Doping in Cycling · Public discussion

Calling Out Flyer

Started by House · · Last activity · 56 posts · 11,732 views

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Doping in Cycling
Published
31 March 2005
Last activity
21 April 2005
Original author
House
Posts
56
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  1. I agree that a lot of the evidence Flyer sites isn't so strong. And I've bickered with him about it. But I think all of need to realize that, even though we love it, our sport has a major, serious, terrible doping problem. The #3 ranked man on the new ProTour standings just tested positive. You'd havehoped some riders would expressed disappointment this week. Hell, how about a little outrage? If I was Thor Hushovd, I'd be raising hell about a cheater knocking me out of 2nd out Milan-San Remo. But instead, it seems like the sport just had a little shrug and moved on.

    We're not talking about 3rd rate riders trying to hold on to a spot on a pro team. We're talking about guys at the top of the sport. The doping problem has not been solved; it's deep roots still obviously have a powerful hold on ridrers. To that extent, Flyer has a lot worth listening to.

  2. But what you have to realise is that Flyer doesn't care whether we know there is a problem, which all of us who follow the sport know, he only wants every one of the condemn everyone in the peloton at the top of our voices. Just look at the things he says. Not once have I said there is no doping in cycling, yet he repeatedly implys that I have.

  3. Thanks tcklyde:

    Couple of quick points:

    1) I was told by a former LA teammate (no I will not name him) that the doping mentality used to be one of 'trauma medicine'. That is to help rejuvenate a rider back to 100% in the minimum time (20 hours).

    Because House et al... apparently have never competed in long stage races or trained at the minimum level to make a top team---they have no understanding for the impossiblity of recovery at this excessively high training volume.

    The pro schedule is far beyond what an organic rider can cope with, regardless of talent or work ethic.

    Anyway, trauma doping is augmented by performance doping---that is to gain an edge beyond what is normal for a star rider. Not every person of a team needs to use this secondary approach. Usually just the stars. That's why they are paid the big bucks.

    Obviously, if all riders could function w/o drugs--they would. But they cannot.

    2) In the past 20 years, the only top or TDF level riders I heard rumors about as being anti-dopers were:
    Alexi Grewal, Andy Hampsten, Charley Mottet, Christophe Bassons.

    Having said this----these guys all used trauma drugs as needed--but perhaps did not pursue the more aggressive PEDs.

    It's all about 1) the definitions of drugs 2) your specific job on the squad.

    3) Lots of U-23 riders are doped too. Maybe not 100%, but a high percentage.

    If this provides edcuation, so be it. It is not an attempt to destroy cycling---just the reverse.

    tcklyde said:

    I agree that a lot of the evidence Flyer sites isn't so strong. And I've bickered with him about it. But I think all of need to realize that, even though we love it, our sport has a major, serious, terrible doping problem. The #3 ranked man on the new ProTour standings just tested positive. You'd havehoped some riders would expressed disappointment this week. Hell, how about a little outrage? If I was Thor Hushovd, I'd be raising hell about a cheater knocking me out of 2nd out Milan-San Remo. But instead, it seems like the sport just had a little shrug and moved on.

    We're not talking about 3rd rate riders trying to hold on to a spot on a pro team. We're talking about guys at the top of the sport. The doping problem has not been solved; it's deep roots still obviously have a powerful hold on ridrers. To that extent, Flyer has a lot worth listening to.

  4. Flyer if you were any more full of [censored]. I love how after getting your ass handed to you by everyone you suddenly remember all these friends of yours. What a joke! I also love how you get defensive about the people you supposedly know but then make assumptions about others. I guarantee you that you have never come close to the levels of sport that I have. You are a joke and you prove it with every post, never saying anything new, just repeating the few "facts" that everyone has already heard about.

  5. I was unaware that cursing and insulting were allowed on this forum. Really classy.

    I was aware that presumption and ignorance were.

    Here is some more perspective of why doping and elite sports are inexplicibly linked:

    cnrs.frdopage2.html

    Again, no conspiracy--just a way of life.

  6. Again, no real responses, just more of the same things posted over and over by the joke of the forum.

  7. New! Never been posted by me ever before!

    House won't read it, but others may do so.

