Weird Hamburger

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 12:59:06 +0100, Ellie C <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this ground
beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount of
olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is usual
with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of events: I
heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water, enough
so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this mean
the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

Some places, when they grind beef for hamburger, toss ice cubes into
the grinder. It chills the meat....also adds wieght to the ground
meat....ice is very inexpensive.

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

I'd say that water is being added to the ground meat, either
deliberately or as a "side effect" of its handling. I'd urge you to
find another source for your meat, esp for ground meat.

I had an experience similar to yours a number of years ago. The ground
beef bought at a nation-wide chain store oozed a lot of water when
fried...and what was oozing was clearly water and not fat. Not at all
natural and I never again bought meat (or much of anything else) from
that chain.

Mac

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It's possible water was added but not highly unlikely with plain ground
meat, markets do not want to risk stiff fines for mislabeling. However
with sausage ice is often added, but then the package would say "Water
Added" and what percent. Animal flesh is normally about 75% water, so
if cooked at too low a temperature water will exude and need to
evaporate before the meat can brown... you need to increase the cooking
temperature so that the water naturally contained in the meat
evaporates more quickly than it exudes. You are very likely
overloading your pan... try browning only a samll amount of meat at a
time. Of course you shouldn't be using stupidmarket ground meat in the
first place, get yourself a meat grinder, then you'll know what and who
is in your meat.

Quoted message said:

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

I'd say that water is being added to the ground meat, either
deliberately or as a "side effect" of its handling. I'd urge you to
find another source for your meat, esp for ground meat.

I had an experience similar to yours a number of years ago. The ground
beef bought at a nation-wide chain store oozed a lot of water when
fried...and what was oozing was clearly water and not fat. Not at all
natural and I never again bought meat (or much of anything else) from
that chain.

Mac

I'll have to try some hamburger from the other store in town, see if
it's as bad. I have to say that all the ground beef I find here (in
France) is a bit strange. But then so is the beef before it's ground. If
I ever get back to the US, first thing I'm going to have is a steak that
tastes good! The best steaks I've had here are worse than the worst
steaks I've ever had in the US. French beef is horrible. Ditto French
pork. French chicken, on the other hand, is heaven compared to US chicken.

Sheldon said:

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It's possible water was added but not highly unlikely with plain ground
meat, markets do not want to risk stiff fines for mislabeling. However
with sausage ice is often added, but then the package would say "Water
Added" and what percent. Animal flesh is normally about 75% water, so
if cooked at too low a temperature water will exude and need to
evaporate before the meat can brown... you need to increase the cooking
temperature so that the water naturally contained in the meat
evaporates more quickly than it exudes. You are very likely
overloading your pan... try browning only a samll amount of meat at a
time. Of course you shouldn't be using stupidmarket ground meat in the
first place, get yourself a meat grinder, then you'll know what and who
is in your meat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I should grind my own beef, but it's not
something I'm really interested in doing. Life is too short to do
everything perfectly.;-) I do have a meat grinder but it's a hand
operated one and I used it once. That was enough. I know, I can hear you
saying something like "Well get an electric one." Sure. Except that if I
turn on the electric oven or a hairdryer I have to be sure to turn off
the electric heater in at least one room or I'll blow the circuit
breakers and have to reset that damned clock radio for the 14th time
that day. So another electrical appliance is not an option; it would
just be another annoyance. Besides they cost about 100 euros and it's
hard to think of spending that mich on something that will only make me
spend more time doing something I'm not interested in doing.

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on the
highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible,
though. Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit of
it first and then adding more.

Ellie C said:

Sheldon said:

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using

hamburger

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a

few

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It's possible water was added but not highly unlikely with plain

ground

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meat, markets do not want to risk stiff fines for mislabeling.

