Induction question

DJ Delorie said:

Tracey said:

For induction, I am supposed to limit myself to 3 c. of low carb
veggies per day. WHY?

There was some thought that originally Atkins didn't subtract fiber,
so 3c of veggies adds up to 20g carbs pretty quickly.

"There was some thought" is caution without need. Every print
edition of the book came out before fiber deduction was added to
the plan. The cup amounts come from the print editions.

Quoted message said:

When you subtract fiber, you can eat a lot more veggies.

Here's my caution: There is some thought that the fiber
deduction was added for exactly this reason. Many people
abuse Induction by staying on it too long, so Induction was
redefined from a carb level were far under 1% fail to get into
ketosis to a level 5-10 higher were may be 1-2% fail to
get into ketosis. The higher amount of mandatory veggies
makes the folks who complain that Atkins forbids veggies
even worse liars than before.

Quoted message said:

IMHO ignore the 3c limit and use the 20g limit.

Without fiber deduction the cup amounts are a pretty good
dumbies guide to carb counting. The veggies in the salad
list or the ultra-low carb list are around 2.5 grams per cup
minus fiber. The veggies in the regular low carb list are
around 5 grams per cup minus the fiber. If you target 20
and don't subtract fiber, the cup guidelines give you at least
10 from veggies. Sure enough that matches the "at least
half from veggies" rule that is a basic principle. Then add in
the carbs from dairy, eggs, incidentals and it is very easy to
hit the quota of 20.

So if you deduct fiber, the cup guideline from the book is
completely obsolete. The cup guideline is for total carbs
not net carbs.

Keep counting everything. Keep targetting 20 total for the
day. Keep deducting fiber. Have plenty of vegges.

But back to why there's a limit at all: If you eat a serving
of brocolli the size of your head, that's still too much carbs
for Induction. Atkins forbids overeating as soon as the
initial cravings are gone and the carb quota is one more
way to forbid overeating.

There's a minimum limit on veggies and there's also a
maximum limit on veggies.

Especially when they have fallen and hit their head on the sidewalk.

In news:[email hidden],
Lilith79 <[email hidden]> stated
He was
| 72, people die at that age quite frequently.

"Tracey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

For induction, I
am supposed to limit myself to 3 c. of low carb veggies per day. WHY?
Today I was looking at my bag of salad mix (iceberg, romaine, carrots,
radish and red cabbage)...the bag lists 4 2.5 cup servings at 15 calories
per serving with 3 carb grams and 1 fiber gram (2 net carbs per serving).
If this salad mix has only 2 net carbs in one serving, why am I limited to
3
cups of veggies only? It seems to me that in terms of weight loss and
feeling 'full' I'd be better off eating the whole bag of salad than eating
a
hamburger along with my small serving of salad.

Whats the deal with this?

Actually, if you look at the Atkins site now - it's upped to 4 cups!

Eat about 20 grams of carbs each day, mostly in the form of salad greens
and other vegetables. You should eat at least four cups of salad vegetables,
or three cups of salad vegetables plus one cup of other vegetables
(see the Acceptable Vegetables List).

This is from the 'Ten Easy Steps To Induction' article at
http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/12/27-833156.html

I agree with 'eat as much lettuce as you want, keep it under the 20g a day'.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:50:10 -0500, "Amanda" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Actually, if you look at the Atkins site now - it's upped to 4 cups!

Eat about 20 grams of carbs each day, mostly in the form of salad greens
and other vegetables. You should eat at least four cups of salad vegetables,
or three cups of salad vegetables plus one cup of other vegetables
(see the Acceptable Vegetables List).

This is from the 'Ten Easy Steps To Induction' article at
http://atkins.com/Archive/2004/12/27-833156.html

Well for Crapsakes!!! When in the *heck* did they do *that*???

I've been doing the 2 cups of salad veggies and 1 cup of other veggies
for what seems like *forever* and have been wanting to have more
veggies when I still feel hungry several minutes after eating my meal.
If I had of *known* about that then I could have had them.
I can pack a lot of veggies into 1 cup. :-)

Quoted message said:

Better look at the label again. I was disappointed in how much
sugar is in cottage cheese.

"Is in" does not equal "was added". I am disappoint in how much
sugar is in pineapples but they don't have any added sugar.

Aged cheese is low carb because the fermentation process
removes the initial carbs. Fresh cheese is medium carb because
it still has the initial carbs from the whole milk.

GQ asked:

Quoted message said:

Doesn't it really depend on how someone's body reacts to them?

Everything depends on the body's reaction when it comes down to
it for folks on Atkins. Atkins is a process to cutomize what you
eat to your own body's reactions. It starts very conservative and
then gives you a process to become gradually less and less
conservative to findyour own limits. The more conservative you
are at the start, the more bases you cover. As long as you
actually *do* follow the process and not use it as a menu based
system.

