Calling Out Flyer

Naming names.

I may never name specific names directly. If I did,several things will happen---all bad. I may name some names, indirectly. There is so much doping (at 100%) obviously, I will end up naming a name that I do know personally. It is impossible not to. But I will not confirm it becasue:

1) You won't believe me when I name the specific folks---many names you would recognize. But you'll deny it, calling it 'a jealous lie' or a 'cowardly act'.

2) I would put these folks in a direct conflict with their employers and industry peers.

3) Some of the names will publicly deny their private doping remarks----as they would have financial adverse consequences if they confirmed them.

House is a very naive person, both in business and insofar as performance driven sport. Not sure if he is a coward or a fool too, but he does enjoy namecalling as in consistent with the loser end of the doping position.

What the public is fed is an integral part of show business. Privately, the actors/players are more honest, less dishonest with folks they trust.

Betraying a private trust by confirming a name is terrific way to lose your information flow.

The message is clear, and plenty of 'names' are already publicly known as both public liars and dopers. (some admit in retirement, some whistle blow, but all deny when intitally caught)

Here are some names, already out in the public you may consider or dismiss, which is what house does best.

Daivd Millar, Oscar Camenzind, Laurent Brochard (winner last weekend) over LA in 24th, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Pascal Herve, Gianluca Botolami, Santiago Botero, Guido Bontempi, Philippe Guamont, Jesus Manzano, Filippo Simeoni, Philippe Boyer, Eddie Merckx (5-time TDF), Fausto Coppi, Jacques Anquetil (5-time TDF), Djamonlidine Abdoujaparov, Kim Andersen, Pascal Lino, Freddy Maertens (most TDF stage wins & 2 World Titles), Pual Kimmage, Jan Janssen, Gerrie Knetemann (just died at age 53), Jan Kirsipuu, Sean Kelly, Bo Hamburger, Cyrille Guimard, Ivan Gotti, Alexi Grewal, Jacky Durand, Neil Stephens, Joop Zoetermelk, Matt White, Francesco Moser, Christophe Moreau, Peter Winnen, Stephano Zannini, Denis Zanette (died at age 32) Andri Van Der Poel, Johann Van Der Velde, Johann Museeuw (Lion of Flanders), Ramundas Rumsas, 2002 Jan Ulrich (1 time TDF) amphetamines, Pavel Tonkov, Jose Maria Jeminez (died at age 32) Marco Pantani (died at age 34), et al....

These are the whose who of cycling. (past & present)

There are hunderds more names I can name. Especially riders dying before age 35!

If you require more names, you are just playing a rotten game of deceit.

The doping facts are there for all to view.

As the French people write on the roads of the TDF;

Tous Dope ---they are all on drugs!

Da!

House said:

I am calling you out. The past few days I have been active on this forum and I have found out a few things that I am calling you out on:

1) Step up and answer questions directly. Every thread I have been in you nimbly avoid any direct answers. Happens in other threads I found. Step up and be a man.

2) You make all these claims of people you "talked to" or "know" yet somehow they never have names, just things like "Italian U-23 Champion" or "doctor." Anybody as obsessed as you can just make these things up, give us something that we can believe.

I am going to bet that you won't do either of these things and will either hide from this thread or somehow turn it into you Lance/Cycling Hate crusade.

Wow, what do you know he avoids answering any questions and turns it into his cycling hate crusade. Thanks for proving what type of person you really are...for anyone who doesn't already know.

House said:

Wow, what do you know he avoids answering any questions and turns it into his cycling hate crusade. Thanks for proving what type of person you really are...for anyone who doesn't already know.

House, why do you equate Flyer's desire to see a clean sport with hating the sport? That's Armstrong's position isn't it? Anyone who says there is doping in the sport hates the sport and wants to destroy it? Is it not possible that anyone who hates doping in the sport wants to see a clean sport and is angered and embittered by the seeming impossibility of that happening and by the waste of life? I would love the sport to be clean but I don't believe the way to do that is to vilify the riders who have the guts to be whistleblowers. I would be interested to know what your exact position on doping in the peloton is?

