nor blocked by anyone else.

Tell me Robert, why never block a lane? You are one human in traffic like most everyone else. Just
because you choose to ride a bike, you must become a second-class citizen and get out of the way for
more important people? Like I said elsewhere, would I have to stay out of the way if I was on my
motorcycle? My piece of [censored] car that can't out-accelerate me on my bicycle? Let the M-f'ers wait
their turn.

Quoted message said:

If it's a right-turn only lane, you're right on the line between the right turn and the through

lane. If

Quoted message said:

there's no line, you're where the line would be. Then, when the light

turns

Quoted message said:

green, you drift subtly to the right, into the void of the intersection,

to let

Quoted message said:

the straight through cars bust past easily on your left. Then at the far

side

Quoted message said:

of the intersection you take a place wherever you want in the lane without

a

Quoted message said:

care in the world because there are no drivers breathing down your

backside.

Quoted message said:

Robert

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go straight. The curb lane widens
[but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and
when it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I
consider to be the riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

The law is, bikes should stay as far to the right as is 'practiceable'. That would seem to imply
that a bike should bug the curb.

Except when it's not practicable, which is (IMO) the situation you're
in. I'd recommend taking the lane; it's what I do at major intersections unless there is a very
wide shoulder.

Quoted message said:

--
Dave Kerber Fight spam: remove the ns_ from the return address before replying!

REAL programmers write self-modifying code.

In article said:

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and
when it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I
consider to be

the

Quoted message said:

riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

bicyclesafe.combicyclesafe.comOpen ↗

humantransport.orgindex.htmlOpen ↗

bikexprt.comindex.htmOpen ↗

In particular, the "riding through intersections" chapter should explain this all pretty clearly:

bikexprt.comchapter3a.htmOpen ↗

--Bruce Fields