Lakes death

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Wet jeans are a great way to get hypothermia.

I don't actually believe that's as true as most people think. I appreciate
that wet cotton T shirts are a bad thing to be stuck in up a hill a long way
from a cosy fire but so long as my top half is warm and dry it doesn't make
much difference what is happening on my bottom half. Given the choice of a
hat and wet jeans or cosy dry fleece trousers and no hat I know which one
I'd pick if I had to spend a night out in the cold. At least that's the way
my body works, other people might be weird or did no one else pay attention
when they used to play in the snow as kids.

Following up to AndyP

Quoted message said:

I appreciate
that wet cotton T shirts are a bad thing to be stuck in up a hill a long way
from a cosy fire but so long as my top half is warm and dry it doesn't make
much difference what is happening on my bottom half.

I think top half *is* more important but what could be more
unpleasant than walking in cold clammy jeans that you know will
never dry, they even get wet even when its dry (with sweat).
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

Chris Street said:

Wet jeans are not really a problem if there is no wind, but given a dry
wind the amount of heat that is lost from evaporating the water can quickly
put someone in deep trouble.

And of course if you have an accident and have to stop moving, wet
jeans will lead to hypothermia extremely quickly :-(

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

A quarter of the bodies blood supply goes to the legs, and due to the fact
that most people have two, there is a large surface area to lose heat

from.

As soon as you start to get cold the body restricts the bloodflow to your
extremities to conserve heat for your brain and internal organs. So your
legs get a bit cold but the important bits stay warm exactly as a mechanism
to prevent hypothermia.

Following up to AndyP

Quoted message said:

So your
legs get a bit cold but the important bits stay warm exactly as a mechanism
to prevent hypothermia.

some of my favourite bits are in the legs region.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap

The Reids <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Following up to AndyP

Quoted message said:

I appreciate
that wet cotton T shirts are a bad thing to be stuck in up a hill a long way
from a cosy fire but so long as my top half is warm and dry it doesn't make
much difference what is happening on my bottom half.

I think top half *is* more important but what could be more
unpleasant than walking in cold clammy jeans that you know will
never dry, they even get wet even when its dry (with sweat).

And they are HEAVY!
--
Gordon

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Some years ago I was walking in Coire Gabhail (Glen Coe). At reaching the
snowline I stopped, enjoyed the surroundings and went back down again. I
didn't have crampons and the slope to the col between Bidean nam Bian and
Stob Coire Sgreamhach is very steep. On my way back three young men were

Quoted message said:

going up. Two were properly dressed but one had jeans and trainers. At

Quoted message said:

reaching the entrance of Coire Gabhail I saw a rescuehelicopter flying
in.
The next day I heard at the YH that a young man had slipped on the snow,

hit

Quoted message said:

some rocks and died.

You don't have to be drunk and on drugs to do stupid things.

Ah the dreaded jeans. Slips on snow are probably generally more to do
with
lack of judgement, care and ice axe rather than choice of clothing for
your
lower body.

It's not the jeans, it's the trainers he was wearing. Ever tried walking on
icy snow with trainers. Horizontally is difficult, let alone going steep up.
His friends had waterproof clothings and good boots. Clearly a case of :
"We're going hillwalking. Want to join us ?" "But I never..." "It's easy.
Come on. Are you chicken ?"

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net
[email hidden](we'll.leave.the.house.and.read.the.mail)

The Reids <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Following up to AndyP

Quoted message said:

So your
legs get a bit cold but the important bits stay warm exactly as a mechanism
to prevent hypothermia.

some of my favourite bits are in the legs region.

LOL!
--
Gordon

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As soon as you start to get cold the body restricts the bloodflow to

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

extremities to conserve heat for your brain and internal organs. So

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

legs get a bit cold but the important bits stay warm exactly as a

mechanism

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to prevent hypothermia.

Quoted message said:

Havn't you just described the first stage of hypothermia.....

Only for people with a particularly pessimistic outlook on life. Taking an
extreme situation, high altitude mountaineeers' extremities can get so cold
the flesh freezes and they suffer frostbite without suffering hypothermia.

"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not the jeans, it's the trainers he was wearing. Ever tried walking

on

Quoted message said:

icy snow with trainers.

Ofcourse, but I wouldn't to get into a "trainers are ok in snow" argument
this time of night.

AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Havn't you just described the first stage of hypothermia.....

Only for people with a particularly pessimistic outlook on life. Taking an
extreme situation, high altitude mountaineeers' extremities can get so cold
the flesh freezes and they suffer frostbite without suffering hypothermia.

That's reassuring.......
--
Gordon

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only for people with a particularly pessimistic outlook on life. Taking

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

extreme situation, high altitude mountaineeers' extremities can get so

cold

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the flesh freezes and they suffer frostbite without suffering

hypothermia.

Quoted message said:

That's reassuring.......

Don't forget your down jacket when you pop out to Tescos and you'll be ok.
(Why do they choose to refrigerate the whole chilled section these days
including the aisles rather than just the food cabinets?)

AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not the jeans, it's the trainers he was wearing. Ever tried walking

on

Quoted message said:

icy snow with trainers.

Ofcourse, but I wouldn't to get into a "trainers are ok in snow" argument
this time of night.

One day, when I've nothing to do, I'll sit down and work out the typical
urw walker.

