What defines a cyclepath.

"MartinM" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

CYCLE LANES
These can be either mandatory or advisory.
Mandatory lanes are lanes approved and designed as compulsory for cyclists.

As other posters have pointed out, no lane is compulsory for cyclists
unless cycling is prohibited in the road.

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The road markings are distinctively solid white lines,

This *just* means non-cyclists _must_ keep out...

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whereas advisory
cycle lanes are marked with broken white lines. On advisory lanes other road
users can drive into them if necessary and may be allowed to park in them at
certain times. As there is a lot of parking in cycle lanes in the Borough,
consideration is being given to introducing appropriate waiting and loading
restrictions where necessary.

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The existing red surface colour is to be changed to a green surface colour
throughout the Borough, to distinguish cycle lanes from bus lanes, as part
of a London wide approach

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I know it mentions lanes and keeps the HC sign definitions but does this
mean you are not allowed out of the green stripe?

Nay, nay and three times nay!

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what about when it is used as a car park?

<irony>
It is quite in order to cycle over the tops of parked cars when they
obstruct your legitimate use of a cycle lane.
<irony>

Quite. You are often better off in the main carriageway.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Quoted message said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

Please check again - the blue circle cycle lanes path is that it is a cycle
path compulsory for cycle *use* only and for motor vehicles & peds to not use
the path. Which is completely different to cyclists being required to use the
path, which they are not.

Cheers, helen s

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"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by shape and
colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time ago)

Please check again - the blue circle cycle lanes path is that it is a

cycle

Quoted message said:

path compulsory for cycle *use* only and for motor vehicles & peds to not

use

Quoted message said:

the path. Which is completely different to cyclists being required to use

the

Quoted message said:

path, which they are not.

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory, which I think
is where the cager line "get on the psyclepath where you are supposed to be"
comes from.

perhaps you think all motorists should use motorways where they are
present???

it would certainly leave the other roads with less traffic, in fact almost
all A road signs now direct drivers via the motorways.

The DoT seems to; those gizmo signs never actaully advise drivers to leave
at the next junction when there is a 12 mile tailback coming up. My car's
bible is a map of the M25 with all the parallel roads

On 13 Nov 2004 09:49:49 GMT someone who may be
[email hidden] (dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers) wrote
this:-

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Then they got it wrong, bonnie lad. They are *not* compulsory in terms of
cyclists must use them they are compulsory in terms that they are only for
cyclists. There's a *huge* difference...

Indeed. Perhaps the authors of the site also think that bus drivers
must keep in a bus lane marked with a solid white line.

I hope those in or near the area will give them some feedback. They
also tell cyclists to always wear plastic hats.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

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MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory, which I think
is where the cager line "get on the psyclepath where you are supposed to be"
comes from.

On which planet was that? There is no such thing as a compulsory road that
you have to use (the logic behind such a thing immediately makes transport
unworkable [1]). There are roads where only certain classes of vehicles are
allowed. These are indicated either in the negative (banning the other
types) or the affirmative (only allowing certain types). The two types are
distinguished by the colour. White border, blue background is an affirmative
sign, red circle white background is a negative.

...d

[1] If you have to use a cycle path does that mean that you cannot leave it
(because you would then not be using it which would be against the rule
indicating that you must use it)? Or does it mean that whatever form of
transport you are using then you have to get on a bike and use the path? Or
does it mean that you may not go anywhere but where the compulsory path
goes? To whom does it apply? Must I travel from Scotland to use a path in
Cornwall because it is compulsory for cycles to use it?

MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory...

No they weren't.

"David Martin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory, which I

think

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

is where the cager line "get on the psyclepath where you are supposed to

be"

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

comes from.

On which planet was that? There is no such thing as a compulsory road that
you have to use (the logic behind such a thing immediately makes transport
unworkable [1]). There are roads where only certain classes of vehicles

are

Quoted message said:

allowed. These are indicated either in the negative (banning the other
types) or the affirmative (only allowing certain types). The two types are
distinguished by the colour. White border, blue background is an

affirmative

Quoted message said:

sign, red circle white background is a negative.

..d

[1] If you have to use a cycle path does that mean that you cannot leave

it

Quoted message said:

(because you would then not be using it which would be against the rule
indicating that you must use it)? Or does it mean that whatever form of
transport you are using then you have to get on a bike and use the path?

Or

Quoted message said:

does it mean that you may not go anywhere but where the compulsory path
goes? To whom does it apply? Must I travel from Scotland to use a path in
Cornwall because it is compulsory for cycles to use it?

I didn't write the HC, will see if I can dig out an old copy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Indeed. Perhaps the authors of the site also think that bus drivers
must keep in a bus lane marked with a solid white line.

I hope those in or near the area will give them some feedback. They
also tell cyclists to always wear plastic hats.

There is a very easy way to tell the owners of the site that they got it wrong.

The web site at

http://www.cyclemaps.org.uk/sites/lbbd/signs/

which gives the wrong information is copyright to the London Borough of Barking
& Dagenham.

Said Borough can be contacted by a feedback form at

http://www.barking-dagenham.gov.uk/9-council/complaints-form.html

Shouldn't take too long to politely tell them they are putting out incorrect
information about cycling ;-)

Cheers, helen s

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MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory

I don't believe they ever have been, although it does seem to be a
popular belief. If you have any documentary evidence of their compulsory
nature, I'd be interested in seeing it.