It is both cool and honorable to call people out anonymously on internet messsage boards. No, really. Kewl.

NW

micron said:

House, why do you equate Flyer's desire to see a clean sport with hating the sport? That's Armstrong's position isn't it? Anyone who says there is doping in the sport hates the sport and wants to destroy it? Is it not possible that anyone who hates doping in the sport wants to see a clean sport and is angered and embittered by the seeming impossibility of that happening and by the waste of life? I would love the sport to be clean but I don't believe the way to do that is to vilify the riders who have the guts to be whistleblowers. I would be interested to know what your exact position on doping in the peloton is?

I am totally against doping and I think in proven/realistic cases (i.e. Garzelli and probenecid at the Giro was an obvious crock) a lifetime ban is warrented. My problem with Flyer is not is dislike of doping, it's his burning need to turn everything into his crusade, his ignoring anything that doesn't fit his agenda, his lack of balls to answer any questions directly. There is a difference in saying you hate doping and apparently trying to convince everyone on a message board that your beloved sport is actually just a fraud by shoving it (well part of it that fits your agenda) down their throats. Flyer is the message board person who baffles me: Spending so much time posting messages intended to turn people against the sport that the board is about.

Made some big progress with house. Went from doping disclosure acceptance from blanket denial, to the age old, "yes I admit doping exists, BUT NOT WITH MY FAVORITE RIDER!"

It's baby step--but we'll get there soon enough.

Next it will be, everyone dopes, except LA.

You'll see. More public doping & fraud bombshells will occur in 2005!

House said:

I am totally against doping and I think in proven/realistic cases (i.e. Garzelli and probenecid at the Giro was an obvious crock) a lifetime ban is warrented. My problem with Flyer is not is dislike of doping, it's his burning need to turn everything into his crusade, his ignoring anything that doesn't fit his agenda, his lack of balls to answer any questions directly. There is a difference in saying you hate doping and apparently trying to convince everyone on a message board that your beloved sport is actually just a fraud by shoving it (well part of it that fits your agenda) down their throats. Flyer is the message board person who baffles me: Spending so much time posting messages intended to turn people against the sport that the board is about.

House said:

Spending so much time posting messages intended to turn people against the sport that the board is about.

This is your interpretation though and I don't think it is correct. There is a clear distinction between professional cycling (with all its sins) and the sport of cycling (with all its virtues). I really don't want to speak for Flyer but the impression I get is that is the former that he is criticizing not the latter... And in any case professional cycling is no different to any other professional sport. Professionalism = doping...

I think it would be best though if you guys kept the Lance/doping debate confined to a couple of topics. It seems that whichever topic I open in this section I bump on the same conversation, Lance this and Lance that... It is becoming tiring and I 'm sure others feel the same...

Flyer said:

Made some big progress with house. Went from doping disclosure acceptance from blanket denial, to the age old, "yes I admit doping exists, BUT NOT WITH MY FAVORITE RIDER!"

It's baby step--but we'll get there soon enough.

Next it will be, everyone dopes, except LA.

You'll see. More public doping & fraud bombshells will occur in 2005!

You didn't do [censored], you like to imagine what people are saying. I have never defended doping, but I also don't rant about it and claim everyone is a doper and a fraud while lying about and leaving out parts of the "proof" You are a tiny little man who is too much of a coward to step up and take my challenge. Obviously you have some severe emotional issues that force to spend all of your life on a hate crusade against something you claim to love.

Naming names. Here are just 50 names!

It is not hard to do since 100% of the pros dope!

Here are just a few of the 'proven cases'

Paola Pezzo. She went nandrolone positive on September 6, 1997. She demanded to be retested--and went positive three more times!

She got off and kept her World Championship.

Then Filip Meirhaeghe admitted EPO use on August 4, 2004. He never tested positive---just like Lance.

Then Chelsea Redwood went positive for phettermine on September 26, 2004 at Mammouth Mtn.

