Induction question

Lilith79 said:

I'm forgetting something here, so I think I'll ask. In Atkins book,
eggs are listed as a free food. But Fitday and the USDA website
both state that there are .4 carbs per large cooked egg. I had 3
with breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality that
should be 1.2 carbs. Do I ignore this since the book says they're
free food, or do I count it?

IMHO all carbs count on Induction. About half your carbs should come
from salad veggies, the other half are from the "hidden" carbs in
things like eggs and cheese. But the difference between 1.2g and 2g
isn't a biggie - just choose one system of recording and stick with
it.

Quoted message said:

I've looked at my total carb count for the day, and it's
depressing. I'm already at 14g and I haven't had any snacks or
dinner yet!

That's about 2/3 of your daily carb count. Sounds like you're on
track. You might want to look at where most of your carbs are coming
from, in case you have one high-carb food on your list.

Note that some versions of Atkins limit you to 4oz cheese per day;
you're up to 6oz already (1/2c cottage = 4oz).

In article <[email hidden]>, momma.of.3
@sbcglobal.net says...

Quoted message said:

I'm forgetting something here, so I think I'll ask. In Atkins book,
eggs are listed as a free food. But Fitday and the USDA website both
state that there are .4 carbs per large cooked egg. I had 3 with
breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality that should be
1.2 carbs. Do I ignore this since the book says they're free food, or
do I count it?

In the beginning, it's a good idea to count EVERYTHING, particularly
since there can be a lot of HIDDEN carbs. Something may say it has zero
carbs or <1 carb on the nutritional info, but the reality is (in the US
anyway) that anything up TO .5 carbs can be labeled as zero and anything
less than one carb can be up to .9 carbs -- if you have enough of
something, they can add up quite quickly.

Quoted message said:

I've looked at my total carb count for the day, and it's depressing.
I'm already at 14g and I haven't had any snacks or dinner yet!

Breakfast
3 fried eggs w/ italian seasoning herbs
1/2 cup cottage cheese
8 oz black tea
16 oz water

Lunch
2 oz cream cheese
1 ham steak (approx 2 oz)
1.5 cups salad mix-Dole
2 Tbs Ranch
8 oz water

Yeah, it can rack up pretty quickly. That's why keeping track is so
important. As far as Fitday goes, pay attention to the ingredients when
you choose something like "fried eggs". You may or may not be using the
amounts of, for instance, butter, bacon grease or whatever to fry them.
In fact, I just looked up "egg fried" in Fitday and it has "Egg, whole,
fried" and "Egg, whole, cooked, fried". The first one has margarine and
salt added and the second one doesn't. The one with margarine and salt
shows 1.85 carbs and the other .626 for one egg. If you click on the
margarine link in the ingredients section off to the right (they figured
3.2 grams of margarine), it takes you to a margarine nutritional
listing, but grams aren't included in the portion sizing.

I find it's better to break things down into, for instance, 3 extra-
large (as opposed to small or jumbo) eggs and 1/2 tbl butter. If you
are using Fitday, you can build your own custom food to reflect what YOU
are using. I don't use Fitday other than to look things up for my own
database, partly because I was annoyed with some of it's assumptions,
but mostly because I just wanted more control and it was quicker to
build my own Excel database (well, quicker once I had BUILT most of the
database, anyway :-). When I add something new now, I'm more likely to
use the USDA nutritional database to figure it out. You can download
their database and their program to use that database. When I use it, I
usually change the default measurement from 100 grams to 28 grams (one
ounce) for my own use and then add the info I want (which is a lot less
voluminous than the info they present) to my own database.

BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

--
Saffire
205/145/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Quoted message said:

Note that some versions of Atkins limit you to 4oz cheese per day;
you're up to 6oz already (1/2c cottage = 4oz).

[censored], I didn't notice that. Doh! FWIW I'm following The NEW Diet
Revolution, and it lists cheese as free food too.

Lilith79 said:

In Atkins book, eggs are listed as a free food.

Free means *allowed* not *unlimited*: You are free to eat the listed
foods.