Quoted message said:

Or am I wrong in thinking that?

You're right. That is the most important core principle there is
on Atkins.

Why is stuff forbidden during Induction? Because some percentage
of people have problems with it. If even 1% ave problems with
something, that's enough to get it banned during Induction because
Induction is supposed to be an ultra-conservative starting point. it
is the rest of the plan that is the experimentation time.

Why is so little forbidden for everyone for ever? Because Atkins
is a process to figure out what is okay for your body not a menu
intended to work for the average person. The only stuff that gets
banned completely is refined sugar and refined flour (sometimes
refined white rice also, depends on the exact version). That's
because those items cause problems with such a large percentage
of people it's worth banning them. But are they actually benned?
Atkins is a process not a menu. If you follow the process
carefully and you determine for certain you don't have issues
with while flour, then eat a little during your Maintenance phase.
That's how the custom tuning process works. But don't ever
bank on being able to have white flour on Maintenance just
because the process could conceiably lead you there. You have
to follow the process to learn for yourself.

: > Better look at the label again. I was disappointed in how much
: > sugar is in cottage cheese.
:
: "Is in" does not equal "was added". I am disappoint in how much
: sugar is in pineapples but they don't have any added sugar.
:
: Aged cheese is low carb because the fermentation process
: removes the initial carbs. Fresh cheese is medium carb because
: it still has the initial carbs from the whole milk.

Thank you for being the only one to notice that I didn't say sugar was
added. I was at a store today and make some notes on their cottage cheese:

Oak Farms 4% Cottage Cheese=4 carbs per 1/2 cup
Schepp's Dairy 4% Cottage Cheese=4 carbs per 1/2 cup
Schepp's Dairy No Fat cottage cheese= 5 carbs per 1/2 cup
Breakstone 2% Cottage Cheese= 6 grams carbs per 1/2 cup

One half of a cup of cottage cheese isn't much (well, for me, that is).
That's why I was disappointed in the numbers. Even the one with 2% milk had
6 grams of carbs in it! What bothers me is that the OP said it was a "free
food" and we both know nothing is free when it comes to food.

Pat in TX
:

Pat said:

: > Better look at the label again. I was disappointed in how much
: > sugar is in cottage cheese.
:
: "Is in" does not equal "was added". I am disappoint in how much
: sugar is in pineapples but they don't have any added sugar.
:
: Aged cheese is low carb because the fermentation process
: removes the initial carbs. Fresh cheese is medium carb because
: it still has the initial carbs from the whole milk.

Thank you for being the only one to notice that I didn't say sugar was
added. I was at a store today and make some notes on their cottage
cheese:

Oak Farms 4% Cottage Cheese=4 carbs per 1/2 cup
Schepp's Dairy 4% Cottage Cheese=4 carbs per 1/2 cup
Schepp's Dairy No Fat cottage cheese= 5 carbs per 1/2 cup
Breakstone 2% Cottage Cheese= 6 grams carbs per 1/2 cup

One half of a cup of cottage cheese isn't much (well, for me, that is).
That's why I was disappointed in the numbers. Even the one with 2% milk
had
6 grams of carbs in it! What bothers me is that the OP said it was a
"free
food" and we both know nothing is free when it comes to food.

Pat in TX
:

That's why I eat yoghurt instead. Anyone ever have fat-free cottage
cheese? On my low fat diet, I used to eat things like this. All I have
to say is, "Yuck!"

--
Bob in CT

"Jaime" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well for Crapsakes!!! When in the *heck* did they do *that*???

I've been doing the 2 cups of salad veggies and 1 cup of other veggies
for what seems like *forever* and have been wanting to have more
veggies when I still feel hungry several minutes after eating my meal.
If I had of *known* about that then I could have had them.
I can pack a lot of veggies into 1 cup. :-)

I think they just changed it in the new year. I just started in december,
and I clearly remember it being 3 on the site and 3 in the book.

Lactose.

--
Now [censored]. You cannot possibly be this stupid and remember to
breathe. You must be trolling. -- Carmen

"John Smyth®©" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"FOB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It has milk added, but I don't think most has sugar. However, milk has
some
carbs.

Milk sugar.

Quoted message said:

Especially when they have fallen and hit their head on the sidewalk.

How many 72 year old millionaires are so energetic that they go
to work because they like working? How many 72 years old
millionaires who can ride to work in a limo if they feel like it walk
because they're in good enough health that the prefer walking?
Te fact that he was on that sidewalk to smash his head says
much about his health the day he fell.

On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 16:57:25 -0500, "Amanda" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I think they just changed it in the new year. I just started in december,
and I clearly remember it being 3 on the site and 3 in the book.

The book I have says 3 and that is what I was going by
but it sure will be nice to have that extra cup of veggies. :-)