Daivd Millar, Oscar Camenzind, Laurent Brochard (winner last weekend) over LA in 24th, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Pascal Herve, Gianluca Botolami, Santiago Botero, Guido Bontempi, Philippe Guamont, Jesus Manzano, Filippo Simeoni, Philippe Boyer, Eddie Merckx (5-time TDF), Fausto Coppi, Jacques Anquetil (5-time TDF), Djamonlidine Abdoujaparov, Kim Andersen, Pascal Lino, Freddy Maertens (most TDF stage wins & 2 World Titles), Paul Kimmage, Jan Janssen, Gerrie Knetemann (just died at age 53), Jan Kirsipuu, Sean Kelly, Bo Hamburger, Cyrille Guimard, Ivan Gotti, Alexi Grewal, Jacky Durand, Neil Stephens, Joop Zoetermelk, Matt White, Francesco Moser, Christophe Moreau, Peter Winnen, Stephano Zannini, Denis Zanette (died at age 32) Andri Van Der Poel, Johann Van Der Velde, Johann Museeuw (Lion of Flanders), Ramundas Rumsas, 2002 Jan Ulrich (1 time TDF) amphetamines, Pavel Tonkov, Jose Maria Jeminez (died at age 32) Marco Pantani (died at age 34), et al....

Add one more for #50: Eddy Plankaert, EPO admission on Belgian TV.

These are the whose who of cycling. (past & present)

As the French people write on the roads of the TDF;

Tous Dope ---they are all on drugs!

Da!

Where is the list of people who have won races and not been busted? Oh wait, that doesn't fit your agenda of hate.

Still waiting for you to step up and take the challenge.

I don't agree with a lot of Fyler's Evidence, but man, as today's news about Hondo proves, Flyer has a point. As I've said before, if Hondo is positive, he should be banned for life. As should every single other cheater, amature or pro, no matter what his age.

Dope is cheating and it is embarrassing to our sport and though Flyer's dope posts can get annoying we all need to read them because the history of cycling really can't be separated from dope. Cycling is a noble sport -- but it's also a corrupt one and has been for decades.

tcklyde said:

I don't agree with a lot of Fyler's Evidence, but man, as today's news about Hondo proves, Flyer has a point. As I've said before, if Hondo is positive, he should be banned for life. As should every single other cheater, amature or pro, no matter what his age.

Dope is cheating and it is embarrassing to our sport and though Flyer's dope posts can get annoying we all need to read them because the history of cycling really can't be separated from dope. Cycling is a noble sport -- but it's also a corrupt one and has been for decades.

We don't need to read his posts because they are merely regurgitation of things we all know already, often times filled with lies, half-truths and usually editing out anything that could possibly make them wrong. He is obsessed with the notion of somehow making everyone on this board hate procycling as much as he obviously does. As someone else said, he's like those ultra religious people who feel everyone should convert to their religion and insist on trying to sell it over and over and over. All it does is make people hate you.

All TDF winners are exempt from any 'positive test results being published'. That's a fact too.

So Lance Armstrong is in the same doping group as Marco Pantani was (before he died in 2003)

No one is ever DQed while leading the TDF. Not after 1978.

On July 16, 1978 there was an embarrassing incident on l'Alpe d'Huez. Bernard Hinault had been dropped by Belgian Michel Pollentier who took the Yellow Jersey by winning the stage.

He was asked for urine. Proud as a Peacock he complied---whilst still wearing his 'long-sleeve' jersey. But he could not pee. Then he sweated until the examiner suggested he remove his long-sleeve jersey. He then sweated even more.

Michel's rubber bulb and tube/cork had been sabotaged---or so legend has it, and the urine sample could not be passed by Polletier. The examiner grabed his arm---and discoved the lump of the rubber hose---and he was busted.

His penalty was a DQ and a 2 month suspension.

It should have worked--and Michel might have won the 1978 TDF.

That's my entire point. The testing is a joke--and cannot be relied upon. These guys are doped to dangerous and toxic levels in July.

Business trumps compliance.

Look at the NFL.

Da!

House said:

Where is the list of people who have won races and not been busted? Oh wait, that doesn't fit your agenda of hate.

Still waiting for you to step up and take the challenge.

You see what i am talking about, just further proof of everything I have said about Flyer.

House said:

You see what i am talking about, just further proof of everything I have said about Flyer.

