What defines a cyclepath.

Mark Stammers said:

Are cyclepaths like right of ways where they are defined on maps and
exist even if there is no obvious markings (across a field for
instance)? Or do they require the existance of marks on the pavement
to give them legal force?

They don't need marks on the pavement, or signage on the lampposts; they
exist regardless, provided that the appropriate authority has gone
through the procedure of making the route legal to cycle upon.

Having said that, it might take some explaining to police officers /
officious self-important city council "ambassadors" / irate members of
the public who may not know about the route, so an initially gentle prod
at the council to remind them to reinstate the markings would be my
first suggestion.

R.

Andy Howes said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does NOT
use the mandatory ones !).

AH
Driving Instructor
Leicester

There is currently NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT for a cyclists to use ANY
cycle path - regardless of the type of sign used. There are certain
roads on which cyclists are not permitted, and as such a cyclepath
may be the only option, but there are no cyclepaths where their use is
compulsory. A mandatory cycle-lane keeps cars out - not bikes in.

The local cycling policeman is quite within his rights to choose not
to use a cyclepath, and it is very rare for the road along which the
cyclepath runs to have a cycles-ban.

I would have expected a driving instructor to know this.

--
If, as Einstein said, space is curved and occupies ten
dimensions including time; How can you be certain which
is the underneath of a ladder? And how can you be certain
you haven't already walked under one next week?

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does NOT
use the mandatory ones !).

AH
Driving Instructor
Leicester
"Richard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Stammers said:

Are cyclepaths like right of ways where they are defined on maps and
exist even if there is no obvious markings (across a field for
instance)? Or do they require the existance of marks on the pavement
to give them legal force?

They don't need marks on the pavement, or signage on the lampposts; they
exist regardless, provided that the appropriate authority has gone through
the procedure of making the route legal to cycle upon.

Having said that, it might take some explaining to police officers /
officious self-important city council "ambassadors" / irate members of the
public who may not know about the route, so an initially gentle prod at
the council to remind them to reinstate the markings would be my first
suggestion.

R.

"Andy Howes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle

path.

Quoted message said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

Anybody remember a Professor Branestawm story when he got out of the train
and saw the sign "Passengers MUST cross the line by the footbridge"?

Quoted message said:

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does

NOT

Quoted message said:

use the mandatory ones !).

Did he correct you? Or are there now two people going around with the wrong
idea?

Quoted message said:

AH
Driving Instructor

Possibly time to look at the cycling section of the HC? When you have, you
can point out to us where your misunderstanding lay.

I really hope you're not teaching your students that cyclists must use
cyclepaths...

cheers,
clive

Quoted message said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

Err. *beep* wrong. There is no requirement whatsoever for a cyclist to have to
use any cycle path. Please acquaint yourself with the Highway Code. All it says
is that (rule 46) "Use cycle routes when practicable. They can make your
journey safer." There is no *MUST* - so there is no law requiring cyclists to
have to use a cycle path.

The circular sign merely means the cycle lane is to be used by pedal cycles
only, i.e. not by cars, not by pedestrians... It is not a requirement that
cyclists must use it...

The rectangular sign is simply a recommended cycle route.

Cheers, helen s

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Quoted message said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

Is the wrong answer...

Quoted message said:

AH
Driving Instructor
Leicester

I'm glad I'm not getting instructions from you!

Cheers, helen s

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Andy Howes said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does NOT
use the mandatory ones !).

AH
Driving Instructor

Perhaps you should take the time to read the Highway Code?

Andy Howes said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

If it is circular then the path MUST NOT be used by motor vehicles.
Cyclists can choose to use it al will.

Quoted message said:

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does NOT
use the mandatory ones !).

Ahhh... I know the sort of person you are - leaning out of car
windows, "Gerr off moi road".

Quoted message said:

AH
Driving Instructor

Not one who knows the rules of the road, then.

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Howes said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used.

If it is circular then the path MUST NOT be used by motor vehicles.
Cyclists can choose to use it al will.

Quoted message said:

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does

NOT

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use the mandatory ones !).

Ahhh... I know the sort of person you are - leaning out of car
windows, "Gerr off moi road".

Quoted message said:

AH
Driving Instructor

Not one who knows the rules of the road, then.

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

Compulsory for what? If bike lane 'X' is compulsory, who must use it?

There is only such compulsion, and that is on paths with a cyclist bit and a
pedestrian bit - cyclists must use the cyclist bit. This sign only covers
that path - if they're somewhere else (eg the road next to it), the
compulsion doesn't apply.

cheers,
clive

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:59:08 -0000, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Howes said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used.

If it is circular then the path MUST NOT be used by motor vehicles.
Cyclists can choose to use it al will.

Quoted message said:

I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who does

NOT

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use the mandatory ones !).

Ahhh... I know the sort of person you are - leaning out of car
windows, "Gerr off moi road".

Quoted message said:

AH
Driving Instructor

Not one who knows the rules of the road, then.

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

So is a red triangle containing a bicycle symbol a warning to cyclists
or a warning to motorists that bicycles may be around?