Count the carbs in *everything* towards your daily quota. Lots of
small
incidentals like the 0.3 per egg or 0.4 per tbl cream can add up to
5ish
per day. If you look at the sample menus in the back of the book and
do a surface count, some can appear to toal 10-15, but if you really
count everything like this sure enough they come out near 20.

Quoted message said:

I had 3 with breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality

that

Quoted message said:

should be 1.2 carbs.

Maybe fitday has the quantity wrong. A fraction of a cup rather than
each egg?

Lilith79 wrote:
|| I'm forgetting something here, so I think I'll ask. In Atkins book,
|| eggs are listed as a free food.

A free food? Eggs? Not in the long term surely. I consider something like
lettuce a free food in the sense that you can eat as much as could ever
dream of. However, nearly everything else must be eaten in moderation.

But Fitday and the USDA website both
|| state that there are .4 carbs per large cooked egg. I had 3 with
|| breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality that should
|| be
|| 1.2 carbs. Do I ignore this since the book says they're free food,
|| or do I count it?

Count it.

||
|| I've looked at my total carb count for the day, and it's depressing.
|| I'm already at 14g and I haven't had any snacks or dinner yet!
||

? Just eat meat and/or lettuce.

|| Breakfast
|| 3 fried eggs w/ italian seasoning herbs
|| 1/2 cup cottage cheese
|| 8 oz black tea
|| 16 oz water
||
|| Lunch
|| 2 oz cream cheese
|| 1 ham steak (approx 2 oz)
|| 1.5 cups salad mix-Dole
|| 2 Tbs Ranch
|| 8 oz water

"Lilith79" <: >
: > Note that some versions of Atkins limit you to 4oz cheese per day;
: > you're up to 6oz already (1/2c cottage = 4oz).
: [censored], I didn't notice that. Doh! FWIW I'm following The NEW Diet
: Revolution, and it lists cheese as free food too.

Cottage Cheese is not "pure" cheese---it has added sugar. On induction,
sugar is eliminated.

Pat in TX

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:
BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed. Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet
Revolution lists *free* foods, and cottage cheese is listed under the
cheeses. The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet cheeses,
whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

Quoted message said:

Pat wrote:
Cottage Cheese is not "pure" cheese---it has added sugar. On induction,
sugar is eliminated.

Where did you get that information? Cottage cheese does not have any
added sugar-unless the consumer puts it there. I've read the lables,
and I know how to make it from scratch. It's simply milk. Here's a
link to a REC
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Cottage/1288/soft/cottage.htm

It has milk added, but I don't think most has sugar. However, milk has some
carbs.

In news:[email hidden],
Pat <[email hidden]> stated
| "Lilith79" <: >
||| Note that some versions of Atkins limit you to 4oz cheese per day;
||| you're up to 6oz already (1/2c cottage = 4oz).
|| [censored], I didn't notice that. Doh! FWIW I'm following The NEW Diet
|| Revolution, and it lists cheese as free food too.
|
| Cottage Cheese is not "pure" cheese---it has added sugar. On
| induction, sugar is eliminated.
|
| Pat in TX

In article <[email hidden]>, momma.of.3
@sbcglobal.net says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:
BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed. Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet
Revolution lists *free* foods, and cottage cheese is listed under the
cheeses. The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet cheeses,
whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

They need to change their website, then.

--
Saffire
205/145/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

Lilith79 said:

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:
BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed. Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet
Revolution lists *free* foods, and cottage cheese is listed under the
cheeses. The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet
cheeses, whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

<snip>

I have no idea what version of the book you have but I'm going to suggest
that you make sure it was actually written by Dr. Atkins and not one of the
newer ones put out after his death.
I have two versions (1992 and 2002) and in neither does he use the term
"free foods". He does use the term Acceptable Foods.
In neither version (or on the website) is cottage cheese acceptable for
induction.
http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html

Saffire said:

They need to change their website, then.

No, they need to stop changing their minds. Cottage cheese is one of
the foods that changes from edition to edition.