However

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with sausage ice is often added, but then the package would say

"Water

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Added" and what percent. Animal flesh is normally about 75% water,

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if cooked at too low a temperature water will exude and need to
evaporate before the meat can brown... you need to increase the

cooking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

temperature so that the water naturally contained in the meat
evaporates more quickly than it exudes. You are very likely
overloading your pan... try browning only a samll amount of meat at

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time. Of course you shouldn't be using stupidmarket ground meat in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

first place, get yourself a meat grinder, then you'll know what and

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is in your meat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I should grind my own beef, but it's not
something I'm really interested in doing. Life is too short to do
everything perfectly.;-) I do have a meat grinder but it's a hand
operated one and I used it once. That was enough. I know, I can hear

you

Quoted message said:

saying something like "Well get an electric one." Sure. Except that

if I

Quoted message said:

turn on the electric oven or a hairdryer I have to be sure to turn

off

Quoted message said:

the electric heater in at least one room or I'll blow the circuit
breakers and have to reset that damned clock radio for the 14th time
that day. So another electrical appliance is not an option; it would
just be another annoyance. Besides they cost about 100 euros and it's

Quoted message said:

hard to think of spending that mich on something that will only make

me

Quoted message said:

spend more time doing something I'm not interested in doing.

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on

the

Quoted message said:

highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible,
though. Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit

of

Quoted message said:

it first and then adding more.

You have a lot of problems and no solutions.

Sheldon

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Ellie C said:

Sheldon said:

Ellie C wrote:

>I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using

hamburger

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

>beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

>olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

>with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

>heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a

few

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

>so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

>the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
>"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
>crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It's possible water was added but not highly unlikely with plain

ground

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

meat, markets do not want to risk stiff fines for mislabeling.

However

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with sausage ice is often added, but then the package would say

"Water

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Added" and what percent. Animal flesh is normally about 75% water,

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

if cooked at too low a temperature water will exude and need to
evaporate before the meat can brown... you need to increase the

cooking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

temperature so that the water naturally contained in the meat
evaporates more quickly than it exudes. You are very likely
overloading your pan... try browning only a samll amount of meat at

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

time. Of course you shouldn't be using stupidmarket ground meat in

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

first place, get yourself a meat grinder, then you'll know what and

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is in your meat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I should grind my own beef, but it's not
something I'm really interested in doing. Life is too short to do
everything perfectly.;-) I do have a meat grinder but it's a hand
operated one and I used it once. That was enough. I know, I can hear

you

Quoted message said:

saying something like "Well get an electric one." Sure. Except that

if I

Quoted message said:

turn on the electric oven or a hairdryer I have to be sure to turn

off

Quoted message said:

the electric heater in at least one room or I'll blow the circuit
breakers and have to reset that damned clock radio for the 14th time
that day. So another electrical appliance is not an option; it would
just be another annoyance. Besides they cost about 100 euros and it's

Quoted message said:

hard to think of spending that mich on something that will only make

me

Quoted message said:

spend more time doing something I'm not interested in doing.

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on

the

Quoted message said:

highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible,
though. Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit

of

Quoted message said:

it first and then adding more.

You have a lot of problems and no solutions.

Sheldon

my suggestion is use a regular pan, but a bigger one. Clock radios are
cheap...ones with battery back up are not much more in price. Get your
electric upgraded to more amps larger breaker panel and add more circuts.
Insulate so heaters aren't required in every room. Or move to a more
modern dwelling. Having the breakers trip 14 times a day can indicate a
fire hazard or bad/weakened breakers.

--
No Bread Crumbs were hurt in the making of this Meal.
Type 2 Diabetic 1AC 5.6mmol or 101mg/dl
Continuing to be Manitoban

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on the
highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible, though.
Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit of it first
and then adding more.

Sheldon is right on the money!

You have the sequence wrong - Heat the pan then add the oil. To test the pan
see if a bead of water dances.

All ground beef will steam in its own juices (natural) if there is not
enough heat. That fact is undeniable. Therefore if your ground beef would
not fry but rather steamed there was more cold meat than the stored up heat
in the pan could handle.

Dimitri

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this ground
beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount of
olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is usual
with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of events: I
heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water, enough
so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this mean
the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It sounds like you are starting with too low a heat, or put too much
ground beef in the pan at once, or are using a pan with low thermal mass
(e.g, aluminum vs iron), or using too small a pan, or a combination of the
above. The hint was the release of water - a sign of a pan chilling sometime
during the process
The meat browns because of its immediate contact with a source of heat
large enough to fry the surface before the source cools below frying
temperature-
e.g., you need a large slab of metal that holds heat (there is a reason
iron takes longer than aluminum to heat - its storing that heat from the
burner instead of immediately passing it on), enough oil to "deep fry" the
surface (the hot oil transfers its internal heat to the food until it cools)
, etc.
The idea is to have a pan capable of keeping temp, and not dumping all the
meat in, thus to keep the meat from "chilling the pan"

To brown well, use a 10" iron skillet with a layer of oil on the bottom
heated to medium high (that's roughly just before smoking, and where a bit
of meat sizzles when dropped in), and put in just enough meat at a time to
thinly cover the bottom.
I can't do much more than a half a pound at a time in a 10" iron.