James
--
If I have seen further than others, it is
by treading on the toes of giants.
http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory

I don't believe they ever have been, although it does seem to be a
popular belief. If you have any documentary evidence of their compulsory
nature, I'd be interested in seeing it.

I'm going back to the 70's here when the only ones that existed were eg the
one on the Severn Bridge, and alongside A roads like the A23 and A217, but I
remember the blue circle and in those days that meant compulsory, eg mimimum
speed signs (do you still see them?)
will keep looking, the copy of the HC is the green backed one if that helps.
But I agree the plethora (and in some cases downright stupidity) of cycle
lanes now makes it ludicrous to enforce using them

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:14:14 -0000, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

http://www.cyclemaps.org.uk/sites/lbbd/signs/

CYCLE LANES
These can be either mandatory or advisory.

So far, so good.

Quoted message said:

Mandatory lanes are lanes approved and designed as compulsory for cyclists.

Oops! Incorrect. "Mandatory" refers to motor vehicles keeping out, not
human powered ones staying in.

--
Dave...

Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live. - Mark Twain

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by
shape and colour:

Red triangle- Warning
Red circle Prohibition
Blue circle Compulsion

and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time
ago)

Please check again - the blue circle cycle lanes path is that it is a

cycle

Quoted message said:

path compulsory for cycle *use* only and for motor vehicles & peds to
not

use

Quoted message said:

the path. Which is completely different to cyclists being required to
use

the

Quoted message said:

path, which they are not.

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory, which I
think is where the cager line "get on the psyclepath where you are
supposed to be" comes from.

Is that the 1880s? Cyclepaths haven't been compulsory in the UK in my
lifetime.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'Victories are not solutions.'
;; John Hume, Northern Irish politician, on Radio Scotland 1/2/95
;; Nobel Peace Prize laureate 1998; few have deserved it so much

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

confused? you will be;

http://www.cyclemaps.org.uk/sites/lbbd/signs/

CYCLE LANES
These can be either mandatory or advisory.
Mandatory lanes are lanes approved and designed as compulsory for
cyclists. The road markings are distinctively solid white lines,
whereas advisory cycle lanes are marked with broken white lines. On
advisory lanes other road users can drive into them if necessary and
may be allowed to park in them at certain times. As there is a lot of
parking in cycle lanes in the Borough, consideration is being given to
introducing appropriate waiting and loading restrictions where
necessary.

Shame the people who wrote that didn't bother to read the Highway Code
first, they could have saved themselves a lot of embarrassment. Hint:
it's rule 49.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:15:33 -0000, "MartinM" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

"James Annan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory

I don't believe they ever have been, although it does seem to be a
popular belief. If you have any documentary evidence of their compulsory
nature, I'd be interested in seeing it.

I'm going back to the 70's here when the only ones that existed were eg the
one on the Severn Bridge, and alongside A roads like the A23 and A217, but I
remember the blue circle and in those days that meant compulsory, eg mimimum
speed signs (do you still see them?)
will keep looking, the copy of the HC is the green backed one if that helps.
But I agree the plethora (and in some cases downright stupidity) of cycle
lanes now makes it ludicrous to enforce using them

They were never compulsory.

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 14:05:08 GMT, Simon Brooke <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, MartinM

(') said:

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email hidden]> wrote
in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

>the (ahem) last time I looked at the HC it categorised signs by
>shape and colour:
>
>Red triangle- Warning
>Red circle Prohibition
>Blue circle Compulsion
>
>and blue circle bike lanes were compulsory (but that was along time
>ago)

Please check again - the blue circle cycle lanes path is that it is a

cycle

Quoted message said:

path compulsory for cycle *use* only and for motor vehicles & peds to
not

use

Quoted message said:

the path. Which is completely different to cyclists being required to
use

the

Quoted message said:

path, which they are not.

Yes I know that but certainly early 80's they were compulsory, which I
think is where the cager line "get on the psyclepath where you are
supposed to be" comes from.

Is that the 1880s? Cyclepaths haven't been compulsory in the UK in my
lifetime.

Possibly excepting the Severn Bridge cycle path - although you could
go the long way round or pop your bike on the train and go under the
water.

Gonzalez <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is that the 1880s? Cyclepaths haven't been compulsory in the UK in my
lifetime.

Nor mine. CTC fought long and hard on that one.

Quoted message said:

Possibly excepting the Severn Bridge cycle path - although you could
go the long way round or pop your bike on the train and go under the
water.

Yebbut the adjacent road is a motorway, innit?

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

MartinM said:

I'm going back to the 70's here when the only ones that existed were eg the
one on the Severn Bridge, and alongside A roads like the A23 and A217, but I
remember the blue circle and in those days that meant compulsory, eg mimimum
speed signs (do you still see them?)

I'm with the others: I don't think it ever was compulsory, blue circular
sign notwithstanding.

--
Guy

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

MartinM said:

I'm going back to the 70's here when the only ones that existed were eg

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one on the Severn Bridge, and alongside A roads like the A23 and A217,

but I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

remember the blue circle and in those days that meant compulsory, eg

mimimum

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

speed signs (do you still see them?)

I'm with the others: I don't think it ever was compulsory, blue circular
sign notwithstanding.

well unless I can find the copy of the HC I had when I was taking my driving
test (1979) we will never know

MartinM said:

unless I can find the copy of the HC I had when I was taking my driving
test (1979) we will never know

It is just possible I still have one of that vintage.

--
Guy

MartinM said:

unless I can find the copy of the HC I had when I was taking my driving
test (1979) we will never know

It is just possible I still have one of that vintage.

--
Guy