DJ Delorie said:

Saffire said:

They need to change their website, then.

No, they need to stop changing their minds. Cottage cheese is one of
the foods that changes from edition to edition.

I've noticed that too and it is a real pain in the [censored]. I wish they
would make up thier minds once and for all.

On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 21:42:48 GMT, Lilith79 <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm forgetting something here, so I think I'll ask. In Atkins book,
eggs are listed as a free food. But Fitday and the USDA website both
state that there are .4 carbs per large cooked egg. I had 3 with
breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality that should be
1.2 carbs. Do I ignore this since the book says they're free food, or
do I count it?

I eat either large or extra large brown eggs. No matter what *anyone*
says and to avoid *any* confusion, I count each egg eaten as 1 carb.

I have too much to do to worry about a few microcarbs.

Lilith79 said:

Saffire said:

BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed.

The general sweep of the plan is changed very little since 1972
but numerous small details do change as those details get
thought out better.

When dairy wasn't counted at all in 1972 folks ate too much
dairy. So it got counted in 1993/1999, but folks still used it
as a substitute for veggies. In 2002 the 4 oz limit was added
and fresh cheezses forbidden during Induction. The aging
process consumes most of the carbs bringing aged cheeses
down to the range of 1 gram per ounce. Cottage frssh is a
fresh cheese that is not aged. It retains most of the carbs
from the whole milk it is made from. You'd have to limit it to
a few spoons to keep your count low enough, so it got
forbidden.

Quoted message said:

Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet Revolution

You need to specify what edition. 1972, 1993, 1999, 2002 or
the latest on the web page. When versions disagree usually
the newest version wins except changes to the web site after
Dr A's death.

Quoted message said:

lists *free* foods,

Irrelevant. You want free to mean unlimited. It means allowed.

Quoted message said:

The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet cheeses,
whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

Unless you understand the simplicity of the principles so you
can figure out why changes got made. Cottage cheese has too
high a carb count for Inductio n when eaten in the usual half
cup servings.

Quoted message said:

Pat wrote:

Cottage Cheese is not "pure" cheese---it has added sugar.

The sugar isn't added. It was there in the milk. The point is
aged cheeses have had their carbs reduced in the fermentation
process and cottage cheese is fresh not aged.

Quoted message said:

Cottage cheese does not have any added sugar-unless the
consumer puts it there. I've read the lables, and I know how
to make it from scratch. It's simply milk.

Whole milk that is not aged to reduce its carb count, which
is the point.

Jaime said:

I have too much to do to worry about a few microcarbs.

A few? Come on, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of
microcarbs! ;-)

Lilith79 said:

I'm forgetting something here, so I think I'll ask. In Atkins book,
eggs are listed as a free food. But Fitday and the USDA website both
state that there are .4 carbs per large cooked egg.

My copy of Fitday lists a large cooked egg as .73g carb.

Fitday, although it totals correctly when it counts nutrients, rounds
off on the displayed value. If you increase the number of large cooked
eggs to 10, you will see that Fitday lists 7g carbs. If you increase the
number to 100 large cooked eggs you will find that it now lists the carb
count as 73g. In other words, .73 gm per egg.

Fitday can change to whatever measuring format you would like to use. If
you change from a size of "large" eggs, to grams, you will find the same
thing, that Fitday lists a carb breakdown of .146g per hundred. If your
large egg weighs 50g, then your carb count is .73g. Unfortunately, 50g
is quite a small egg. If I buy large farm eggs, they weigh between
65&75g, up to half as much again as the "nominal" large egg.

You are far better off weighing all foods and using FitDay in either
grams, or pounds and ounces. Descriptions like large, medium, a cup, a
spoon, are subject to a very wide and often extremely inaccurate range
of interpretation.

I had 3 with

Quoted message said:

breakfast, and Fitday recorded it as 2g carbs-in reality that should be
1.2 carbs. Do I ignore this since the book says they're free food, or
do I count it?

None of it is "free" food. Even if the carb count is low enough to suit
your requirement, calories still count.