Seasoned iron does a much better job of browning than teflon coatings,
stainless, or aluminum.
In one experiment we did with iron, stainless, and aluminum, the same
amount of meat wouldn't even brown in an aluminum or teflon pan, was so-so
in stainless, and browned evenly and fully in seasoned iron.

(Alternatively, you can also brown meat in the oven on a shallow pan at 450.
Takes a couple minutes or so. Works well especially if you have a large
amount to do and a good fan hood.)

Ellie C said:

Quoted message said:

Ellie C said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using

hamburger

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this

ground

Quoted message said:

beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount

of

Quoted message said:

olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is

usual

Quoted message said:

with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of

events: I

Quoted message said:

heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a

few

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,

enough

Quoted message said:

so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this

mean

Quoted message said:

the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

I'd say that water is being added to the ground meat, either
deliberately or as a "side effect" of its handling. I'd urge you

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

find another source for your meat, esp for ground meat.

I had an experience similar to yours a number of years ago. The

ground

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

beef bought at a nation-wide chain store oozed a lot of water when
fried...and what was oozing was clearly water and not fat. Not at

all

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

natural and I never again bought meat (or much of anything else)

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that chain.

Mac

It is more likely that you are putting too much beef in the pan at
once, so you end up steaming it instead of browning it. Use a more
shallow fry pan - try doing 1/4 pound or 1/2 pound at a time, instead
of more than that.

Any meat, when crowded into the pan, will steam instead of brown...I
sincerely doubt that ice cubes in the grinder (would melt super fast
and be gone from the product before packaging) or any other means of
injecting water into the ground beef is going on.

N.

Dimitri said:

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on the
highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible, though.
Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit of it first
and then adding more.

Sheldon is right on the money!

You have the sequence wrong - Heat the pan then add the oil. To test the pan
see if a bead of water dances.

All ground beef will steam in its own juices (natural) if there is not
enough heat. That fact is undeniable. Therefore if your ground beef would
not fry but rather steamed there was more cold meat than the stored up heat
in the pan could handle.

Dimitri

I think y'all are overlooking the comment that Ellie made that she is in
*France*. In the USA, ground beef is about the only meat you can get at
the supermarkets that is not pumped full of water -- only because it is
illegal to add water to ground beef (as Sheldon mentioned). But the
USDA regulations don't apply to whatever is sold at the local butcher
shop in Europe.

It sounds like the butcher is adding a bunch of crushed ice when he
grinds the meat. Ellie needs to find a different butcher.

The meat is probably still usable if she fries it in tiny batches over
high heat so the water can boil off as quickly as it cooks out.

Best regards,
Bob

zxcvbob said:

<snip>
It sounds like the butcher is adding a bunch of crushed ice when he
grinds the meat. Ellie needs to find a different butcher.

The meat is probably still usable if she fries it in tiny batches

over

Quoted message said:

high heat so the water can boil off as quickly as it cooks out.

I assume that from what some of the other posters said that they
themselves have never encountered ground beef infused with water. The
amount of water exuded is astonishing and is unmistakable. The amount
of water has nothing to do with how hot the pan is, how loaded with
beef, etc. In my one experience with ground beef that I'm absolutely
positive had been infused with water, a single patty (maybe about 5-6
oz) I was frying gave off at least 1/8 a cup of water, probably more.
I remember pouring off the water so that the burger would fry instead
of braise. I have not encountered that again; in fact, I haven't
encountered again free water in the pan with ground beef, even a pan
full of ground beef that I was browning.

I think that we're right to think that our marketplace is remarkably
free of fraud (mislabeled meat, water infusion, etc) but it still
occurs, along with a few other tricks of the greedy merchant. Ellie
I'm sure has encountered a fraudulant butcher in France. Her kitchen
sense and experience has told her that, her description "confirms" it
IMO.

