Lakes death

Peewiglet said:

It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
falling to his death not far away.

http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/article.asp?pid=376&id=4190

"These are tragic situations when they occur. The man was only 26, is
somebody’s son and you’ve got to feel for the family."

Amen to that.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Following up to Phil Cook

Quoted message said:

"These are tragic situations when they occur. The man was only 26, is
somebody’s son and you’ve got to feel for the family."

yep, [censored] idea to get [censored], do drugs then climb Yewbarrow, but
then we all do stupid things. Yewbarrow isn't a particularly
forgiving mountain.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reids said:

yep, [censored] idea to get [censored], do drugs then climb Yewbarrow, but
then we all do stupid things.

Yes, not wishing to sound judgemental about these things, but I've never
thought that alcohol mixed particularly well with outdoor activities. I
usually prefer to stay sober when wild camping.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Quoted message said:

yep, [censored] idea to get [censored], do drugs then climb Yewbarrow...

A bit more than a '[censored] idea', I'd say. I would assign that tag to maybe
deciding to walk Helvellyn on a sunny August bank holiday. That's a
'[censored] idea', but what's the worst that can happen?

For what these guys did, how about 'Imbecilic, irresponsible, senseless
and so completely-stupid-that-it-had-fatal-consequences idea'?

One's killed himself, the others have probably screwed their lives up,
all will have put their families in a state of total anguish and yet
another mountain rescue scenario that could have been easily avoided.

This takes lack of responsibility in walking to yet another level of
complete ineptitude, with sadly and tragically predictable results.

Steve

Quoted message said:

Yes, not wishing to sound judgemental about these things, but I've never
thought that alcohol mixed particularly well with outdoor activities.

By all means be judgemental.

Alcohol + outdoor activities = Asking for trouble

These guys were on also on drugs. They were asking for trouble, and
trouble duly obliged.

Steve

Peewiglet said:

It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
falling to his death not far away.

Well that's life, as they say. Bad things happen all over the world all
the time. Does the fact that it happened close to you make it
different? Obviously it brings it closer to home, as it were, but if it
had happened in on a hill in Japan would it bother you as much? Would
you even know about it?

I was once very surprised to hear that someone had been murdered in the
street right outside the flats that I lived in, but somehow I couldn't
connect my experience of the place with that event. It never occurred
to me that something like that could ever happen there, and even after
it happened it still didn't seem possible. I never thought of it as
anything other than a safe place to live, and it never was dangerous for
me, even when coming home [censored] late at night.

Oh yeah, I just remembered something else, now you've sparked off my
memories. I once tried to climb Fan Brycheiniog with a friend in the
winter of 1986 I think, in a blizzard. We'd barely got half way to the
lake when I suddenly found myself waist deep in a snowdrift (there was
an awful lot of snow about). In spite of my earlier gung-ho optimism, I
decided that my friend's reservations about our "summit bid" were
probably worth paying attention to, so I reluctantly agreed to retreat
to safer ground.

A week later a Beacons park ranger died on the same mountain, in similar
conditions.

It's a funny old thing life, isn't it?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

The Reids said:

yep, [censored] idea to get [censored], do drugs then climb Yewbarrow, but
then we all do stupid things.

Yes, not wishing to sound judgemental about these things, but I've never
thought that alcohol mixed particularly well with outdoor activities. I
usually prefer to stay sober when wild camping.

I don't mind sounding judgmental at all; I'd much prefer the idiots
drank, did drugs, and climbed, rather than drank, did drugs, and drove
up and down the M6 (or any other road for that matter) - at least the
fatalities come in ones this way.

I'm (unreliably) informed that the person who drive their Freelander
into ~4' of water in Shropshire (at a ford) at ~1am last weekend, and
was found downstream drowned rather later, might not have been entirely
sober either. 8<,

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:52:20 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
| was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
| falling to his death not far away.
|
| http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/article.asp?pid=376&id=4190

We take risks, doing something which we enjoy.
There is no way these risks can be totally eliminated.
We answer the question "is the enjoyment worth the risk" literally with our
feet.

--
Dave F

Paul Saunders said:

Peewiglet wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
falling to his death not far away.

Quoted message said:

Well that's life, as they say. Bad things happen all over the world all
the time. Does the fact that it happened close to you make it
different? Obviously it brings it closer to home, as it were, but if it
had happened in on a hill in Japan would it bother you as much? Would
you even know about it?