Quoted message said:

I've looked at my total carb count for the day, and it's depressing. I'm
already at 14g and I haven't had any snacks or dinner yet!

Breakfast
3 fried eggs w/ italian seasoning herbs
1/2 cup cottage cheese

Cottage cheese is good. Not many carbs and low cal.

Quoted message said:

8 oz black tea
16 oz water

Lunch
2 oz cream cheese

You need to be careful with some cream cheeses, many are very high calorie.

Quoted message said:

1 ham steak (approx 2 oz)

Ham, chicken breast, and uncoated/un-battered fish are always good.

Quoted message said:

1.5 cups salad mix-Dole
2 Tbs Ranch

Standard ranch dressing can be exceedingly high calorie. Some of the low
cal dressings taste just as good and a quite low in calories.

Quoted message said:

8 oz water

Contrary to the opinions of a great many (often very long-term
overweight) people on these groups, you don't really need to remain in
ketosis in order to lose weight. Cutting all junk carbs, watching
calories and adding a little exercise, brisk walking for instance, is
all it takes. I lost more than a quarter of my body weight between June
and August this year, am currently less than 5% body fat and have a
current BMI of 17.95, all without staying in ketosis, and without even
once walking away from a meal still hungry. I lost faster, and with less
difficulty than many people I am associated with (in diabetes groups),
who stayed in ketosis the whole time.

I started low then added carbs back in until reaching my current norm of
around 175-190 per day. My rate of weight loss didn't change when I
moved out of ketosis, and my energy levels increased substantially with
the extra carbs, enabling me to enjoy exercise, rather than suffer it. I
am slightly underweight now and am slowly adding back lean muscle mass.

I was not particularly overweight to start with, (4lbs above weight for
age and height) I dropped weight to control Blood Glucose levels, but it
was an interesting experiment none the less. I have been associated with
fitness and nutrition for many years and although having observed many
people using ketonic diets, it was my first personal experience. I see
no value in ketosis, but a great deal of value in cutting all
unnecessary carbs from a diet. In my opinion, reduced carb is a healthy
lifestyle choice, ketosis is a fad that puts long term health at risk.
Many people emphatically dispute this, but in order to do this, they
have to ignore or disparage a very large body of expert opinion.

Atkins died fat and if you want to do some research, you will find that
low carb diets have been documented for well over one hundred years. The
first fellow to propose low carb (1860's) was also very overweight when
he had his fatal heart attack. Nothing changes.

Regards

David

--

To email me, please include the letters DNF anywhere in the subject line.

All other mail is automatically deleted.

Jeri said:

Lilith79 said:

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:
BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed. Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet
Revolution lists *free* foods, and cottage cheese is listed under the
cheeses. The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet
cheeses, whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

<snip>

I have no idea what version of the book you have but I'm going to suggest
that you make sure it was actually written by Dr. Atkins and not one of the
newer ones put out after his death.
I have two versions (1992 and 2002) and in neither does he use the term
"free foods". He does use the term Acceptable Foods.
In neither version (or on the website) is cottage cheese acceptable for
induction.
http://atkins.com/Archive/2001/12/15-464579.html

My copy was printed in 1992, purchased in 2001 before his death. And,
yes, my copy states *free foods* at the top of the chart. I'd scan it
to prove it, but I don't have a scanner that works.

DJ Delorie said:

Jaime said:

I have too much to do to worry about a few microcarbs.

A few? Come on, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of
microcarbs! ;-)

I never said I was good at math. :-)

"Saffire" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, momma.of.3
@sbcglobal.net says...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Saffire wrote:
BTW, cottage cheese is not allowed during Induction.

Yes it is allowed. Page 96 of the paperback version of New Diet
Revolution lists *free* foods, and cottage cheese is listed under the
cheeses. The only limitation on cheeses on Induction are diet cheeses,
whey cheeses, or cheese spreads.

They need to change their website, then.

--
Saffire
205/145/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

What Saffy said.

One day, I'm going to get my own Saffy!