Mac

-- said:

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this ground
beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount of
olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is usual
with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of events: I
heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water, enough
so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this mean
the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It sounds like you are starting with too low a heat, or put too much
ground beef in the pan at once, or are using a pan with low thermal mass
(e.g, aluminum vs iron), or using too small a pan, or a combination of the
above. The hint was the release of water - a sign of a pan chilling sometime
during the process

Copper pan, heated until very hgot, oil added. I cook this meat the same
way I have always cooked it and it behaved differently than what I'm
used to. Perhaps I should have spelled this out more clearly.

....

Quoted message said:

To brown well, use a 10" iron skillet with a layer of oil on the bottom
heated to medium high (that's roughly just before smoking, and where a bit
of meat sizzles when dropped in), and put in just enough meat at a time to
thinly cover the bottom.
I can't do much more than a half a pound at a time in a 10" iron.

Seasoned iron does a much better job of browning than teflon coatings,
stainless, or aluminum.

Quoted message said:

In one experiment we did with iron, stainless, and aluminum, the same
amount of meat wouldn't even brown in an aluminum or teflon pan, was so-so
in stainless, and browned evenly and fully in seasoned iron.

Yes, I agree completely. Typically, I would use seasoned iron, which is
my favorite. But since in this case I would be adding tomato sauce I
didn't use my iron pans. What surprised me is not that the meat produced
some water, but that there was so much more than I have ever seen, and
this seems to be the case consistently. My husband has commented on it
as well. We're both retired and have been cooking a lot of years. We're
comparing this to previous experience.

Quoted message said:

(Alternatively, you can also brown meat in the oven on a shallow pan at 450.
Takes a couple minutes or so. Works well especially if you have a large
amount to do and a good fan hood.)

I should also note that it is possible that the meat was frozen by the
processor or market at too low a temperature, and the cells broke from the
larger ice crystals that form, letting out more water from the cells than
usual when it was ground.
Or if it was thawed and frozen several times after grinding, again in a
freezer not below 0F, it might damage the cells and appear more watery.
(I will also add that that would be unusual for US beef - I do not think
it is ever ground from thawed frozen meat, let alone meat frozen at a
too-high temperature.)

And note that farmers will load their cattle with water before shipping -
primarily because it reduces shipping stress, and thus minimizes weight
loss in transit - (I heard somewhere that as much as 150 lbs is lost per
animal in some areas in some shippings, around a hundred bucks per animal
for the farmer, or worse if the animal dies in transit.)

Keeping the pan hot and frying smaller bits should compensate for it,
anyway.

"--" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using hamburger
from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this ground
beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount of
olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is usual
with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of events: I
heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a few
seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water, enough
so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this mean
the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.

It sounds like you are starting with too low a heat, or put too much
ground beef in the pan at once, or are using a pan with low thermal mass
(e.g, aluminum vs iron), or using too small a pan, or a combination of the
above. The hint was the release of water - a sign of a pan chilling

sometime

Quoted message said:

during the process
The meat browns because of its immediate contact with a source of heat
large enough to fry the surface before the source cools below frying
temperature-
e.g., you need a large slab of metal that holds heat (there is a reason
iron takes longer than aluminum to heat - its storing that heat from the
burner instead of immediately passing it on), enough oil to "deep fry" the
surface (the hot oil transfers its internal heat to the food until it

cools)

Quoted message said:

, etc.
The idea is to have a pan capable of keeping temp, and not dumping all

the

Quoted message said:

meat in, thus to keep the meat from "chilling the pan"

To brown well, use a 10" iron skillet with a layer of oil on the bottom
heated to medium high (that's roughly just before smoking, and where a bit
of meat sizzles when dropped in), and put in just enough meat at a time to
thinly cover the bottom.
I can't do much more than a half a pound at a time in a 10" iron.

Seasoned iron does a much better job of browning than teflon coatings,
stainless, or aluminum.
In one experiment we did with iron, stainless, and aluminum, the same
amount of meat wouldn't even brown in an aluminum or teflon pan, was so-so
in stainless, and browned evenly and fully in seasoned iron.

(Alternatively, you can also brown meat in the oven on a shallow pan at

450.

Quoted message said:

Takes a couple minutes or so. Works well especially if you have a large
amount to do and a good fan hood.)