Any colour of socks except red.
Drab clothing.
Two walking poles.
Trainers or sandals and jeans.
No map case.
No bobble hat.
No GPS.
23 year old 1:50,000 map.
Magnetic compass.
Always walks alone.
Sets off after dusk.
No torch.
Plenty of cameras.
Heavy tripod.
Backpack large enough to give silhouette of giant Ninja Turtle.
Attached:
Argos Tent.
Ice axe.
Snow shoes or skis.
Short length of frayed rope ("in case I want to look at a bit of rock"😉.
Belling double-oven cooker.......
--
Gordon

On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 00:24:18 +0000, Gordon <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"theo" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It's not the jeans, it's the trainers he was wearing. Ever tried walking

on

Quoted message said:

icy snow with trainers.

Ofcourse, but I wouldn't to get into a "trainers are ok in snow" argument
this time of night.

One day, when I've nothing to do, I'll sit down and work out the typical
urw walker.

Any colour of socks except red.
Drab clothing.
Two walking poles.
Trainers or sandals and jeans.
No map case.
No bobble hat.
No GPS.
23 year old 1:50,000 map.
Magnetic compass.
Always walks alone.
Sets off after dusk.
No torch.
Plenty of cameras.
Heavy tripod.
Backpack large enough to give silhouette of giant Ninja Turtle.
Attached:
Argos Tent.
Ice axe.
Snow shoes or skis.
Short length of frayed rope ("in case I want to look at a bit of rock"😉.
Belling double-oven cooker.......

A couple of 6 packs

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

(Michael S) said:

I'm sorry if this post seems too righteous and moral,

Nope. Morality ain't at issue here. In context, you're expressing
simple common sense, not morality.

Peter.

On Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:20:33 +0000, Chris Street
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Excellent letter - I'll write too.

I've left the letter unsnipped underneath, in case anyone missed your
original post.

[...]

Quoted message said:

British Telecommunications plc,
81 Newgate Street,
London,
EC1A 7AJ

Dear British Telecom.

I am writing to you concerning the BT telephone kiosk which is stationed at
Cockley Beck in the Lake District, at grid reference NY247016. It is my
understanding that BT have decided that this telephone box is not required
and consequently it is to be removed.

While I assume on economic grounds the kiosk makes no money for BT and it¢s
removal would be justified on economic grounds, I would like to ask BT to
look a little further than this. The telephone box is situation on a remote
road junction in a much used part of the Lake District. There are no other
phone boxes for several miles, and to reach them a difficult mountain pass
has to be crossed which is often closed to vehicles. Owing to the local
geography, mobile telephones and VHF radio¢s do not work at this location,
and this is almost certainly not going to change.

The kiosk is used regularly for reporting to the 999 services such events
as road accidents, walkers/climbers in trouble, and for use by the mountain
and fire rescue services when attending an incident. It has been used
several times in the last few weeks for such events. In the early 1990¢s it
was found to be the most reliable means of communication when organising
resuce of a crashed RAF helicopter. Closure of the kiosk is also opposed by
the local mountain rescue service that covers this area. If this kiosk were
removed the time needed to raise the alarm would increase by at least 20
minutes assuming a vehicle can get over Hardknott Pass, and on foot it
would increase by at least an hour.

I cannot argue with BT¢s commercial motives as I have said before. I would
however ask that you consider the information above in reaching your
decision on the future of this kiosk. It serves a useful purpose, it
requires much less maintenance than town centre boxes, due to it¢s low
usage and non-existant vandalism, and it may just help save the odd life.

Yours faithfully,

If you think you may need to use this phone box, or indeed others in the
Lakes/Snowdonia/Moors etc, please start writing......

Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \

AndyP <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Only for people with a particularly pessimistic outlook on life. Taking

an

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

extreme situation, high altitude mountaineeers' extremities can get so

cold

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the flesh freezes and they suffer frostbite without suffering

hypothermia.

Quoted message said:

That's reassuring.......

Don't forget your down jacket when you pop out to Tescos and you'll be ok.
(Why do they choose to refrigerate the whole chilled section these days
including the aisles rather than just the food cabinets?)

Ha ha!
I have had some harrowing trips to the supermarket in T shirt and
shorts.
--
Gordon

"Gordon" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Don't forget your down jacket when you pop out to Tescos and you'll be

ok.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

(Why do they choose to refrigerate the whole chilled section these days
including the aisles rather than just the food cabinets?)

Quoted message said:

Ha ha!
I have had some harrowing trips to the supermarket in T shirt and
shorts.

GPS is also essential ofcourse in the really big ones for locating your
favourite biscuits. (Well, it would be if they didn't keep shifting
everything about).

"AndyP" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

GPS is also essential ofcourse in the really big ones for locating your
favourite biscuits. (Well, it would be if they didn't keep shifting
everything about).

Oh, I've just realised they don't work indoors do they? (Crappy, useless
technology) Or do they? I'm sure someone here can tell me.

"Peewiglet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
: It was shocking to come across this just now, and to realise that as I
: was struggling to sleep in my Akto last Friday night a young man was
: falling to his death not far away.
:
: http://www.tgomagazine.co.uk/article.asp?pid=376&id=4190
:
:
: Best wishes,
: --
: ,,
: (**)PeeWiglet~~
: / \ / \
See www.wasdale-mountain-rescue.org.uk/ for a report of this incident.
Bob