Let's see; namecalling; 'coward', 'cowardly little man', 'liar', 'lies'.....

You haven't yet quipped; 'liar, liar, pants on fire', yet.

Unfortunately for you, the truth is still that all of the pro peloton is on some form of drugs. Tous Dope!

Dosages, frequencies, types, combinations, stacking, tapering, wether you are a lead dog or a worker bee all influence how doped you are at any given time.

Not every athlete dopes precisely the same way or has the same drugsor protocols.

Obviously, rider switch teams as do their doctors (Ulrich follows him from Telekom to Coast and back to T-Mobile) (Ferrari stays with Lance Armstrong for 10 years) (Cecchini stayed with Tyler Hamilton)

House, your foundation is a cracked as your bad manners.

Here a list requested by House to prove that doping is widespread in the peloton and with TDF Champions in particular. (Pantani, Merckx, Anquetil, Coppi)

It is not hard to do since 100% of the pros dope!

Paola Pezzo. She went nandrolone positive on September 6, 1997. She demanded to be retested--and went positive three more times!

She got off and kept her World Championship.

Then Filip Meirhaeghe admitted EPO use on August 4, 2004. He never tested positive---just like Lance.

Then Chelsea Redwood went positive for phettermine on September 26, 2004 at Mammouth Mtn.

Daivd Millar, Oscar Camenzind, Laurent Brochard (winner last weekend) over LA in 24th, Alex Zulle, Richard Virenque, Pascal Herve, Gianluca Botolami, Santiago Botero, Guido Bontempi, Philippe Guamont, Jesus Manzano, Filippo Simeoni, Philippe Boyer, Eddie Merckx (5-time TDF), Fausto Coppi, Jacques Anquetil (5-time TDF), Djamonlidine Abdoujaparov, Kim Andersen, Pascal Lino, Freddy Maertens (most TDF stage wins & 2 World Titles), Paul Kimmage, Jan Janssen, Gerrie Knetemann (just died at age 53), Jan Kirsipuu, Sean Kelly, Bo Hamburger, Cyrille Guimard, Ivan Gotti, Alexi Grewal, Jacky Durand, Neil Stephens, Joop Zoetermelk, Matt White, Francesco Moser, Christophe Moreau, Peter Winnen, Stephano Zannini, Denis Zanette (died at age 32) Andri Van Der Poel, Johann Van Der Velde, Johann Museeuw (Lion of Flanders), Ramundas Rumsas, 2002 Jan Ulrich (1 time TDF) amphetamines, Pavel Tonkov, Jose Maria Jeminez (died at age 32) Marco Pantani (died at age 34), et al....

Add one more for #50: Eddy Plankaert, EPO admission on Belgian TV.

These are the whose who of cycling. (past & present)

Feel free to add your own dopers (Hamilton, Perez, Hondo)

Tous Dope ---they are all on drugs!

Da![/QUOTE]

I'll make a deal with you. You come up with concrete, admissable in a court proof that all of the peloton dopes and i will leave here forever, if not you do. I'll give you 24 hours. I'm betting you won't do it, just like you won't step up and take the challenge. You are flailing little man.

Your foundation isn't cracked, you are.

You will welch on that deal like all your others.

You will not accept even a 'tearful coffession'.

I gave you 53 names of dopers--including many TDF champions. According to you, a TDF can be won w/o drugs.

If you don't grasp the issue. DENIAL is the standard response of a guilty athlete. None of the name I wrote admitted to doping while employed---only in retirement or under police duress, as in the case of Millar.

Lance's Doctor was convicted---so I guess that means Lance's performance is too---as Michele Ferrari was his 'performance consultant' That is Lance's personal description of Dr. EPO or HBOC!

btw: Tyler Hamilton whom you presume a doper---has not had his USADA appeal ruling yet. He may still be suiting up for the July 2005 Tour. Perez or no Perez.

House said:

I'll make a deal with you. You come up with concrete, admissable in a court proof that all of the peloton dopes and i will leave here forever, if not you do. I'll give you 24 hours. I'm betting you won't do it, just like you won't step up and take the challenge. You are flailing little man.

Your foundation isn't cracked, you are.