Quoted message said:

zxcvbob said:

<snip>
It sounds like the butcher is adding a bunch of crushed ice when he
grinds the meat. Ellie needs to find a different butcher.

The meat is probably still usable if she fries it in tiny batches

over

Quoted message said:

high heat so the water can boil off as quickly as it cooks out.

I assume that from what some of the other posters said that they
themselves have never encountered ground beef infused with water. The
amount of water exuded is astonishing and is unmistakable. The amount
of water has nothing to do with how hot the pan is, how loaded with
beef, etc. In my one experience with ground beef that I'm absolutely
positive had been infused with water, a single patty (maybe about 5-6
oz) I was frying gave off at least 1/8 a cup of water, probably more.
I remember pouring off the water so that the burger would fry instead
of braise. I have not encountered that again; in fact, I haven't
encountered again free water in the pan with ground beef, even a pan
full of ground beef that I was browning.

I think that we're right to think that our marketplace is remarkably
free of fraud (mislabeled meat, water infusion, etc) but it still
occurs, along with a few other tricks of the greedy merchant. Ellie
I'm sure has encountered a fraudulant butcher in France. Her kitchen
sense and experience has told her that, her description "confirms" it
IMO.

Mac

Thank you. It's nice to find someone who is willing to entertain the
idea that I actually know how to cook. This meat came from a chain
grocery store. Next time I'll go to the butcher down the street, who was
closed the day that I bought this hamburger.

Hahabogus said:

"Sheldon" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Ellie C said:

Sheldon wrote:

>Ellie C wrote:
>
>
>>I cooked up some American Chop Suey for lunch today, using

hamburger

Quoted message said:

>>from the local market. I've now come to the conclusion that this
>
>ground
>
>
>>beef is just weird. It's 15% fat, so I generally add a small amount
>
>of
>
>
>>olive oil to the pan before I start to brown the meat. But, as is
>
>usual
>
>
>>with this ground beef, it never browns. Here's the sequence of
>
>events: I
>
>
>>heat the olive oil in the frying pan, then I add the beef. For a

few

Quoted message said:

>>seconds it sizzles normally and then it starts releasing water,
>
>enough
>
>
>>so that it's actually boiling and it never browns again. Does this
>
>mean
>
>
>>the meat has been watered? If I cook it for a really long time the
>>"water" boils off, but the meat by this time has turned into little
>>crumbles and never becomes browned - the crumbles just get harder.
>
>
>It's possible water was added but not highly unlikely with plain

ground

Quoted message said:

>meat, markets do not want to risk stiff fines for mislabeling.

However

Quoted message said:

>with sausage ice is often added, but then the package would say

"Water

Quoted message said:

>Added" and what percent. Animal flesh is normally about 75% water,

so

Quoted message said:

>if cooked at too low a temperature water will exude and need to
>evaporate before the meat can brown... you need to increase the

cooking

Quoted message said:

>temperature so that the water naturally contained in the meat
>evaporates more quickly than it exudes. You are very likely
>overloading your pan... try browning only a samll amount of meat at

a

Quoted message said:

>time. Of course you shouldn't be using stupidmarket ground meat in

the

Quoted message said:

>first place, get yourself a meat grinder, then you'll know what and

who

Quoted message said:

>is in your meat.
>

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know I should grind my own beef, but it's not
something I'm really interested in doing. Life is too short to do
everything perfectly.;-) I do have a meat grinder but it's a hand
operated one and I used it once. That was enough. I know, I can hear

you

Quoted message said:

saying something like "Well get an electric one." Sure. Except that

if I

Quoted message said:

turn on the electric oven or a hairdryer I have to be sure to turn

off

Quoted message said:

the electric heater in at least one room or I'll blow the circuit
breakers and have to reset that damned clock radio for the 14th time
that day. So another electrical appliance is not an option; it would
just be another annoyance. Besides they cost about 100 euros and it's

Quoted message said:

hard to think of spending that mich on something that will only make

me

Quoted message said:

spend more time doing something I'm not interested in doing.

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on

the

Quoted message said:

highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible,
though. Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit

of

Quoted message said:

it first and then adding more.

You have a lot of problems and no solutions.

