intesections

In <[email hidden]>, Barry Gaudet <[email hidden]> opined:

Quoted message said:

Should I hug the curb or take the lane?

Which lane goes where you're going?

As you said, the wider lane is there to make right turns easier. If you're not turning right you
don't belong there.

Depending on traffic I'd probably move as far LEFT in the right lane as it takes to be unambiguous
about my intentions. That might be an extra 6 in., or it might be half a lane width, but I wouldn't
linger at the rightmost practicable position any longer than necessary at this intersection no
matter what.

--
Dave Salovesh [email hidden]

Robin Hubert said:

"Jasper Janssen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Robin Hubert said:

Tell me Robert, why never block a lane?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

there's no reason to do so. It's rude when you do it on a bike, it's rude when you do it on a
motorcycle, it's rude when you do it in a car, and

Quoted message said:

You definetely have an axe to grind re. people getting in your way. Slow down and respect people.

Whereas you appear to have an axe to grind Re. people getting anywhere quicker than you. For
reference, I don't drive. Anything. I don't even have my license. My primary transportation is my
bike. That doesn't mean I'm going to deliberately annoy the rest of the world just because I'm going
somewhere. It's that adversarial attitude that you display just as much as the 'pinhead drivers'
that is the source of the problem.

Jasper

Dave Salovesh <[email hidden]> wrote:
: In <[email hidden]>, Barry Gaudet <[email hidden]> opined:

:> Should I hug the curb or take the lane?

: Which lane goes where you're going?

: As you said, the wider lane is there to make right turns easier. If you're not turning right you
: don't belong there.

Not true. The lane is for right and straight.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

"Tom Sherman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, it is too hard for people to speak while they are laughing.

Tom, people have a lot of respect for real cyclists like me, even North American common folk know
the real thing when they see it. You should get off the bent, buy some euro kit and see the
different attitude you get from the small people out there.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message .ca...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Because you guys don't stop. Traffic regulations are for lamers. Elite pro racers are above all
that pedestrian [censored]. Right?

There's a time and place for stopping and rolling through.

If you can see it's clear and you have a strung out line of riders behind you what you do is yell
'clear' and roll through.

Take a look at the Knight Street ride on Saturday for an example of how we can control things out
there. You CM types don't carry the right stuff to pull this off.

Replying to both:

Barry Gaudet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

And personally I think I find it preferable to have a right-turner on my left than being far
enough out that they turn on my right.

Why? I can't think of any reason why off the top of my head. They are so much more likely to
deliberately squish you or absentmindly whack you when they're on your left. But if you're on the
left of them, then they get to make their turn without squishing or whacking, and you're free to go
on your merry way too. Win-Win for everyone.

Barry Gaudet <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Scott Lindstrom <[email hidden]> wrote
: Barry Gaudet wrote:
:> [...] But my point is that leaves me sandwiched if the space to the right is taken by someone
:> who decides to go straight.

: True, but you should be through the intersection before they start up, shouldn't you?

Therein lies the problem. At the other side of the intersection I have a car that started out on
my right trying to get to the left of me.

And, IMHO this is the area where autos seem to pass at their closest -
just after an intersection. I've felt the brush of mirrors on my arm.

Of course, of course they are trying to get to the left of you. By hugging the curb, you are showing
yourself to be a weenie that they can push around like some pedestrian.

As a cyclist, you *own* your spot of pavement. You may choose to graciously yield it to be
cooperative in traffic, but nonetheless, it is *yours*. It is up to you do demonstrate to the
motorists that you own this pavement when necessary. You do this in part by taking the lane at
controlled intersections.

In the situation you describe, a straight and right-turner lane, to be cooperative, to be gracious,
you may put your bike in the left-ish part of the lane to allow (key word: allow) motorists to pass
your right. But you are squarely visible in the lane. No curb hugging. You may need to use eye
contact to reinforce your lane positioning. (see: tinyurl.comg45mOpen ↗ for discussion). This
demonstrates your control of your piece of pavement, shows you are not to treated like some rotting
piece of roadkill, but like a vehicle to be respected.

You have a place on the road, but you must -- not defend it, because it's yours by all natural
rights. Rather, you must remind the rest of traffic that it is naturally yours, just in case it
has slipped their minds. This is done not from a place of arrogance, but a place of confidence
and mastery.

Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky ([email hidden])

Home of the meditative cyclist: home.earthlink.netWelcome.htmOpen ↗

Singing with you at: tiferet.nettiferet.netOpen ↗

Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: bookcrossing.comCpeterskyOpen ↗

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:25:03 GMT, "Fabrizio Mazzoleni"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Tom, people have a lot of respect for real cyclists like me, even North American common folk know
the real thing when they see it.

Not me -- I keep mistaking you for a package of Wonder Bread.

"Zippy the Pinhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagecom...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not me -- I keep mistaking you for a package of Wonder Bread.

How do you get a loaf of bread out of team Vini Caldirola-So.Di and team Milenaza-MSS?

Even someone like you has respect when you see a guy like Me or Giampaolo Cheula out training in
our race kit.

"Fabrizio Mazzoleni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message.ca...

Quoted message said:

Even someone like you has respect when you see a guy like Me or Giampaolo Cheula out training in
our race kit.

That should have read ' has respect for us '.

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

How do you get a loaf of bread out of team Vini Caldirola-So.Di and team Milenaza-MSS?

I dunno -- maybe it's the ungodly splotches of primary colors and the nonsense syllables all over
your shirt.