I wouldn't know about it, and that's actually the thought that was
going through my mind when I read the article. Lives are inevitably so
compartmentalised that it's frequently difficult not to be unaware of
the bad - sometimes terminal - things happening to other people, often
in quite close physical proximity to us. The article simply reminded
me of that, quite forcibly.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Oh yeah, I just remembered something else, now you've sparked off my
memories. I once tried to climb Fan Brycheiniog with a friend in the
winter of 1986 I think, in a blizzard. We'd barely got half way to the
lake when I suddenly found myself waist deep in a snowdrift (there was
an awful lot of snow about). In spite of my earlier gung-ho optimism, I
decided that my friend's reservations about our "summit bid" were
probably worth paying attention to, so I reluctantly agreed to retreat
to safer ground.

Quoted message said:

A week later a Beacons park ranger died on the same mountain, in similar
conditions.

Quoted message said:

It's a funny old thing life, isn't it?

Precisely what I was thinking!

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peewiglet said:

It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
falling to his death not far away.

Well that's life, as they say. Bad things happen all over the world all
the time [........] I never thought of it as anything other than a safe
place to live [........]

50000 are killed in traffic each year in the EU.

Quoted message said:

Oh yeah, I just remembered something else, now you've sparked off my
memories. I once tried to climb Fan Brycheiniog with a friend in the
winter of 1986 I think, in a blizzard. We'd barely got half way to the
lake when I suddenly found myself waist deep in a snowdrift (there was
an awful lot of snow about). In spite of my earlier gung-ho optimism, I
decided that my friend's reservations about our "summit bid" were
probably worth paying attention to, so I reluctantly agreed to retreat
to safer ground.

A week later a Beacons park ranger died on the same mountain, in similar
conditions.

It's a funny old thing life, isn't it?

Some years ago I was walking in Coire Gabhail (Glen Coe). At reaching the
snowline I stopped, enjoyed the surroundings and went back down again. I
didn't have crampons and the slope to the col between Bidean nam Bian and
Stob Coire Sgreamhach is very steep. On my way back three young men were
going up. Two were properly dressed but one had jeans and trainers. At
reaching the entrance of Coire Gabhail I saw a rescuehelicopter flying in.
The next day I heard at the YH that a young man had slipped on the snow, hit
some rocks and died.

You don't have to be drunk and on drugs to do stupid things.

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
[email hidden](we'll.leave.the.house.and.read.the.mail)

Quoted message said:

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Quoted message said:

For what these guys did, how about 'Imbecilic, irresponsible, senseless
and so completely-stupid-that-it-had-fatal-consequences idea'?

One's killed himself, the others have probably screwed their lives up,
all will have put their families in a state of total anguish and yet
another mountain rescue scenario that could have been easily avoided.

This takes lack of responsibility in walking to yet another level of
complete ineptitude, with sadly and tragically predictable results.

Steve

Got to agree totally. We all need our 'escape' in life and for most on
this NG it is getting 'out there' away from civilisation. I find it
very sad that people have to rely on substances, be they drugs,
alcohol or whatever to get their kicks from life.
If these three men don't derrive sufficient pleasure just from being
in the midst of some of the most beautiful scenery to be found
anywhere, then what hollow lives they must lead. Besides that many
visitors to the lakes go there to get away from the urban bustle,
including exactly the sort of menace these idiots were bringing with
them.
Its almost impossible these days to escape to a beach resort without
your day on the sands being spoiled by ghetto blasters then the
evenings marred by youngsters off their faces through drugs and
alcohol.
PLEASE dont tell me this is coming to our beautiful, tranquil hills.
I don't wish to sound elitist, but if there was ever a way to
legislate for it, people like these should not be allowed anywhere
near the hills.
Oh dear, I almost sound like a GOML.

Steve

"Steve Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Its almost impossible these days to escape to a beach resort without
your day on the sands being spoiled by ghetto blasters then the
evenings marred by youngsters off their faces through drugs and
alcohol.
PLEASE dont tell me this is coming to our beautiful, tranquil hills.
I don't wish to sound elitist, but if there was ever a way to
legislate for it, people like these should not be allowed anywhere
near the hills.
Oh dear, I almost sound like a GOML.

If that makes you a GOML Steve, then count me in too. As well as "boring old
fart". Oh and don't get me started on litter and mobile phones.

Roy.

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"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Some years ago I was walking in Coire Gabhail (Glen Coe). At reaching the
snowline I stopped, enjoyed the surroundings and went back down again. I
didn't have crampons and the slope to the col between Bidean nam Bian and
Stob Coire Sgreamhach is very steep. On my way back three young men were >

going up. Two were properly dressed but one had jeans and trainers. At

Quoted message said:

reaching the entrance of Coire Gabhail I saw a rescuehelicopter flying in.
The next day I heard at the YH that a young man had slipped on the snow,

hit

Quoted message said:

some rocks and died.

You don't have to be drunk and on drugs to do stupid things.

Ah the dreaded jeans. Slips on snow are probably generally more to do with
lack of judgement, care and ice axe rather than choice of clothing for your
lower body.