Sheldon

my suggestion is use a regular pan, but a bigger one. Clock radios are
cheap...ones with battery back up are not much more in price. Get your
electric upgraded to more amps larger breaker panel and add more circuts.
Insulate so heaters aren't required in every room. Or move to a more
modern dwelling. Having the breakers trip 14 times a day can indicate a
fire hazard or bad/weakened breakers.

Well, I live in France. This is how things work here. The elec in the
house is all new. Even though there about 12 different circuits,
overloading one causes everything to go off. That's how it is, my
electrician tell me. The heaters in every room *are* the heat and it has
been quite cold here. As for insulating, well, it would be nice if
possible. We live in a small house with walls that are stone, about 1.5'
thick. There's no place to put insulation. (I'm sure there will be lots
of people who will be willing to tell me exactly how to insulate my
house in the next few posts. And here I thought I was asking about how
to tell if hamburger was watered...)

Move to a more modern dwelling? Geesh! Hah! And here I was asking about
cooking. And don't get me started about things like clock radios....
Living in France makes me really understand that the US is a consumer
wonderland. Granted, I am living in the back hills of France. Consumer
choice isn't large.

Ellie said:

Yes, I agree completely. Typically, I would use seasoned iron, which is my
favorite. But since in this case I would be adding tomato sauce I didn't
use my iron pans. What surprised me is not that the meat produced some
water, but that there was so much more than I have ever seen, and this
seems to be the case consistently. My husband has commented on it as well.
We're both retired and have been cooking a lot of years. We're comparing
this to previous experience.

I don't have anything to contribute to the central discussion about the
hamburger; I think it probably was adulterated with water, and there wasn't
anything you could have done to brown it. But this caught my eye:

Quoted message said:

Typically, I would use seasoned iron, which is my favorite. But since in
this case I would be adding tomato sauce I didn't use my iron pans.

You used a copper pan because you didn't want to use iron with tomato sauce?
But isn't copper a reactive surface also? Or was it coated on the inside?
My experience has been that if cast iron is seasoned well enough, the
seasoning prevents the chemical reaction with acidic ingredients; maybe the
iron pan would have been a better choice (because of the heat retention
which others have mentioned).

Oh, there is one other thing: Hand-grinding meat isn't that big a deal,
unless you're grinding a LOT. If it was really difficult to grind beef using
your hand grinder, then maybe the grinder wasn't set up properly. (Or maybe
it was just poorly designed or poorly built. How long was the crank?)

Bob

In rec.food.cooking said:

You have the sequence wrong - Heat the pan then add the oil.

Why not just add the oil and then heat it all together?

--
In the councils of government, we must guard against the
acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought,
by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the
disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
-- Dwight David Eisenhower

On Wed, 09 Mar 2005 11:07:18 -0600, zxcvbob <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Dimitri said:

"Ellie C" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sheldon wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I don't think I was overloading the pan, and it was a copper pan on the
highest flame on a gas stove, so the pan was quite hot. Possible, though.
Next time I buy some ground beef I'll try cooking just a bit of it first
and then adding more.

Sheldon is right on the money!

You have the sequence wrong - Heat the pan then add the oil. To test the pan
see if a bead of water dances.

All ground beef will steam in its own juices (natural) if there is not
enough heat. That fact is undeniable. Therefore if your ground beef would
not fry but rather steamed there was more cold meat than the stored up heat
in the pan could handle.

Dimitri

I think y'all are overlooking the comment that Ellie made that she is in
*France*. In the USA, ground beef is about the only meat you can get at
the supermarkets that is not pumped full of water -- only because it is
illegal to add water to ground beef (as Sheldon mentioned). But the
USDA regulations don't apply to whatever is sold at the local butcher
shop in Europe.

It sounds like the butcher is adding a bunch of crushed ice when he
grinds the meat. Ellie needs to find a different butcher.

The meat is probably still usable if she fries it in tiny batches over
high heat so the water can boil off as quickly as it cooks out.

Best regards,
Bob

Several people here have posted that they have doubts about ice being
added to beef as it is being ground. I would not have posted my
original post if I had not observed this practice myself...more than
once. The water does not drain from the ground meat but stays there
until it is cooked, at which time the meat simply gets boiled. Also,
at least ham, and maybe other meats can contain up to 10% water
withour being labeled "Water added"