And over here, we only do-si-do at square dances. And then only when absolutely necessary.

"Zippy the Pinhead" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I dunno -- maybe it's the ungodly splotches of primary colors and the nonsense syllables all over
your shirt.

Here's today's euro pro lesson:

Caldirola is a wine producer/distributor

So.Di is a soda water distributor

Maia and MSS is Portuguese for something, who knows, I just look great wearing that kit, that's what
really counts.

Claire Petersky <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Replying to both:

: Barry Gaudet wrote:
:> And personally I think I find it preferable to have a right-turner on my left than being far
:> enough out that they turn on my right.

: Why? I can't think of any reason why off the top of my head. They are

A poor choice of words on my part. I worry that they are not going to right turn. I'm not saying
it's rational. I'm not even claiming that I am rational. Just how it makes me feel.

: Of course, of course they are trying to get to the left of you. By hugging the curb, you are
: showing yourself to be a weenie that they can push around like some pedestrian.

You're both the den mother and drill instructer of the newsgroup? Trying to whip me into shape??
Make a _real_ cyclist out me???

🙂

Ya I guess I am a bit of a weenie. I do tend to let them push me to the side - but not always.

Oh, speaking of meditative cycling: I'm planning a time travel ride tomorrow. About a 100 km away
is a town I spent some of my teenage years
in. I plan to cycle out and back - a zen thing - to travel back to a place I haven't been to in
almost 20 years. Very reflective.

There! Now that I've said it here, I'm committed. I can't wimp out now.

--

'Ooh I will make you a believer'

- Sass Jordan

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A poor choice of words on my part. I worry that they are not going to

right

Quoted message said:

turn. I'm not saying it's rational. I'm not even claiming that I am rational. Just how it makes
me feel.

If they are not signaling to turn right, screw 'em. You can't be a mind reader.

If they are, move left and let them pass.

Pete

Jasper Janssen said:

Robin Hubert said:

Tell me Robert, why never block a lane?

Quoted message said:

there's no reason to do so. It's rude when you do it on a bike, it's rude when you do it on a
motorcycle, it's rude when you do it in a car, and

Quoted message said:

Jasper

Sometimes blocking the lane or "taking the lane" is the safe and proper thing to do. It's not rude
or arrogant. It's safe and proper. Bikes are allowed on the roads and streets. Motorists are
required to pass "when safe to do so". Be safe, be reasonable. Be polite as long as you don't risk
your life doing so. Enjoy, Bernie

Bernie said:

Sometimes blocking the lane or "taking the lane" is the safe and proper thing to do. It's not rude
or arrogant. It's safe and proper.

After all, motorists do it all the time...

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ Advance
notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP. Obviously there will be a week of downtime
between the engineer removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same equipment on
the same line in the same exchange and billing it to the new ISP.

"Pete" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Barry Gaudet" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A poor choice of words on my part. I worry that they are not going to

right

Quoted message said:

turn. I'm not saying it's rational. I'm not even claiming that I am rational. Just how it makes
me feel.

If they are not signaling to turn right, screw 'em. You can't be a mind reader.

It's not a matter of "screw 'em". It's a matter of taking your lawful, moral and safe space. You
have a right to ensure your safety. The cost to the other road users will be less than 10 seconds,
if that. The difference between how long it takes for you to cross the intersection minus how long
it would take them without you there, is very little. If they mind that, then "screw 'em". It IS
dangerous to be right of right turners when you are going straight. Most motorists won't mind.

Bernie said:

Jasper Janssen said:

Robin Hubert said:

Tell me Robert, why never block a lane?

Quoted message said:

Sometimes blocking the lane or "taking the lane" is the safe and proper thing to do. It's not rude
or arrogant. It's safe and proper.

Exactly. Sometimes. That's not the vibe I get from Robin, though.

Jasper

Barry Gaudet said:

A recurring point I ponder:

I stop at a 4 lane 4 way intersection for the light. I plan to go straight. The curb lane widens
[but it is not a full lane] at the intersection to acommodate right-on-red turns.

Should I hug the curb or take the lane? If I hug the curb then auto's left turn around me and when
it is time to go I have to merge with autos on the other side of the intersection which I consider
to be the riskiest part of sharing the road with autos.

Take the lane. In fact, as someone else said, you might even move to the left to allow right-turners
to pass you on the right.

I never move right in a situation when I will almost immediately have to merge back into traffic.
In fact, there's place I frequently ride where a two-lane street (with shareable right-hand lane)
widens into a three-way street, but only for about two blocks. Then it narrows again to two
lanes, this time with a narrow right lane. For that two-block stretch, I take the center lane
(which can reasonably be considered the "right through lane"😉, rather than have to merge quickly
back into traffic.

Quoted message said:

The law is, bikes should stay as far to the right as is 'practiceable'. That would seem to imply
that a bike should bug the curb.

In my state, the word is "safe," rather than "practicable." I like "safe" a lot better.

--
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and
patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war, is worse."
-- J.S. Mill

Sat, 05 Jul 2003 22:28:18 GMT, <[email hidden]>, Lance's shadow

Fabrizio Mazzoleni said:

Take a look at the Knight Street ride on Saturday for an example of how we can control things out
there. You CM types don't carry the right stuff to pull this off.

If you guys took the Knight Street Bridge, that would be saying something.

Last week, twenty or so people rode naked up Main St. That's when drivers really sit up and
take notice.
--
zk