Dave Fawthrop said:

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:52:20 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Quoted message said:

| It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
| was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
| falling to his death not far away.
|
| http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/article.asp?pid=376&id=4190

Quoted message said:

We take risks, doing something which we enjoy.
There is no way these risks can be totally eliminated.
We answer the question "is the enjoyment worth the risk" literally with our
feet.

The price we pay for knowing that something is dangerous is a few folk
getting killed. Getting drunk etc. and falling off a crag is a
well-established tradition, as is leaving a party and walking home in
the snow in a T-shirt, to be found dead next morning in the snow. Not
even to mention road deaths, or choking to death after starting to
speak with your mouth full.

And in the longer perspective the only reason we're as clever as we
are is the greater frequency with which more stupid people get
themselves killed. It's how life works. And there's a lot of luck
involved too. I'm lucky to be alive after some of the stupid things
I've done.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Following up to Paul Saunders

Quoted message said:

I
usually prefer to stay sober when wild camping.

I sometimes take a small flask over high proof rum as a nightcap,
but I certainly don't get [censored] or walk and drink, except on
lowland paths where the drinking is 90% of the reason for going.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Steve Jones

Quoted message said:

PLEASE dont tell me this is coming to our beautiful, tranquil hills.
I don't wish to sound elitist, but if there was ever a way to
legislate for it, people like these should not be allowed anywhere
near the hills.

How near? The Wasdale Head?
We already have legislation for what they did, it doesn't work of
course and never will. Better to keep legislation and the
criminals it attracts out of recreational drugs and let Darwins
law deal with those who mix the hills with drugs. A very small
number I suspect.
The first recorded example by the way was the early scrambler
Coleridge who liked to descend at random high on drugs I read:-

"I lay in a state of almost prophetic trance and delight -
and blessed God aloud, for the powers of reason and the will,
which remaining no danger can overpower us"

-on getting down Broad Stand, having got there by accident, using
mind over matter or some such loopy ideas
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Following up to Chris Street

Quoted message said:

A slight thread hijack here, but could I just insert the text of a letter I
posted yesterday. It should be fairly clear what the relevance is....

perhaps we should all write?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

yep, [censored] idea to get [censored], do drugs then climb Yewbarrow...

A bit more than a '[censored] idea', I'd say. I would assign that tag to maybe
deciding to walk Helvellyn on a sunny August bank holiday. That's a
'[censored] idea', but what's the worst that can happen?

For what these guys did, how about 'Imbecilic, irresponsible, senseless
and so completely-stupid-that-it-had-fatal-consequences idea'?

One's killed himself, the others have probably screwed their lives up,
all will have put their families in a state of total anguish and yet
another mountain rescue scenario that could have been easily avoided.

This takes lack of responsibility in walking to yet another level of
complete ineptitude, with sadly and tragically predictable results.

Steve

Harsh as it may sound, I have to echo Steve's comments. I get pi**ed
off when I get idiots with no idea what they're doing asking me for
directions on the felltops after the weather has closed in and they
don't have any form of navigation, let alone appropriate clothing. At
least they're not drunk or on drugs. To be up one of the fells in the
middle of the night when your buzzing on a Class A drug and drunk is,
quite frankly, pathetic behaviour. One of them is dead, the other two
have messed up their lives. I'm afraid they aren't getting much
sympathy from me. I do, however, feel for their families.

Their stupidity endangered the lives of the mountain rescue team. At
least they chose not to tear around the district's roads in a car,
endangering the lives of countless innocents.

We all make mistakes. However, not all of us decide it's a good idea
to travel up to the lake district with pack of ecstasy and a load of
alcohol, get [censored], pop the pills and climb a mountain in the dark.

I'm sorry if this post seems too righteous and moral, but there you
go, just my views on this incident. At least I know there's three
less idiots I'm likely to have the misfortune of bumping into when I'm
trying to enjoy myself on the fells.

Michael S

AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Some years ago I was walking in Coire Gabhail (Glen Coe). At reaching the
snowline I stopped, enjoyed the surroundings and went back down again. I
didn't have crampons and the slope to the col between Bidean nam Bian and
Stob Coire Sgreamhach is very steep. On my way back three young men were >

going up. Two were properly dressed but one had jeans and trainers. At

Quoted message said:

reaching the entrance of Coire Gabhail I saw a rescuehelicopter flying in.
The next day I heard at the YH that a young man had slipped on the snow,

hit

Quoted message said:

some rocks and died.

You don't have to be drunk and on drugs to do stupid things.

Ah the dreaded jeans. Slips on snow are probably generally more to do with
lack of judgement, care and ice axe rather than choice of clothing for your
lower body.

I wouldn't think that anyone who would carry an ice axe and know how to
use it would be wearing trainers and jeans in snow conditions. :-)
Wet jeans are a great way to get hypothermia.
--
Gordon