It is compulsory that motorists stay out of blue circle cycle lanes.

"Clive George" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"MartinM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

Compulsory for what? If bike lane 'X' is compulsory, who must use it?

There is only such compulsion, and that is on paths with a cyclist bit and

a

Quoted message said:

pedestrian bit - cyclists must use the cyclist bit. This sign only covers
that path - if they're somewhere else (eg the road next to it), the
compulsion doesn't apply.

Yes just checked the HC website, an oblong sign means recommended bike route
like the NCN even though it may be on a public road; the blue circle means
bikes only (but not compulsory). But there used to be compulsory cycle
/moped lanes alongside some A roads.

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 21:59:08 -0000, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:04:29 GMT, "Andy Howes"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

>If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is

rectangular

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that

MAY

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be

Quoted message said:

>used.

If it is circular then the path MUST NOT be used by motor vehicles.
Cyclists can choose to use it al will.

>I've just had to point that out to the local cycling policeman (who

does

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

NOT

Quoted message said:

>use the mandatory ones !).

Ahhh... I know the sort of person you are - leaning out of car
windows, "Gerr off moi road".

>AH
>Driving Instructor

Not one who knows the rules of the road, then.

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

So is a red triangle containing a bicycle symbol a warning to cyclists
or a warning to motorists that bicycles may be around?

a warning to motorists e.g. on approaching NCN crossings, much like the
children and deer ones. (the same signs are now recommended for warning of
TTs as well)

MartinM said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

If you mean this:
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/sign071.shtml

then the meaning (as described here:
http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.shtml) is of course "pedal cycles
only", not "every pedal cycle must use this route"

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:04:29 GMT someone who may be "Andy Howes"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used.

Incorrect.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs04.shtml

Which part of, "Route to be used by pedal cycles only", do you have
difficulty understanding?

Quoted message said:

Driving Instructor

Not a very good driving instructor.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

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Andy Howes said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle path.

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY be
used.

According to your logic, the sign indicating a one-way-street (as
opposed to "Ahead Only"😉 is also merely advisory, and I can if I so
wish travel in both directions.

Do you teach your pupils this too?

Do we need to inform you of the difference between the signs for "No
Vehicles" and "No Motor Vehicles", or are you okay on this one?

YAPSAICMFP

ps Thank god the sign for "Hump Bridge" isn't in a circle!

--
If, as Einstein said, space is curved and occupies ten
dimensions including time; How can you be certain which
is the underneath of a ladder? And how can you be certain
you haven't already walked under one next week?

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Howes said:

One point you might have overlooked is the sign designating the cycle

path.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If it is circular then the path MUST be used. If the sign is rectangular
then it is merely advising one of the presence of a cycle path that MAY

be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

used.

According to your logic, the sign indicating a one-way-street (as
opposed to "Ahead Only"😉 is also merely advisory, and I can if I so
wish travel in both directions.

Do you teach your pupils this too?

Do we need to inform you of the difference between the signs for "No
Vehicles" and "No Motor Vehicles", or are you okay on this one?

YAPSAICMFP

ps Thank god the sign for "Hump Bridge" isn't in a circle!

confused? you will be;

http://www.cyclemaps.org.uk/sites/lbbd/signs/

CYCLE LANES
These can be either mandatory or advisory.
Mandatory lanes are lanes approved and designed as compulsory for cyclists.
The road markings are distinctively solid white lines, whereas advisory
cycle lanes are marked with broken white lines. On advisory lanes other road
users can drive into them if necessary and may be allowed to park in them at
certain times. As there is a lot of parking in cycle lanes in the Borough,
consideration is being given to introducing appropriate waiting and loading
restrictions where necessary.

The existing red surface colour is to be changed to a green surface colour
throughout the Borough, to distinguish cycle lanes from bus lanes, as part
of a London wide approach

I know it mentions lanes and keeps the HC sign definitions but does this
mean you are not allowed out of the green stripe? what about when it is used
as a car park?

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:19:13 -0000, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"Gonzalez" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So is a red triangle containing a bicycle symbol a warning to cyclists
or a warning to motorists that bicycles may be around?

Quoted message said:

a warning to motorists e.g. on approaching NCN crossings, much like the
children and deer ones. (the same signs are now recommended for warning of
TTs as well)

It is of course also a warning to on-road cyclists that they may be
about to meet some more cyclists using a psyclepath ahead. These
"pathogens" may be suddenly surprised by the sudden ending of their
path in an obscure and dangerous place that there may be a risk of
collision.

--
If, as Einstein said, space is curved and occupies ten
dimensions including time; How can you be certain which
is the underneath of a ladder? And how can you be certain
you haven't already walked under one next week?

Quoted message said:

Mandatory lanes are lanes approved and designed as compulsory for cyclists.

Then they got it wrong, bonnie lad. They are *not* compulsory in terms of
cyclists must use them they are compulsory in terms that they are only for
cyclists. There's a *huge* difference...

perhaps you think all motorists should use motorwarys where they are present???

Cheers, helen s

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