    Here is some more perspective of why doping and elite sports are inexplicibly linked:

    cnrs.frdopage2.html

    Again, no conspiracy--just a way of life, as is belief that somehow sporting fraud is not financial fraud. So it's cool.

    The end justifies the means is an aurgument.

  8. What do you know, flyer reposts the same thing because he did not get enough attention. What a joke.

  9. This was from 1998. More powerful drugs are now being used----such as HBOCs.

    cnrs.frdopage2.html

    Imagine your worst fear--then multiply by 100.

    It's a huge story.

  10. Three posts in a row, the same thing.

    I am getting bored with you, you have proven everything i said about you is true. Have fun with your mental masterbation.

  11. laf.orglaf.org

    Check this out concerning all you "NEED" to know about Lance armstrong ......

  12. btw: As an athlete---and cancer survivor---one can still be engulfed by the industry of commercial sport. It is more powerful than any Corinthean concept.

    cnrs.frdopage2.html

    Insights inside. Read at your peril.

  13. wolfix said:

    laf.orglaf.org

    Check this out concerning all you "NEED" to know about Lance armstrong ......


    I think everyone would want to read this concerning Lance Armstrong too ..... sherylcrow.comnews.asp

  14. Also, for perspective you'll want to follow along with the continuing and still active doping investigation of yet another of Lance's former USPO teammates, Cedric Vasseur.

    Cedric was Lance's teammate in 2000-2001. He is still on waivers from Team Codidis for his botched cocaine traces in 2004 and involvement with systematic doping at Cofidis. Police curruption is alleged with his signed/forged confession so that must be a mitigating factor in one element.

    However, Vasseur was Lance's teammate before he was David Millar & Philippe Gaumont's (two admitted cheats), and also Massimiliano Lelli.

    It seems that a common link amongst the Cofidis riders was that both Millar & Gaumont claim that they were doped by trainer Massimo De Ritis--and that so too were Vasseur & Lelli.

    Anyway, Cedric Vasseur was back in front of Judge Richard Pallain in Nanterre on March 30, just 6 days ago.

    So Vasseur is not off the hook yet!

    At this time LA has at least six (6) lawsuits going all re: doping allegations or witness tampering, and another two criminal police investigations.

    Both Vasseur & Armstrong are very busy with legal matters as 2005 unfolds.

    Jim Rome & Opra won't be discussing these news items.

  15. Flyer said:

    Naming names.

    I may never name specific names directly. If I did,several things will happen---all bad. I may name some names, indirectly. There is so much doping (at 100%) obviously, I will end up naming a name that I do know personally. It is impossible not to. But I will not confirm it becasue:

    1) You won't believe me when I name the specific folks---many names you would recognize. But you'll deny it, calling it 'a jealous lie' or a 'cowardly act'.

    2) I would put these folks in a direct conflict with their employers and industry peers.

    3) Some of the names will publicly deny their private doping remarks----as they would have financial adverse consequences if they confirmed them.

    Flyer, I believe that the quote above is true. This leads me to some questions: Since you won't name names because of your reasons #s 2 and 3, does that make you an enabler? Are you not feeding the money hungry dope machine by keeping these names private? Wouldn't some one who is really apposed to doping in the sport blow the whistle? After all of your posts in this forum, we find out that you actually support doping in you own way? Why do you make it easier fot these people to make their money in this dirty industry by not calling them out?

  16. tas1978 said:

    Flyer, I believe that the quote above is true. This leads me to some questions: Since you won't name names because of your reasons #s 2 and 3, does that make you an enabler? Are you not feeding the money hungry dope machine by keeping these names private? Wouldn't some one who is really apposed to doping in the sport blow the whistle? After all of your posts in this forum, we find out that you actually support doping in you own way? Why do you make it easier fot these people to make their money in this dirty industry by not calling them out?


    Excellent point. Go read through some of his archive and you soon realise that by using his idea of "proof" of doping that he would be a doper himself. It's quite amusing. Any bet he makes some little comment then just reposts one of the same five posts he uses over and over?

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